You seriously think Revelation already happened? You’re the first to say so from all of the theologians I’ve been around my whole life. You’re explanation doesn’t even make sense with what happens in Revelation.
You’re explanation doesn’t even make sense with what happens in Revelation.
That's because I didn't sit here and explain it all did I?
Your belief in future fulfillment of events that already happened is called "premillennial dispensationalism or Darbyism" and only arose about 200 years ago with the publication of the Rothchild funded Scofield reference Bible. It was the first Bible with footnotes explaining passages and it injected this virtually unheard of view of the end times. Sadly this Bible was widely adopted by pastors and seminaries and dispensationalism quickly became the prevalent viewpoint of end times.
For about 1800 years Christians understood Revelation (which is over 40% preferences to the Old testament) to be about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by Rome.
All the imagery lines up. The timelines line up. (The siege in the city was 42 weeks, etc) Even Christians in Jerusalem escaped this judgment by fleeing to the Mountains when times armies first appeared (when you see the abomination of desolation surrounding the holiest of the Holies, flee to the the mountains)
Instead the modern Church has been tricked into thinking 2 destructive things:
Israel is important and must be supported
Christians can't win down here so don't even try (No one polishes brass on a sinking ship)
There has been no major calamities where man had to try and hide in caves where no mountain was left unmoved, or fire from the sky, or any of the catastrophic events that revelation talks about. Revelation couldn’t even take place until Israel became a nation again in 1948. Where’s Jesus reign on earth and a thousand years of peace? New heaven and earth? Where are the results of the consequences of the trumpet’s blown and the bowls poured with the destruction upon the world? Everything points to now being the end times.
Your argument is absurd?
You’re treating Revelation like it’s a late-breaking weather report instead of a prophetic word written to real first-century Christians about real first-century events. John wasn’t writing code for twenty-first-century cable news anchors to crack after Israel’s 1948 UN paperwork went through. He was writing to “the things which must shortly take place” (Rev. 1:1). “Shortly” in Greek does not mean “in about two thousand years, give or take.”
The “hide in caves” bit? That’s straight from Isaiah 2, and it’s about God’s judgment coming on a nation in history — not about Elon Musk building Mars bunkers. The “mountains” being moved is apocalyptic language used all through Scripture to describe massive upheavals — like, say, the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 when the Old Covenant world really did come crashing down. Josephus tells us it was the kind of catastrophe where you didn’t ask “Where’s the mountain?” because you were too busy asking “Where’s the food?”
The trumpets and bowls? Not firework shows for the end of the 21st century. They were covenant lawsuit imagery, God bringing His case against apostate Israel and bringing the Romans in as the bailiffs. And Jesus’ reign? It started when He ascended and sat down at the right hand of the Father. That’s why Paul could say in the first century that Jesus is reigning now, putting His enemies under His feet (1 Cor. 15:25). The thousand years isn’t a countdown clock with a big buzzer at the end — it’s symbolic for the fullness of the gospel age. We are in it now, and the reason you don’t see “a thousand years of peace” is because you’re looking for the wrong thing. Peace doesn’t mean nothing ever goes wrong; it means the leaven is working through the loaf, and the kingdoms of this world are becoming the kingdom of our Lord.
In short, everything you’ve listed is a case of looking at the Bible through the wrong end of the telescope. When you read Revelation like a first-century letter instead of a Netflix trailer for Armageddon, you stop asking “Why hasn’t this happened yet?” and start asking “Why didn’t I notice that it already has?”
What's absurd is your ignorant of the fact that there's about 1,800 years of this position being what virtually every Christian understood and believed.
You have been deceived by Rothchild's propaganda but you can't even open your mind to that possibility because of pride..... Which is exactly where they want you.
Correct. To put it plainly dispensationalists have been duped into believing Satan's interpretation of the "last days"! BTW I was a full blown dispensationalist for the list 20 years of my Christian walk! I have since "repented"!!
Lol you can't even make the case from scripture that we aren't in the early church.
Yes, all signs point to us currently being in Satan's Short Season.
.... Said every generation for the last 200+ years.
What's important is what comes next....
You believe it's a rapture. The historical view is that it's final judgment where the wicked are swept away just as in the days of Noah and those that are in Christ (symbolic of the Ark) are safe from the judgment.
