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LateToTheShow 1 point ago +1 / -0

If we allow the Bible to interpret itself, we find a strong textual argument for the harlot being Jerusalem. Let’s first take a look at how Israel is depicted in the Old Testament.

In the Old Testament, Jerusalem is metaphorically depicted as an unfaithful or adulterous woman due to its spiritual infidelity. These passages illustrate this imagery:

  1. Isaiah 1:21: "How the faithful city has become a whore, she who was full of justice! Righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers."

  2. Hosea 9:1: "Do not rejoice, Israel; do not be jubilant like the other nations. For you have been unfaithful to your God; you love the wages of a prostitute at every threshing floor."

  3. Jeremiah 3:3: "Therefore the showers have been withheld, and the spring rain has not come; yet you have the forehead of a whore; you refuse to be ashamed."

  4. Jeremiah 2:20: "Long ago you broke off your yoke and tore off your bonds; you said, ‘I will not serve you!’ Indeed, on every high hill and under every spreading tree you lay down as a prostitute."

  5. Jeremiah 3:1-11: This passage depicts God's relationship with Israel as a marriage covenant, with Israel depicted as an unfaithful wife who has turned to other gods and nations for security and provision. The imagery includes descriptions of adultery and prostitution to convey Israel's spiritual unfaithfulness.

These passages use strong imagery to convey the idea of Jerusalem's unfaithfulness and apostasy, aligning with the depiction of the Harlot in Revelation 17 as symbolic of Jerusalem's corruption and unfaithfulness.

Now, let’s take a look at how the apostle John (the author of revelation) defines who the harlot is.

Great City = Harlot = Jerusalem: In Revelation 17:18, the angel explicitly states that the "woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth." This identification links the Harlot with the "great city," which earlier in Revelation is identified as Jerusalem (Revelation 11:8).

You really can’t get any clearer than that.

This interpretation of Jerusalem, being the harlot, who rides/controls the beast (the kings and nations of the Earth) lines up precisely with what we are seeing in the great awakening. People are awakening to the fact that the New World order is a Jewish led World order.

You’ll notice, however, that the beast she rides eventually turns on her and devours her or destroys her in a single day. I believe we are in the midst of this “turning“ currently. The turning equals the “great awakening.“

This all points to the fact that what we’ve been calling the “New World order” or “the beast“ is really the harlot system led by the Jews. The beast, however, is what ultimately destroys the harlot system (middle of revelation 17) and ushers in the reign of the antichrist.

Calling the harlot system the beast system is, I think, part of the great deception that Jesus talks about in Matthew 24 that will deceive even the elect if that were possible.

I may have gone a little too far in my description here, but I think I’ve answered your original question about how the harlot equals Jerusalem in revelation 17 and 18. We can talk a little bit more about the implications of this interpretation if you’d like

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LateToTheShow 1 point ago +1 / -0

Also again are we at least in agreement with the numbers in the graphic from the prior comment?

I think we can agree on the numbers, which is pretty simple math, but where we diverge is whether there is a gap between the 69th and 70th week, yes?

Thank you for the detailed list of influential scholars on both ends of the spectrum.

We may have to take a step back and address the underlying assumption that appears to be driving your views on eschatology (or avoiding some specific views of eschatology), namely, the assumption that the Jesuits are behind some conspiratorial distraction to keep us confused as to end time events, or at least who the Harlot is in Revelation.

I am convinced 100% that the Harlot in Revelation is not the RCC, but Jerusalem - and I can show this solely from the biblical text without making any prior assumptions.

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LateToTheShow 1 point ago +1 / -0

I found a graphic which quite easily portrays the timeline (this was not an easy find!): https://files.catbox.moe/i8ite8.jpeg

Yes, this is the classic Preterist interpretation of Daniels 70th week prophecy.

Let's try a different angle and see what we can find from other scriptural references regarding the Antichrist and his actions as they pertain to stopping sacrifices and the Abomination of Desolation (AoD). This may shed some light on why the "he" in Dan 9:27 most likely refers to the AC, not Jesus, thus confirming a gap (commonly referred to the Church Age or the Times of the Gentiles [see Luke 21:24]) of an unspecified period of time between the 69th and 70th week.

  1. "He will confirm a covenant": The identity of the one who confirms the covenant is not explicitly stated in Daniel 9:27. Some argue, as you do, that it refers to the Messiah (Jesus) based on interpretations that the "covenant" refers to the new covenant in Christ's blood (Luke 22:20). However, this is not directly stated in Daniel 9:27.

