X-Muslim โฆ โI put the Bible and the Quran in front of meโ
POWERFUL!!! ๐๐ผ๐๐ผ
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Christ always wins.
His way of love and zero violence, with truth, grace, mercy, and forgiveness, can't be met by any other faith known to humankind.
If you put your faith in Him, you win too.
Amen. I have seen that happen a lot in my life.
Amen.
That isn't true.
In the New Testament (found in all four Gospels, e.g., Matthew 21:12-13, Mark 11:15-17, Luke 19:45-46, John 2:13-16), Jesus enters the temple in Jerusalem and sees moneylenders and merchants exploiting worshippers by turning a sacred space into a marketplace. He doesnโt act impulsively. For several days, he observes the situation, reflecting carefully. In Johnโs account, he even takes time to braid a whip from cords. Then, with deliberate conviction, he drives out the moneylenders, overturns their tables, and rebukes them for defiling the temple, saying it should be a house of prayer, not a โden of thieves.โ
Jesus wasnโt opposed to all violence; his calculated response shows that righteous anger, when thoughtfully directed, can be used to confront injustice and restore whatโs sacred.
I am not directing anyone to violence. I am hoping to remind you that the teachings of our Lord Jesus does not require us to be passive, peaceful and utterly helpless in the face of corruption and violence.
This is a common misconception. He wasn't violent.
Hang with me on this, and keep reading, ok?
John is the closest anyone can get to Christ being violent. But it only states He drove them all out of the temple. Whipping in the air can drive both people and animals out. Especially someone in righteous anger for God's temple, where everyone would instantly know the money changers were in the wrong and have no ground to stand on according to scripture.
Now here's how the misconception can be cleared up:
When the pharisees, sadducees, and especially Pilate were trying to find fault with him, you can bet your life if anyone was whipped and had a whipping mark that would have been used against Him. Especially if it was violence done in the temple!
But they could find no fault in Him. So this is how you know there was violence.
Righteous indignation? OH YEAH!
Violence? DEFINITELY NOT!
I forgot to add, his anger at his own follower (Simon Peter) for using a sword on the soldier that was coming to arrest Jesus and take him to crucifixion is another perfect example.
If you want to take the lesson that you should be a pacifist to the point of death, then be my guest.
I don't believe that is either the example or the teaching of Christ.
Further, saying that Christ flipped tables and whipped near people, which isn't violence ... well, that is semantics. For Christ to swing his whip in a way that was a credible threat and cause people to be afraid, it makes no difference if the whip kissed their skin or not. Under modern laws, this behavior would still be considered to be assault.
Remember that Jesus was convicted by an ecumenical court of Jewish elders because he threatened their power and authority with his preaching the new testament. Pilate suggested that they crucify actual criminals. Everyone in attendance, Jews and Pilate, knew that the charges were political.
So to sum up, I find your arguments miss the point.
BUT if you want to go and live your life without anger or violence, then be my guest.
Peaceful is not the same as Helpless, or even Harmless. Jesus knew this and demonstrated it through his example. He was a man of Peace, not A Passive Victim.
I have been living my life without anger or violence, and it gets you really close to God. So close, I've been given a moment to glimpse His face too, and i look forward to when my work is done on this earth. My take on death is in line with Christ, who knew when he died He would be taken to God, who said to the faithful thief on the cross next to him would be with him, that very hour of his death. Like Paul, who knew when he died he would be taken to be with Christ, with no intermediate zone between his flesh life and spirit life. Based on things scripture is very clear of.
But let's go further.
Jesus didn't just avoid violence, but also taught against it. In the Sermon on the Mount, He said: "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also."
When Peter drew his sword in Gethsemane, Jesus didn't say, "Only use force in righteous situations." He said "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword."
You mentioned that Christ's actions would be considered assault today, but I don't think there's any place that finds someone guilty for whipping air, maybe if you're in some bad country that finds you guilty for hurting someone's feelings.
Jesus operated under a higher law, and even His anger was pure, and His actions measured, because they stopped short of harming anyone. He overturned tables and drove out animals. He confronted sin, but didn't sin Himself. He was without fault that they could only bring people who bared false witness against him.
Don't forget when He was struck, mocked, and crucified, He did not retaliate. He prayed, "Father, forgive them." That is the pattern He left for us to follow. It's the way of overcoming evil with good. It's the way of the cross.
We are called to be strong, but strong in Spirit, not in flesh.
We fight spiritual battles with spiritual weapons. To claim Jesus endorsed violence is to misunderstand His mission, and His heart.
I stand by what I said. You can do what you want, but what if you miss heaven because you chose to be violent in the flesh, when God and Christ commanded you to love?
Being helpless is a luxury.
I have not avoided violence. I spent ten years working in Hospital security. I dealt mostly with violent drug addicts and violent mental health patients.
Once our team dealt with a young 6'8" Maori who had just become a schizophrenic. He had voices in his head pretending to be his ancestors telling him that he was a death god, and that he was to chose who lived and who died.
I solved that issue by talking to him, but he was nineteen and so much bigger and stronger than I was.
If he had decided to listen to those voices, and to attack those doctors and nurses trying to help him I would have put myself in the way and I would have fought to the death.
For you to explain to me that Christ wants me to run and hide while evil happens is disgusting. For you to say that you are superior to good, honest, dutiful policeman and soldiers is wicked.
You have the utter, enviable luxury of living in a community where rough men like me use our judgement, get our hands dirty, and (according to you) risk our very souls so you can feel superior and get closer to God.