What part of "As to the expansion of His kingdom there shall be NO end" don't you understand?
We haven't reached the end of this yet, it is still future. 1 Corinthians 10:11
These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come.( Did the resurrection take place in 70 ad., it happens at the end of this age.
Matthew 13:39
and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
Matthew 13:49
This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous.
Matt.24:29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[b]
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
"THIS generation shall not pass till all these things take place" (Proper interpretation)
Matt, 24:33 Even so, when you {see all these things,} you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.( These things are all the events that will take place up to the end of this age.
Matt. 24:3 the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of {your coming and of the end of the age?”}
These are future events that haven't taken place as yet e.g. Abomination of Desolation, The last 3i/2 yrs of the Great Tribulation & the glorious return of Jesus Christ to destroy the anti-christ, resurrect the redeemed & set up His Kingdom.
There is so much to know about the Future & the 'Eternal Plan Plan of God'.
1 Corinthians 2:9
However, as it is written: “What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived”— the things God has prepared for those who love him—
I'll respond briefly point by point but I could go so much deeper like drawing up secular sources like the streets of Josephus and painting a fuller picture of what was actually going on like your point about the sun being blacked out and there is a recorded eclipse during the destruction of Jerusalem and a comet hanging in the sky like a sword over the city.
Basically I'm trying to tell you there is so much evidence and so much church history that this is what Christians understood and believed until the interpretation that you hold to became popular 200 years ago. You're not holding a historical position. Our Puritan / Protestant founding fathers would have kicked you out of their churches if you tried to hold to your position. They agreed with me, not you.
“We haven’t reached the end of this yet, it is still future. 1 Corinthians 10:11…”
Paul says in 1 Corinthians 10:11 that in his day, the culmination of the ages had already come upon them — first-century believers. This was not Paul peering through binoculars across 2,000 years; it was Paul saying, “We are at the hinge point of redemptive history right now.” The “ages” in view were the Old Covenant age giving way to the New Covenant age — the very transition that culminated in AD 70 with the destruction of the temple. That was the “end of the age” in Scripture, not the end of the physical cosmos.
“Did the resurrection take place in 70 AD? It happens at the end of this age.”
Yes, the general bodily resurrection is still future. Postmillennialism doesn’t deny that. The confusion is in assuming every “end of the age” passage refers to that final resurrection. Many “end of the age” texts refer to the end of the Jewish age (Old Covenant order). In Matthew 13, the parables deal with the judgment of Jerusalem, which fits perfectly with the events of AD 70 — the angelic “harvesters” being God’s agents of judgment in history, not necessarily the final judgment scene.
“Matthew 13:39… Matthew 13:49… end of the age… angels separate the wicked from the righteous.”
In prophetic language, “angels” (Greek: angeloi, “messengers”) can refer to human agents or heavenly ones. The separation in these parables lines up with the covenantal separation that occurred when the gospel went to the nations and judgment fell on apostate Israel. The wicked of the old covenant vineyard were cast out, and the kingdom was given to a people producing its fruits (Matt. 21:43). That is precisely what happened in the first century.
“Matthew 24:29–31… cosmic signs… coming of the Son of Man… angels gathering the elect.”
This is straight from Daniel 7 language — “Son of Man coming on the clouds” is not Jesus leaving heaven for earth, but Jesus coming to the Ancient of Days in judgment and enthronement. The cosmic language (“sun darkened… stars fall…”) is classic prophetic imagery for political upheaval (Isa. 13:10; Ezek. 32:7–8), not literal astronomy gone haywire. The “gathering of the elect” happened as the gospel spread rapidly through the Roman world after Jerusalem fell, as Jesus’ angels/messengers gathered His people into the new covenant order.
“‘This generation shall not pass…’”
Jesus gives a time stamp. “This generation” means the generation He was speaking to. Every single time the phrase is used in the gospels, it means exactly that. If you stretch “generation” into “two thousand years and counting,” then language has no brakes. Jesus put all those signs — up to and including Jerusalem’s destruction — within forty years. And that’s exactly what happened in AD 70.
“These things are all the events… to the end of this age… disciples ask… end of the age.”
