UPDATE: Turning Point USA Admits The Candace Owens Text Messages Are REAL!
(wltreport.com)
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You’re right to separate covenant standing from ethnic identity, but let’s not pretend those two can run off in opposite directions like toddlers in a Walmart. In Scripture, they were always bound together in God’s redemptive plan, and the moment Christ fulfilled the covenant, the ethnic scaffolding was pulled down by design.
Yes, Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin—but that was before 70 AD, when such claims could still be verified. After the fire, anyone claiming tribal descent is basically saying, “My great-great-grandmother told me I’m a Levite, cross my heart.” Sure, God knows who’s who (2 Tim 2:19), but that’s not an argument for us still treating tribal Israel as a distinct covenant category. God also knows who His elect are, and that doesn’t mean we hand out name tags.
The point about the remnant is fine—Paul already handled that in Romans 9–11. There is a remnant, but that remnant is defined by faith, not DNA. The New Covenant doesn’t run on bloodlines; it runs on belief. And when Zechariah talks about that remnant calling on His name, he’s not promising a nationalistic revival complete with temple blueprints and red heifers—he’s pointing to the same gospel call that has already gone out to the nations, Jew and Gentile alike.
Now, about Jerusalem being the “center stage.” Let’s be careful not to confuse the set dressing with the script. The old Jerusalem played her part. But the New Jerusalem—the bride of Christ, the church—is the main act. If you’re still waiting for the camera to pan back to the old city, you’re standing in the theater lobby while the real story’s already rolling on the screen.
So yes, the people didn’t vanish, but their covenantal role did. The genealogical records didn’t just burn—they were divinely deleted. God hit “Save As,” renamed the file “The Church,” and moved it to the New Covenant folder.
Haha arguing with AI, gotta love it 😂
But seriously - I think you’re slipping into a bit of preterism here, man. 70 AD ended the Levitical system, not Israel itself. Burning the genealogies didn’t delete people any more than burning your birth certificate deletes you.
Paul still called himself “of the tribe of Benjamin” (Phil 3:5) and James wrote “to the twelve tribes scattered abroad” (James 1:1). God knows exactly who’s who (2 Tim 2:19).
Again, the whole “who’s a real Israelite” convo is kinda a giant red herring designed to get people to hate Israel. Scripture’s focus isn’t on who can prove descent but where God’s redemptive plan unfolds…and that’s Jerusalem.
Luke 21:24 says it’ll be “trampled until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” Zech 12–14, Matt 24, and Rev 11 all point back to that city as the end-time stage - siege, national repentance, and the Lord’s feet on the Mount of Olives.
So yeah, I agree the New Covenant brings Jew and Gentile together in Christ, but the location of Jerusalem still plays a role in prophecy.
The people didn’t vanish, the covenant didn’t move to a new “folder” - God’s still writing the same story, and the final chapters take place right where He said they would.
And what is wrong with "slipping into preterism"? Whenever end times prophesy appears in scripture, it is accompanied by verses stating that these things will come to pass soon and in the lives of the disciples.
Matthew 24:34
Revelation 1:1, and 1:7
There are dozen's more verses that state that, those are just the first three off the top of my head.
It is clear that the prophesy laid out in Revelation and in the Olivet Discourse took place during the lifetime of the disciples, exactly as scripture said it would. That means it was fulfilled in 70 AD.
Now the case could be made for multiple fulfillment of prophesy. That happened repeatedly in the Old Testament. Prophesy would be fulfilled once in the near term, and then again more fully in the coming of Christ. But even that view is a form of preterism as well.
Yeah exactly - full preterism is where things go off the rails. It tries to cram all prophecy into 70 AD, which would mean Jesus already returned, the resurrection already happened, and Satan’s been “bound” this whole time (which… clearly doesn’t line up with what we see).
Partial preterism, though, actually works perfectly with futurism. It sees the near-term stuff - Jerusalem’s fall, persecution under Nero, the early church’s tribulation - as the first mountain peak. Then futurism looks ahead to the second one - Christ’s visible return, the restoration of Israel, and the literal reign from Jerusalem.
That combo honors the dual nature of Hebrew prophecy - that near + far pattern you see everywhere in Scripture. It’s not either/or… it’s both/and. 💪
Yeah, full preterism doesn't work unless you have a very low view of the promises of a new heaven and a new earth were every tear is wiped away from Revelation 21 and 22.
But we can not ignore all the verses which clearly state that all the end times prophesy in scripture happened shortly after it was written.
There is one more compelling theory that works here. We could be in the "little season" mentioned in Revelation 20:3. This would put us after Jesus' millennial reign and within the little season in which Satan is loosed from the bottomless pit to deceive the nations.
I'm post-millennial.
God destroyed the genealogies. That's not comparable to someone burning a birth certificate.
What it allowed however is for others that are not Jews to finally call themselves Jews and pervert traditional Judaism and bring in pagan beliefs. The Babylonian Talmud comes to mind. So does "synagogue of Satan"
Of course they did since the temple was still standing at that time. Jesus hadn't come in the clouds in judgment yet. Super simple stuff.
No it doesn't unless you're a dispensationalists
Yeah nah, I’m not defending dispensationalism - that system added plenty of weird stuff. But you don’t have to be a Scofield fanboy to see that Jerusalem still matters in prophecy.
Jesus said it’ll be “trampled by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled” (Luke 21:24). Zech 14 says the nations surround Jerusalem and the Lord’s feet touch the Mount of Olives - last time I checked, that's in Jerusalem.. John calls the great city “where our Lord was crucified” (Rev 11:8).