Fine! I am not even mad. Love your best life. But don't you dare tell me that my choices are ungodly, and that Christ looks down on my willingness to serve my community and to be the rough hands that keep you safe.
Peaceful is to have the capacity for violence and to make the choice to not use that capability.
Jesus could have called in his followers to rise up and to fight the wicked Jews and the heartless Romans. Instead he went willingly to his death, because his sacrifice would teach his followers a lesson.
There are times that violence is needed, and it is cowardice to turn away. God gave us a brain, an organ of judgement, and then he sent his son to teach us how to use it. By his example, Jesus taught us that considered, effective violence is sometimes required of us.
But you don't need to learn that lesson. You certainly are not ready for it.
Just go back to sleep in your nice comfortable bed. Tell yourself how superior you are to police officers and soldiers. Tell yourself that prison guards and hospital guards are lesser, less worthy men.
Christ loves you all the same.
I don't have his infinite capacity.
I deeply appreciate your insight on the subject.
I have struggled with forgiveness, as taught by our Lord Jesus. The first part of forgiveness is to accept people as they are.
I have had great difficulty in accepting that people can not be held to a higher standard. It has taken me a long time to understand that the teachings on forgiveness are without contradiction and that it is possible to forgive sinners and have standards for your community.
I get frustrated with other Christians who have taken from the teachings of the New Testament that we should forgive and accept people as they are and accept that they won't or can't change. There doesn't seem to be any place for tough love in that approach.
I understand where you're coming from, but I want to be clear that if your role is to serve in security, then understand your role is respected, and that civil authority you hold is ordained by God to restrain evil (Romans 13:4). Those in public-serving roles operate within a framework of godly order, not personal vengeance. It doesn't make people lesser, unless they become lesser by disregarding that order for personal aims.
Turning the other cheek, rebuking the sword, and praying for executioners makes it clear that spiritual strength, rooted in forgiveness, patience, and trust in God's ultimate justice, isn't weakness. It's not about being a coward and running and hiding, in fact Jesus even said "Greater love has no one than this: to lay down oneโs life for oneโs friends." It's a higher form of courage aligned with the way of the cross, something you expressed a bit of in defending a nurse as your civil authority.
The true battle isn't against people, but against spiritual darkness (Ephesians 6:12), and our calling is to overcome evil with good (Romans 12:21). We must not rely on fleshly strength but seek God's discernment in each situation. Love, not violence, remains the defining mark of a follower of Jesus, and eternal rewards are promised to the peacemakers.
Now, likewise, as a moderator with power here on this board, while not as flashy and dangerous as security, it's my God-ordained civil authority and my responsibility to uphold the standards of civility as per the sideboard rules. Which means personal insults like "go back to sleep" and "you're not ready for it" are violating our basic rule of respectful dialogue. We both operate under the same Romans 13:4, and I'm here talking to you, like you with the 'death god', to help you understand that if you want this to continue, that is the standard we must all uphold here.
Hopefully you see it's not weakness, but strength that comes from spiritual Godliness, with an aim to lift each other up and aim at something higher.
Awesome!
Yes.
If you like Nabeel, you should also like Dave Hunt, Lee Strobel, and Chuck Missler.
I have never heard of them. I will check.
I sure miss Chuck!
The Bible---inspired by the Creator and Savior of mankind--and the Quran---inspired by the adversary of the Creator and Savior of mankind!
Love it, God is glory
One of the first miracles that happened for mankind, was when God the Father reached into our consciousness. Our brains took a cosmic leap with the understanding of HIS word. We could have remained mired in tribal and cultural traditions and superstitions, making up stories about the stars, worshipping fires and mountains and springs. Praying to graven images. But we did not. When God spoke and guided Abraham, he brought mankind into faith in something unseen, untouched, impossible to manipulate. It was a miracle for a human to come to conceive the idea of one God. Generations passed, wars were fought, demons came to tempt the original men of faith, but for those who did obey and submit, preach, teach and organize, HE held fast because of his love. The Christ came through Jesus in mortal form, to reach out to gentiles, savages, sinners, the lost and wayward, and God in Christ transformed us into a powerful force on earth to fight evil and satan. A miracle for humble people who had no reason to turn from sin, no reason to abandon superstitions, cruelty and end the worship of gold and wealth. Satan sent false religions to swoop up a large amount of people, but we hold fast. A miracle. Give thanks and praise and have joy in your heart, our salvation came from heaven, in which we surely believe.
"When God spoke and guided Abraham, he brought mankind into faith in something unseen, untouched, impossible to manipulate."
It did not start with Abraham. Among persons who actually physically walked with Jesus (Adam), you overlooked Abel, Seth, Noah, and Enoch.
Not an ex muslim. Just an ex unbeliever. The flavor of unbelief isnt relevant. Now lets get actual church going people born again. Im still meetung oeople whive gone to church their whole lives who havent even hesrdnabiuy the new birth Christ spoke abiut.
Beautiful! Praise God! Hallelujah!
GOD wins!
Wow ๐
๐ฅน๐ญ
I love this!
Thereโs a MASSIVE amount of self righteous โscientistsโ on full assault against religionโฆ.why? Why right now? Watch the science community moving forward, they are in a calculated attack against religion and truth.
Lord, continue to reveal yourself! Even in the night, bring dreams and visions to those who do not know you. You can touch the hardest heart. Great is your loving desire for each person you created.
Amen
Right.
Have you heard about the saying that Jesus is a Muslim yet?