The disciples’ question in Matthew 24:3 links “the sign of your coming” with “the end of the age.” They weren’t asking about the end of the universe; they were asking about the end of the temple and the Old Covenant world it represented. That’s why the discourse opens with Jesus saying, “Not one stone here will be left upon another” (Matt. 24:2). That’s the focal point — not a 21st-century Antichrist with bad Wi-Fi.
“These are future events… Abomination of Desolation, last 3½ years, Great Tribulation, glorious return…”
The “Abomination of Desolation” (Matt. 24:15) is a direct lift from Daniel, and Jesus applies it to His disciples’ own lifetime. Luke 21:20 interprets it plainly: “When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.” That’s the Roman siege of AD 66–70, not a still-future UN peace treaty gone bad. The “Great Tribulation” was the unique horror of that siege — so bad Jesus said nothing like it had happened before or would again (Matt. 24:21). If you push that into the future, you have to explain how a coming tribulation could be worse than the total covenantal collapse of God’s own nation.
“There is so much to know about the Future & the ‘Eternal Plan of God’… 1 Corinthians 2:9…”
Absolutely. But that verse in 1 Corinthians 2:9 is about the mystery of the gospel revealed in Christ — a mystery already unfolding in Paul’s day. It’s not a license to punt all difficult prophecy passages into the “Future Events Bin” just because we can’t imagine their first-century fulfillment. God’s eternal plan is Christ ruling now, in history, until all His enemies are under His feet (1 Cor. 15:25) — and that’s exactly what postmillennialism expects.
Postmillennialism was created by the Roman Catholic church. They believed their church grow greater & more power till it conquered the whole world. This has been reintroduced by the teachers of "The Dominion' teaching that 'christians' would conquer the world for Christ. That misleading blasphemy stealing HIS GLORY.
I'm not a 'Dispensationalist', but I believe there is an AGE to come.
Matthew 12:32
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either {in this age or in the age to come.}
Mark 10 29 “Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel 30 will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life. 31 But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”
Luke 20:34
Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage.
Ephesians 3:9
and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which {for ages past }was kept hidden in God, who created all things.
1 Timothy 6:19
In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for {the coming age}, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.
“Postmillennialism was created by the Roman Catholic Church…”
That’s like saying the wheel was created by the Michelin Tire Company. The basic postmillennial expectation — the gospel conquering the nations — is embedded in Scripture long before Rome was in the picture as an institution (Ps. 2; Isa. 2:2–4; Dan. 2:35, 44; Matt. 28:18–20). Early church fathers like Eusebius and Athanasius spoke of Christ’s kingdom filling the earth centuries before “Dominionism” was a trigger word. The medieval Roman church borrowed biblical optimism, then fouled it up by replacing gospel conquest with ecclesiastical empire-building. Bad knockoffs don’t mean the original design is wrong.
“Dominion teaching… Christians would conquer the world for Christ… stealing His glory.”
If obeying the Great Commission is “stealing His glory,” then we have a problem with Jesus’ own words. Christ explicitly commands His people to disciple the nations, teaching them to obey everything He has commanded (Matt. 28:19–20). In postmillennialism, Christ conquers the world — through His Spirit, His Word, and His people as instruments. Saying that’s “stealing His glory” is like saying a farmer robs the sun because his crops grew after he plowed
“I’m not a dispensationalist, but I believe there is an age to come…”
Yes — so does every orthodox Christian. Postmillennialism doesn’t deny the final consummation, the resurrection, or the eternal state. The difference is that Scripture speaks of the transition from the Old Covenant “age” to the New Covenant “age” as something that happened in the first century (Heb. 9:26; 1 Cor. 10:11). That doesn’t erase the “age to come” after history wraps up — it simply means you have to read “age” in context rather than assuming every use is about eternity.
“Matthew 12:32… Mark 10:29–31… Luke 20:34… Ephesians 3:9… 1 Timothy 6:19”
All these passages affirm the reality of the “age to come,” but none of them disprove postmillennialism. They describe:
Matthew 12:32 – The seriousness of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, contrasting the present age and the coming one.
Mark 10:29–31 – The blessings of discipleship now, and eternal life in the age to come.
Luke 20:34 – Marriage belonging to this present age, not the resurrection state.
Ephesians 3:9 – The mystery hidden in past ages, now revealed in Christ.
1 Timothy 6:19 – Storing up treasure for the coming age.
Postmillennialism fully agrees with all of these. The existence of an “age to come” after Christ’s return is not the debate — the debate is what the Bible means by “this present age” in first-century context, and whether Christ reigns now with history bending toward His victory before that final age.
