They are not real collectivists. In name only, because they only like the part about TAkING but not the part about GiVING. It is why leftist policies and socialism don't wotk
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought collectivists meant that its all about the collective taking supremacy over individual sovereignty. Because its runs contrary to the structure and design of the universe, it inevitably leads to failure and problems.
The universe, and human beings, were created on the principle of individual sovereignty. Each of us has individual responsibility and accountability for how to conduct our lives, which includes the freedom to choose and create, subject to moral limitations (e.g. not to infringe on the rights of others).
To my mind, that means 'real collectivists' means exactly what these people are. Just like the fallacy of "that's not real communism", because communism is exactly what it has manifested in various forms. Real communism is the one that murders hundreds of millions of people through democide and genocide.
The actual meaning of collectivism should be a structure that promotes community, social support, cooperation and collaboration, group harmony, stronger family ties, etc
But we know the globohomos have divided society, broken the family unit, installed multiple levels of tribalism, and pretty much insured society is a survival game with impossible odds.
I think post Q we will see true collectivism, the individual will prosper more than ever because we are on the same page and the rifts of division are closed
I don't know if one can simply redefine what 'the actual meaning of collectivism should be', because the term is a label used to describe something already existing.
But I think the direction of the thinking you are going in makes sense. I just don't know if I'd call it collectivism.
From a spiritual/philosophical perspective, we can see that humanity lost the track at some point and began a dysfunctional existence, unlike the rest of creation.
Religions and some philosophies describe the event or origins of that dysfunction each in their own limited ways.
But I think if there is one thing that defines and describes the dysfunction at its core, it's the emergence of unnatural conflict within the individual, and everything that stems from the individual, aka the family, society, nation and world.
Human beings experience conflict between their mind and body. The conscience prompts us to live in what it understands to be the 'right way', but has there ever been anyone who lived 100% according to the dictates of their conscience?
The conflict within human beings mind/body originaes in a separation between God (cause) and man (effect). This happens because all creation is designed to operate and exist through the harmonious relationship between subject (that which initiates and directs) and object (that which responds and realizes).
The fundamental breakdown occurred at a critical point when humanity decided to make itself subject to the true subject God. Instead of harmonious cooperation, you now have conflict. That conflict then infected all our relationships, including between man and woman, parents and children, families and families, societies and societies.
We also lost the harmonious relationship between our dual purposes. All created beings have a dual purpose: the purpose they have to contribute and add to the 'whole', and the purpose they have for self-existence and maintenance. Purpose of the whole, and purpose of the individual should be in harmony.
Which is subject? Which is object? The purpose of the whole is subject - living for something greater than ourselves is the way of existence. A bug exists not only to reproduce, but to be food for a bird, birds exist not only to live and reproduce, but to provide beauty to us and food for higher orders of animals. And so on.
In the dysfunctional world we live in, people have an ingrained tendency to put their own individual purpose first, as the priority, rather than serving the whole. The spirit of sacrifice is the opposite of this, and that's why all viable religious faiths emphasize service to others.
The point is, at some point, these two need to come back into alignment and create a harmonious relationship, where the purpose of the whole is aligned with the purpose of the individual. Thus, naturally, the higher orders or dimensions of human existence - family, society, nation, world, etc - reinforce and secure the purpose of the individual (i.e. through true freedom) and the individual (or lower levels of existence) harmonious support and contribute to the purpose of the whole.
Harmony.
Communism etc (i.e various forms of 'collectivism' in its current usage) are lies created to deceive human beings, by promising the intuitively longed for 'harmony of individual and whole (aka the collective)', but deliver the opposite; enslavement of the individual AND the whole to an evil malign force. At its root its satanic.
People have been seduced by the lies of communism and globalism, etc, because intuitively we ALL long for and design a unity between individual and whole, where freedom, justice, love and prosperity are secured. But Marx's theories were lies, and ultimately the ONLY way for humanity to move towards fulfilling that innate desire is to resolve a) the conflict between God and man (aka what religion calls a state of being in 'sin') and on that foundation b) the conflict between: husband + wife, parents and children, families and families, community and community, etc.
Whether one is religious or not, this truth cannot be avoided. The source of conflict in the world is found in the inner conflict within each human being. Religions are humanity's path to resolving that conflict on the internal level. However, in the modern era, the limitations of religious thought have all manifest, as we learn more and more about our material universe.
The unavoidable conclusion is that humanity needs a serious 'religious' upgrade, where the question of our existence, why the universe exists, how it is designed to function, including both spiritual and material realms, what was the cause of the breakdown historically, and how that breakdown can ultimately be finally reversed, so that both individual and the collective can be liberated to fulfill their original roles and functions in harmony.
All of this is really just another way to say (I think) exactly what you are saying, "the individual will prosper more than ever because we are on the same page and the rifts of division are closed" but I've tried to make the argument that the key to this is fundamentally a spiritual one, because the cause of conflict did not start with the communists or the globalists; they simply exploited and worked to increase it.
All the major religions predicted the return of their founder in some manner, to bring about the resolution of the path the faith teaches, to usher in the 'final resolution' to the issue of human conflict, suffering and ignorance.
If you ask me, that's really where we are today. It's not a coincidence that biblicly, it was "2000" years between Adam and Abraham, then 2000 recorded years from Abraham to Jesus, and we are here, today, 2000 years from the time of Jesus.
I cite this example because Christian faith and history are the central one in terms of religions. Jesus teaching outstrips all the others in terms of its moral highness, and in terms of seeking to rebuild the relationship between God (cause) and humanity (effect).