  2. "In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering": The phrase "middle of the 'seven'" implies a period of time, possibly three and a half years into a seven-year period. This event is often associated with the actions of the Antichrist. However, the direct connection between this event and the Antichrist is not explicitly stated in Daniel 9:27 but is inferred based on other passages in the Bible that describe the actions of the Antichrist

Daniel 7:25: He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.

Daniel 11:31: His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4: Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

When considering the verses above mentioning this "man" it becomes clearer that these are the actions of the Antichrist and not Jesus. If not Jesus, then there must be a gap between the 69th and 70th week. And that means we are currently in this gap - albeit nearing the end of this period quickly.

Dont feel alone in your searches through ancient prophecies trying to understand the times. You are in some good company, for even the OT prophets searched these predictions trying to figure out when they would occur:

Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully, inquiring what person or time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories. It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in the things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look.

~ 1 Peter 1:10-12

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LateToTheShow 5 points ago +5 / -0

I think this is a comm of some sort. Wonder what damning information is being released this weekend?

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LateToTheShow 6 points ago +6 / -0

Yeah, makes me wonder what damning information is going to be released this weekend?

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LateToTheShow 1 point ago +1 / -0

I don't believe there is a gap in the 70 weeks.

I appreciate your willingness to engage with these complex topics. Forgive me for the long reply here, but these subjects require a little more explanation than normal.

Regarding the 70 weeks prophecy in Daniel, while you maintain there is no gap, the text itself may provide evidence for a gap between the 69th and 70th week.

In Daniel 9:27, the prophecy states, "And he will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven,' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple, he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

This prophecy aligns with other passages that speak of the "abomination of desolation," a key event in end-times prophecy. Jesus Himself referred to this event in Matthew 24:15-21, linking it to a future time of great tribulation: "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains... For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again."

The apostle Paul also references the "abomination of desolation" in his letters, specifically in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, where he speaks of a future event:

"Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God."

That passage aligns with the concept of the abomination of desolation, where a figure of great evil (the Antichrist) will desecrate the temple in Jerusalem during a future period of tribulation.

Paul's mention of this event as something yet to come, along with similar passages in the New Testament, supports the idea that certain aspects of end-times prophecy, such as the 70th week of Daniel and the abomination of desolation, are still awaiting fulfillment. This reinforces the futurist interpretation of these prophecies, suggesting that they will be fulfilled in a future period of tribulation preceding Christ's return.

The description of the great tribulation in Matthew 24 and other passages (such as Revelation 7:14) portrays a period of unprecedented suffering and turmoil that has not yet been fulfilled in history. This, of course, aligns with a futurist interpretation of end-times events, suggesting that the 70th week of Daniel, including the abomination of desolation, is yet to come.

Furthermore, the idea of a gap within a prophetic timeline is not unprecedented in biblical prophecy. For example, in Luke 4:16-21, Jesus reads from the scroll of Isaiah and stops mid-sentence, implying a gap in the fulfillment of that prophecy. He reads, "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor." He then stops before reading, "and the day of vengeance of our God." This "gap" suggests that the fulfillment of the latter part of this prophecy has a future aspect, which aligns with the concept of a gap in the 70 weeks prophecy.

One thing to keep in mind when discussing Hebrew prophecy is that the Church Age, which was not fully revealed to the Old Testament prophets, introduces the possibility of gaps in biblical prophecy. The concept of the Church Age as a mystery is a significant aspect of biblical theology. The apostle Paul, in Ephesians 3:4-6, describes this mystery as the inclusion of the Gentiles in God's redemptive plan through faith in Christ. He explains that this mystery was not made known to previous generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles and prophets.

This imagery can be likened to looking at two distant mountain peaks - one behind the other - without being able to see the valley between them. The Old Testament prophets, while they foresaw the coming of the Messiah and the establishment of God's kingdom, did not have a clear view of the Church Age—the period between Christ's first and second comings—where the Gentiles would be included as fellow heirs with the Jews in the body of Christ.

This hidden period, in which Gentiles are included in God's plan of salvation through faith in Christ, was gradually unveiled through the teachings of Jesus and the apostles. This theological insight suggests that there may be gaps or undisclosed periods in other prophecies, especially concerning the timing and nature of future events, awaiting fulfillment in God's sovereign timing.

Considering the above points, do you see the possibility that the 70th week of Daniel, including the abomination of desolation, is yet future and part of a future tribulation period?