Summary
You don’t defeat postmillennialism by pointing out that heaven exists. You defeat it by proving the Bible teaches that history ends in gospel defeat before Christ’s return — and that’s the one thing Scripture never says. From Abraham’s promise (Gen. 12:3) to the Great Commission (Matt. 28) to Paul’s “all nations” language (Rom. 16:26), the through-line is Christ’s glory covering the earth in history, not just after it’s over. That’s not stealing His glory — that’s the only way the world will actually see it.
This is MANY Christians believe! Also, the kingdom was established on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came upon the apostles in the upper room. There are NO second chances. Be saved today by obeying the gospel. Be baptized into His death and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and be forgiven of all your sins! Then when you die, you will continue to live forever and ever!
I can see you are being down voted fren. I believe the truth you have mentioned will be mainstream in the near future. There are 11 time statements in Revelation. Statements like "shortly come to pass", "the time is near" and "I am coming quickly". The Greek words used strongly convey imminence from the 1st century perspective.
In addition the internal evidence strongly supports the view that Revelation was written prior to the destruction of the Jewish Temple in 70 AD. The late date of 95 AD comes primarily from a quote from Irenaeus, bishop of Lyons. His quote is controversial because of grammar ambiguity, manuscript transmission, historical implications and dependence on a single witness (Irenaeus).
Probably the best verse by verse commentary on Revelation was written by David Chilton. It's entitled "Days of Vengeance".
Yes and I like Kenneth Gentry. I have his work "Before Jerusalem Fell". I haven't read the other 3 you mentioned. Thanks for the info! Folks like us are in the minority.
Which is crazy to me since if you could go back and talk to our founding fathers and the other Christians that came to America they would all agree with us and absolutely laugh at a future interpretation.
So much of church history would be absolutely neutered and non-existent if people thought they were going to be yeeted up into heaven every time there was wars and rumors of war.
Instead we have a rich history of Christians starting projects that their great-grandchildren would have to finish. Signing leases on land for a thousand years.
You Don't see these modern churches that believe in dispensationalism building and taking Dominion and thinking about their great grandchildren's futures for the most part. Why would they? It's not their job!
The book of Revelation was about the upcoming destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by Rome's armies in 70AD.
That was Jesus coming on the clouds in judgment on time and as promised - "THIS generation shall not pass till all these things take place"
Quit looking for future fulfillment of what has already happened.
You seriously think Revelation already happened? You’re the first to say so from all of the theologians I’ve been around my whole life. You’re explanation doesn’t even make sense with what happens in Revelation.
That's because I didn't sit here and explain it all did I?
Your belief in future fulfillment of events that already happened is called "premillennial dispensationalism or Darbyism" and only arose about 200 years ago with the publication of the Rothchild funded Scofield reference Bible. It was the first Bible with footnotes explaining passages and it injected this virtually unheard of view of the end times. Sadly this Bible was widely adopted by pastors and seminaries and dispensationalism quickly became the prevalent viewpoint of end times.
For about 1800 years Christians understood Revelation (which is over 40% preferences to the Old testament) to be about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by Rome.
All the imagery lines up. The timelines line up. (The siege in the city was 42 weeks, etc) Even Christians in Jerusalem escaped this judgment by fleeing to the Mountains when times armies first appeared (when you see the abomination of desolation surrounding the holiest of the Holies, flee to the the mountains)
Instead the modern Church has been tricked into thinking 2 destructive things:
Israel is important and must be supported
Christians can't win down here so don't even try (No one polishes brass on a sinking ship)
Don't believe the Jewish lie.
God wins.
There has been no major calamities where man had to try and hide in caves where no mountain was left unmoved, or fire from the sky, or any of the catastrophic events that revelation talks about. Revelation couldn’t even take place until Israel became a nation again in 1948. Where’s Jesus reign on earth and a thousand years of peace? New heaven and earth? Where are the results of the consequences of the trumpet’s blown and the bowls poured with the destruction upon the world? Everything points to now being the end times. Your argument is absurd?