They are not real collectivists. In name only, because they only like the part about TAkING but not the part about GiVING. It is why leftist policies and socialism don't wotk
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought collectivists meant that its all about the collective taking supremacy over individual sovereignty. Because its runs contrary to the structure and design of the universe, it inevitably leads to failure and problems.
The universe, and human beings, were created on the principle of individual sovereignty. Each of us has individual responsibility and accountability for how to conduct our lives, which includes the freedom to choose and create, subject to moral limitations (e.g. not to infringe on the rights of others).
To my mind, that means 'real collectivists' means exactly what these people are. Just like the fallacy of "that's not real communism", because communism is exactly what it has manifested in various forms. Real communism is the one that murders hundreds of millions of people through democide and genocide.
The actual meaning of collectivism should be a structure that promotes community, social support, cooperation and collaboration, group harmony, stronger family ties, etc
But we know the globohomos have divided society, broken the family unit, installed multiple levels of tribalism, and pretty much insured society is a survival game with impossible odds.
I think post Q we will see true collectivism, the individual will prosper more than ever because we are on the same page and the rifts of division are closed
I don't know if one can simply redefine what 'the actual meaning of collectivism should be', because the term is a label used to describe something already existing.
But I think the direction of the thinking you are going in makes sense. I just don't know if I'd call it collectivism.
From a spiritual/philosophical perspective, we can see that humanity lost the track at some point and began a dysfunctional existence, unlike the rest of creation.
Religions and some philosophies describe the event or origins of that dysfunction each in their own limited ways.
But I think if there is one thing that defines and describes the dysfunction at its core, it's the emergence of unnatural conflict within the individual, and everything that stems from the individual, aka the family, society, nation and world.
Human beings experience conflict between their mind and body. The conscience prompts us to live in what it understands to be the 'right way', but has there ever been anyone who lived 100% according to the dictates of their conscience?
The conflict within human beings mind/body originaes in a separation between God (cause) and man (effect). This happens because all creation is designed to operate and exist through the harmonious relationship between subject (that which initiates and directs) and object (that which responds and realizes).
The fundamental breakdown occurred at a critical point when humanity decided to make itself subject to the true subject God. Instead of harmonious cooperation, you now have conflict. That conflict then infected all our relationships, including between man and woman, parents and children, families and families, societies and societies.
We also lost the harmonious relationship between our dual purposes. All created beings have a dual purpose: the purpose they have to contribute and add to the 'whole', and the purpose they have for self-existence and maintenance. Purpose of the whole, and purpose of the individual should be in harmony.
Which is subject? Which is object? The purpose of the whole is subject - living for something greater than ourselves is the way of existence. A bug exists not only to reproduce, but to be food for a bird, birds exist not only to live and reproduce, but to provide beauty to us and food for higher orders of animals. And so on.
In the dysfunctional world we live in, people have an ingrained tendency to put their own individual purpose first, as the priority, rather than serving the whole. The spirit of sacrifice is the opposite of this, and that's why all viable religious faiths emphasize service to others.
The point is, at some point, these two need to come back into alignment and create a harmonious relationship, where the purpose of the whole is aligned with the purpose of the individual. Thus, naturally, the higher orders or dimensions of human existence - family, society, nation, world, etc - reinforce and secure the purpose of the individual (i.e. through true freedom) and the individual (or lower levels of existence) harmonious support and contribute to the purpose of the whole.
Harmony.
Communism etc (i.e various forms of 'collectivism' in its current usage) are lies created to deceive human beings, by promising the intuitively longed for 'harmony of individual and whole (aka the collective)', but deliver the opposite; enslavement of the individual AND the whole to an evil malign force. At its root its satanic.
People have been seduced by the lies of communism and globalism, etc, because intuitively we ALL long for and design a unity between individual and whole, where freedom, justice, love and prosperity are secured. But Marx's theories were lies, and ultimately the ONLY way for humanity to move towards fulfilling that innate desire is to resolve a) the conflict between God and man (aka what religion calls a state of being in 'sin') and on that foundation b) the conflict between: husband + wife, parents and children, families and families, community and community, etc.
Whether one is religious or not, this truth cannot be avoided. The source of conflict in the world is found in the inner conflict within each human being. Religions are humanity's path to resolving that conflict on the internal level. However, in the modern era, the limitations of religious thought have all manifest, as we learn more and more about our material universe.
The unavoidable conclusion is that humanity needs a serious 'religious' upgrade, where the question of our existence, why the universe exists, how it is designed to function, including both spiritual and material realms, what was the cause of the breakdown historically, and how that breakdown can ultimately be finally reversed, so that both individual and the collective can be liberated to fulfill their original roles and functions in harmony.
All of this is really just another way to say (I think) exactly what you are saying, "the individual will prosper more than ever because we are on the same page and the rifts of division are closed" but I've tried to make the argument that the key to this is fundamentally a spiritual one, because the cause of conflict did not start with the communists or the globalists; they simply exploited and worked to increase it.
All the major religions predicted the return of their founder in some manner, to bring about the resolution of the path the faith teaches, to usher in the 'final resolution' to the issue of human conflict, suffering and ignorance.
If you ask me, that's really where we are today. It's not a coincidence that biblicly, it was "2000" years between Adam and Abraham, then 2000 recorded years from Abraham to Jesus, and we are here, today, 2000 years from the time of Jesus.
I cite this example because Christian faith and history are the central one in terms of religions. Jesus teaching outstrips all the others in terms of its moral highness, and in terms of seeking to rebuild the relationship between God (cause) and humanity (effect).
OK. I'll stop there.
Long story short, I think I agree with you, ax!