You don’t need a chart to see who that’s talking about.
The whole “Israel prophecy was invented by Jews to trick Christians” thing is just recycled Gnostic paranoia. The prophets weren’t running psyops - they were just writing down what God told them.
So yeah, not dispensational - just taking the text at face value. IMO, God’s not done with Jerusalem, and that’s His promise, not a political plot.
Romans 11:2 literally says:
In Romans, Paul makes a clear distinction between individual salvation (by faith) and national calling (by God’s sovereign election).
Romans 9:4-5 - Paul lists Israel’s unique privileges:
Paul says these belong to Israel according to the flesh, not “spiritual Israel.”
Romans 11:1-2 - He straight-up asks:
That alone dismantles the idea that Israel’s identity or covenantal role ended at 70 AD.
Romans 11:25-29 – Paul says a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, and then, “All Israel will be saved… For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.”
You cant spiritualize that away without gutting Paul’s argument. He’s saying national Israel’s hardening is temporary, not permanent.
So yes - the remnant right now is defined by faith, but Paul still looks forward to a future restoration of ethnic Israel once the fullness of the Gentiles is complete.
In other words, your quoting Romans 9-11 to say “Israel’s done”, but Paul wrote Romans 9-11 to say “Israel’s not done yet.”
Nice straw-man fallacy.
Be a shame if someone ignored the misrepresentation.
Something else to consider.
Revelation was written after 70 AD, which means Jerusalem clearly still matters.
John calls the harlot “the great city where our Lord was crucified” (Rev 11:8). That’s Jerusalem, not Rome. And the Beast turning on her (Rev 17:16) shows that she still plays a prophetic role right up until the end.
So unless you’re a full preterist who thinks Revelation already happened, you kinda have to admit - Jerusalem’s still on God’s stage
Pretty sure Revelation was written before 70 AD given its many references to the temple, and complete lack of any mention of its destruction.
I’m pretty sure it wasn’t 😬
You can't explain all the verses in Revelation which state that everything will happen soon (1:1, 1:3, 1:7, 22:10) unless you place its writing before it all happened in 70 AD.
Revelation was written before 70AD:
We'll use Scripture, history, and a bit of sanctified common sense to prove it:
John describes the Temple as if it’s still up and running:
Now, if you’re writing after A.D. 70, when Titus had just turned the Temple into a smoldering pile of rocks, you don’t talk about “measuring” it unless you’re in the mood for dark comedy. John treats the Temple as present reality, not ancient history. The text gives no hint that the Temple had already been destroyed—which would’ve been the most seismic event in Jewish and Christian life since Sinai.
So unless John just forgot to mention that whole city-on-fire thing, we’re looking at a pre-70 date.
Revelation 17:10 talks about seven kings:
If you start counting from Julius Caesar, the sixth emperor—the one who “is”—is Nero. Nero ruled from A.D. 54 to 68, which means John was writing when Nero was still breathing, fiddling, and lighting up Christians as backyard torches. That’s not a bad chronological marker.
And the “number of the beast” (666)? Add up the Hebrew letters for Neron Caesar (נרון קסר), and you get—you guessed it—666. You can’t make this stuff up. That fits Nero, not some European bureaucrat with a fondness for microchips.
John wasn’t writing like a man describing events thousands of years down the road. He said things were about to happen soon:
You can try to stretch “shortly” until it means “a few thousand years from now,” but that’s about as honest as calling your toddler “almost ready for college” because he can hold a crayon. The plain sense is that John expected fulfillment in his generation.
Revelation is sent to seven real churches in Asia Minor. These weren’t prophecy hobbyists waiting to decode barcodes; they were actual congregations facing persecution from Rome and apostate Jerusalem. John writes to them about what they would soon endure. If it was all about some future one-world government in the 21st century, it would’ve been as comforting to them as reading the ingredients list on a box of cereal in Greek.
The years leading up to 70 A.D. were a smoldering fuse of rebellion, persecution, and apocalyptic fever. Christians were being hunted by both Jews and Romans. False messiahs were popping up faster than presidential candidates in election season. Revelation reads like a front-row commentary on that chaos.
The “great city” that “spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified” (11:8) can’t be Rome—it’s Jerusalem. And the judgment scenes fit perfectly with Jesus’ own Olivet prophecy (Matthew 24), which specifically predicted Jerusalem’s fall within “this generation.”
While some later writers (like Irenaeus) placed Revelation in Domitian’s reign (90s A.D.), that tradition is weak tea. Irenaeus’ Greek is ambiguous—it may refer to John himself being seen in Domitian’s time, not the vision being received then. And other early evidence (such as Clement of Alexandria and the Syriac versions) points earlier.
When you weigh the internal evidence, it’s about as one-sided as a sumo match.
Conclusion: Revelation Was the Finale of the Old Covenant
Revelation isn’t about spaceships, scorpions, or Vladimir Putin’s birthmark. It’s about the end of the Old Covenant order—the divorce decree of unfaithful Israel and the coronation of the true Bride, the Church. It’s the fireworks show of redemptive history, announcing that Christ has taken His throne and the Temple system has been permanently retired.
So yes, Revelation was written before 70 A.D.—and what it describes isn’t a future collapse of Western civilization, but the old Jerusalem’s judgment and the new Jerusalem’s dawn.
Revelation isn’t a crystal ball for newspaper eschatology; it’s the victory parade after the Cross, marching straight through the rubble of the Temple.