You’re treating Revelation like it’s a late-breaking weather report instead of a prophetic word written to real first-century Christians about real first-century events. John wasn’t writing code for twenty-first-century cable news anchors to crack after Israel’s 1948 UN paperwork went through. He was writing to “the things which must shortly take place” (Rev. 1:1). “Shortly” in Greek does not mean “in about two thousand years, give or take.”
The “hide in caves” bit? That’s straight from Isaiah 2, and it’s about God’s judgment coming on a nation in history — not about Elon Musk building Mars bunkers. The “mountains” being moved is apocalyptic language used all through Scripture to describe massive upheavals — like, say, the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 when the Old Covenant world really did come crashing down. Josephus tells us it was the kind of catastrophe where you didn’t ask “Where’s the mountain?” because you were too busy asking “Where’s the food?”
The trumpets and bowls? Not firework shows for the end of the 21st century. They were covenant lawsuit imagery, God bringing His case against apostate Israel and bringing the Romans in as the bailiffs. And Jesus’ reign? It started when He ascended and sat down at the right hand of the Father. That’s why Paul could say in the first century that Jesus is reigning now, putting His enemies under His feet (1 Cor. 15:25). The thousand years isn’t a countdown clock with a big buzzer at the end — it’s symbolic for the fullness of the gospel age. We are in it now, and the reason you don’t see “a thousand years of peace” is because you’re looking for the wrong thing. Peace doesn’t mean nothing ever goes wrong; it means the leaven is working through the loaf, and the kingdoms of this world are becoming the kingdom of our Lord.
In short, everything you’ve listed is a case of looking at the Bible through the wrong end of the telescope. When you read Revelation like a first-century letter instead of a Netflix trailer for Armageddon, you stop asking “Why hasn’t this happened yet?” and start asking “Why didn’t I notice that it already has?”
What's absurd is your ignorant of the fact that there's about 1,800 years of this position being what virtually every Christian understood and believed.
You have been deceived by Rothchild's propaganda but you can't even open your mind to that possibility because of pride..... Which is exactly where they want you.
Correct. To put it plainly dispensationalists have been duped into believing Satan's interpretation of the "last days"! BTW I was a full blown dispensationalist for the list 20 years of my Christian walk! I have since "repented"!!
Yes, all signs point to us currently being in Satan's Short Season.
Lol you can't even make the case from scripture that we aren't in the early church.
.... Said every generation for the last 200+ years.
What's important is what comes next....
You believe it's a rapture. The historical view is that it's final judgment where the wicked are swept away just as in the days of Noah and those that are in Christ (symbolic of the Ark) are safe from the judgment.
What part of "As to the expansion of His kingdom there shall be NO end" don't you understand?
God wins.
No, sir.
I believe Christ came back and reigned for 1000 years before Satan was loosened from his chains, and this caused the mud flood.
Tartaria conspiracies on YouTube? Cover up for the Millennial Kingdom and Satan's return.
Some of us are tares AKA NPCs.
We haven't reached the end of this yet, it is still future. 1 Corinthians 10:11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come.( Did the resurrection take place in 70 ad., it happens at the end of this age.
Matthew 13:39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
Matthew 13:49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous.
Matt.24:29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[b]
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
"THIS generation shall not pass till all these things take place" (Proper interpretation)
Matt, 24:33 Even so, when you {see all these things,} you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.( These things are all the events that will take place up to the end of this age. Matt. 24:3 the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of {your coming and of the end of the age?”}
These are future events that haven't taken place as yet e.g. Abomination of Desolation, The last 3i/2 yrs of the Great Tribulation & the glorious return of Jesus Christ to destroy the anti-christ, resurrect the redeemed & set up His Kingdom.
There is so much to know about the Future & the 'Eternal Plan Plan of God'.
1 Corinthians 2:9 However, as it is written: “What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived”— the things God has prepared for those who love him—
I'll respond briefly point by point but I could go so much deeper like drawing up secular sources like the streets of Josephus and painting a fuller picture of what was actually going on like your point about the sun being blacked out and there is a recorded eclipse during the destruction of Jerusalem and a comet hanging in the sky like a sword over the city.
Basically I'm trying to tell you there is so much evidence and so much church history that this is what Christians understood and believed until the interpretation that you hold to became popular 200 years ago. You're not holding a historical position. Our Puritan / Protestant founding fathers would have kicked you out of their churches if you tried to hold to your position. They agreed with me, not you.
Paul says in 1 Corinthians 10:11 that in his day, the culmination of the ages had already come upon them — first-century believers. This was not Paul peering through binoculars across 2,000 years; it was Paul saying, “We are at the hinge point of redemptive history right now.” The “ages” in view were the Old Covenant age giving way to the New Covenant age — the very transition that culminated in AD 70 with the destruction of the temple. That was the “end of the age” in Scripture, not the end of the physical cosmos.
Yes, the general bodily resurrection is still future. Postmillennialism doesn’t deny that. The confusion is in assuming every “end of the age” passage refers to that final resurrection. Many “end of the age” texts refer to the end of the Jewish age (Old Covenant order). In Matthew 13, the parables deal with the judgment of Jerusalem, which fits perfectly with the events of AD 70 — the angelic “harvesters” being God’s agents of judgment in history, not necessarily the final judgment scene.
In prophetic language, “angels” (Greek: angeloi, “messengers”) can refer to human agents or heavenly ones. The separation in these parables lines up with the covenantal separation that occurred when the gospel went to the nations and judgment fell on apostate Israel. The wicked of the old covenant vineyard were cast out, and the kingdom was given to a people producing its fruits (Matt. 21:43). That is precisely what happened in the first century.
This is straight from Daniel 7 language — “Son of Man coming on the clouds” is not Jesus leaving heaven for earth, but Jesus coming to the Ancient of Days in judgment and enthronement. The cosmic language (“sun darkened… stars fall…”) is classic prophetic imagery for political upheaval (Isa. 13:10; Ezek. 32:7–8), not literal astronomy gone haywire. The “gathering of the elect” happened as the gospel spread rapidly through the Roman world after Jerusalem fell, as Jesus’ angels/messengers gathered His people into the new covenant order.
Jesus gives a time stamp. “This generation” means the generation He was speaking to. Every single time the phrase is used in the gospels, it means exactly that. If you stretch “generation” into “two thousand years and counting,” then language has no brakes. Jesus put all those signs — up to and including Jerusalem’s destruction — within forty years. And that’s exactly what happened in AD 70.
The disciples’ question in Matthew 24:3 links “the sign of your coming” with “the end of the age.” They weren’t asking about the end of the universe; they were asking about the end of the temple and the Old Covenant world it represented. That’s why the discourse opens with Jesus saying, “Not one stone here will be left upon another” (Matt. 24:2). That’s the focal point — not a 21st-century Antichrist with bad Wi-Fi.
The “Abomination of Desolation” (Matt. 24:15) is a direct lift from Daniel, and Jesus applies it to His disciples’ own lifetime. Luke 21:20 interprets it plainly: “When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.” That’s the Roman siege of AD 66–70, not a still-future UN peace treaty gone bad. The “Great Tribulation” was the unique horror of that siege — so bad Jesus said nothing like it had happened before or would again (Matt. 24:21). If you push that into the future, you have to explain how a coming tribulation could be worse than the total covenantal collapse of God’s own nation.
Absolutely. But that verse in 1 Corinthians 2:9 is about the mystery of the gospel revealed in Christ — a mystery already unfolding in Paul’s day. It’s not a license to punt all difficult prophecy passages into the “Future Events Bin” just because we can’t imagine their first-century fulfillment. God’s eternal plan is Christ ruling now, in history, until all His enemies are under His feet (1 Cor. 15:25) — and that’s exactly what postmillennialism expects.
Postmillennialism was created by the Roman Catholic church. They believed their church grow greater & more power till it conquered the whole world. This has been reintroduced by the teachers of "The Dominion' teaching that 'christians' would conquer the world for Christ. That misleading blasphemy stealing HIS GLORY.
I'm not a 'Dispensationalist', but I believe there is an AGE to come.
Matthew 12:32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either {in this age or in the age to come.}
Mark 10 29 “Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel 30 will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life. 31 But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”
Luke 20:34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage.
Ephesians 3:9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which {for ages past }was kept hidden in God, who created all things.
1 Timothy 6:19 In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for {the coming age}, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.
😂!
That’s like saying the wheel was created by the Michelin Tire Company. The basic postmillennial expectation — the gospel conquering the nations — is embedded in Scripture long before Rome was in the picture as an institution (Ps. 2; Isa. 2:2–4; Dan. 2:35, 44; Matt. 28:18–20). Early church fathers like Eusebius and Athanasius spoke of Christ’s kingdom filling the earth centuries before “Dominionism” was a trigger word. The medieval Roman church borrowed biblical optimism, then fouled it up by replacing gospel conquest with ecclesiastical empire-building. Bad knockoffs don’t mean the original design is wrong.
If obeying the Great Commission is “stealing His glory,” then we have a problem with Jesus’ own words. Christ explicitly commands His people to disciple the nations, teaching them to obey everything He has commanded (Matt. 28:19–20). In postmillennialism, Christ conquers the world — through His Spirit, His Word, and His people as instruments. Saying that’s “stealing His glory” is like saying a farmer robs the sun because his crops grew after he plowed
Yes — so does every orthodox Christian. Postmillennialism doesn’t deny the final consummation, the resurrection, or the eternal state. The difference is that Scripture speaks of the transition from the Old Covenant “age” to the New Covenant “age” as something that happened in the first century (Heb. 9:26; 1 Cor. 10:11). That doesn’t erase the “age to come” after history wraps up — it simply means you have to read “age” in context rather than assuming every use is about eternity.
All these passages affirm the reality of the “age to come,” but none of them disprove postmillennialism. They describe:
Matthew 12:32 – The seriousness of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, contrasting the present age and the coming one.
Mark 10:29–31 – The blessings of discipleship now, and eternal life in the age to come.
Luke 20:34 – Marriage belonging to this present age, not the resurrection state.
Ephesians 3:9 – The mystery hidden in past ages, now revealed in Christ.
1 Timothy 6:19 – Storing up treasure for the coming age.
Postmillennialism fully agrees with all of these. The existence of an “age to come” after Christ’s return is not the debate — the debate is what the Bible means by “this present age” in first-century context, and whether Christ reigns now with history bending toward His victory before that final age.
You don’t defeat postmillennialism by pointing out that heaven exists. You defeat it by proving the Bible teaches that history ends in gospel defeat before Christ’s return — and that’s the one thing Scripture never says. From Abraham’s promise (Gen. 12:3) to the Great Commission (Matt. 28) to Paul’s “all nations” language (Rom. 16:26), the through-line is Christ’s glory covering the earth in history, not just after it’s over. That’s not stealing His glory — that’s the only way the world will actually see it.
This is MANY Christians believe! Also, the kingdom was established on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came upon the apostles in the upper room. There are NO second chances. Be saved today by obeying the gospel. Be baptized into His death and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and be forgiven of all your sins! Then when you die, you will continue to live forever and ever!
I can see you are being down voted fren. I believe the truth you have mentioned will be mainstream in the near future. There are 11 time statements in Revelation. Statements like "shortly come to pass", "the time is near" and "I am coming quickly". The Greek words used strongly convey imminence from the 1st century perspective.
In addition the internal evidence strongly supports the view that Revelation was written prior to the destruction of the Jewish Temple in 70 AD. The late date of 95 AD comes primarily from a quote from Irenaeus, bishop of Lyons. His quote is controversial because of grammar ambiguity, manuscript transmission, historical implications and dependence on a single witness (Irenaeus).
Probably the best verse by verse commentary on Revelation was written by David Chilton. It's entitled "Days of Vengeance".
I like Chilton. I also recommend :
"Before the Jerusalem fell" & "he shall have dominion" by Dr Kenneth Gentry
"Victory in Jesus" by Greg Bahnsen
"The mission of God" by Dr Joseph Boot
" The Puritan Hope" by Iain Murray
Among others
Yes and I like Kenneth Gentry. I have his work "Before Jerusalem Fell". I haven't read the other 3 you mentioned. Thanks for the info! Folks like us are in the minority.
Which is crazy to me since if you could go back and talk to our founding fathers and the other Christians that came to America they would all agree with us and absolutely laugh at a future interpretation.
So much of church history would be absolutely neutered and non-existent if people thought they were going to be yeeted up into heaven every time there was wars and rumors of war.
Instead we have a rich history of Christians starting projects that their great-grandchildren would have to finish. Signing leases on land for a thousand years.
You Don't see these modern churches that believe in dispensationalism building and taking Dominion and thinking about their great grandchildren's futures for the most part. Why would they? It's not their job!