"To me it seems all weeks are accounted for, with the final week being the 3.5 years to execution / resurrection and the stoning of Steven (end of Israel only, beginning of Gospel to all nations) followed by the next 3.5 years, whatever happened then. I don't understand why this last week magically disappears and lasts for undetermined amount of time when all the others had a set time."

The interpretation you've presented suggests that the entire 70th week of Daniel's prophecy was fulfilled in the events surrounding the stoning of Stephen and the subsequent spread of the Gospel to the Gentiles. However, there are several reasons why this view faces challenges in aligning with the biblical text:

  1. Duration of the 70th Week: The prophecy in Daniel 9:27 indicates that the 70th week would be a seven-year period (one 'seven' in biblical language often denotes a week of years, i.e., seven years). The idea that the 70th week was split into two parts with a gap between them, as you suggest, is not explicitly supported by the text.

  2. Specific Events in the 70th Week: The events described in Daniel 9:27 for the 70th week, such as the confirming of a covenant and the setting up of the abomination of desolation, are typically understood in a future eschatological context and have not been historically fulfilled in the manner you describe.

  3. Jesus' Ministry and the 70th Week: Your view suggests that the ministry of Jesus and the subsequent events, including the stoning of Stephen, encompassed the entire 70th week. However, this timeline does not align with the chronology presented in the Gospels or the book of Acts.

  4. Continuity of the Prophecy: The prophecy in Daniel 9 concerning the 70 weeks is presented as a continuous timeline leading up to the Messiah. Interpreting the 70th week as having been partially fulfilled in the past and then halted for an extended period of time raises questions about the continuity and coherence of the prophecy.

In light of these considerations, it seems that the interpretation you've offered, while seeking to make sense of the timeline of events, may not fully align with the details and structure of the 70 weeks prophecy as presented in Daniel 9.

edit- forgot to reply to the OT heavenly bodies language parts... what came to me on this is that these references probably had meanings already assigned to them which were only known by the faithful remnant of Israel and these were shown to John and so he wrote Revelation with them, and of course Christ knew, and also used them. I bet they all reference the same things, all the way through, and I don't think they mean the actual stars, sun, or moon. I bet God can be quite cheeky and clever if He wants to keep something hidden, even using something with parallel earthly phenomena such as solar and lunar eclipses to veil coded language with, sort of like a double-veil.

The concept of cosmic language in apocalyptic literature referring to times of great judgment is not unique to the Bible but is a common feature in ancient Near Eastern and Jewish apocalyptic texts. For example, in the Book of Enoch, similar cosmic imagery is used to depict eschatological events. The darkening of the sun and moon, and the falling of stars, are used symbolically to signify the collapse of earthly powers and the arrival of divine judgment.

Moreover, in the broader context of ancient Near Eastern literature, cosmic phenomena were often seen as omens or signs of significant events, including divine intervention or the overthrow of rulers. These cosmic signs were believed to herald a time of great change or upheaval in the world.

Therefore, interpreting the cosmic language in Revelation and other apocalyptic texts as having a hidden or secret meaning beyond their symbolic value as indicators of divine judgment is not necessary. The use of such imagery is a literary device employed to convey the dramatic and transformative nature of the events described in these texts, rather than indicating a hidden code or esoteric meaning.

I know I've said a lot here. Much to ruminate on. No need to rush on a response. I do enjoy, however, this exchange and the respectful manner in which you’re engaging. It's refreshing!

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LateToTheShow 2 points ago +2 / -0

Thank you for your detailed response! I’d like to point out a few points of agreement:

1.Historical Empires: Your outline of the historical empires aligns with mainstream historical and biblical scholarship.

2.Daniel’s Fourth Beast: Your identification of the fourth beast as the Roman Empire and its continuity in Western Europe is consistent with classical dispensationalism.

3.Daniel’s 70 Weeks: Your interpretation of Daniel’s 70 weeks aligns with the belief that Jesus fulfilled this prophecy through His ministry and sacrifice.

4.Matthew 24 Interpretation: Your view that the Great Tribulation in Matthew 24 refers to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD is in line with a Preterist understanding.

5.Symbolism in Revelation: Your symbolic interpretation of Revelation’s imagery corresponds to a common approach to understanding apocalyptic literature.

While we find agreement on these points, it’s intriguing to observe that your views actually incorporate elements of both Preterism and Dispensationalism, concepts you suggest were invented by Jesuits to distract from Rome.

Additionally, the cosmic apocalyptic imagery in Revelation, such as the darkening of the sun and the falling stars, bears a striking resemblance to the prophetic language used by Amos and other OT prophets as well as mentioned by Jesus in the Olivet Discourse, suggesting a dual fulfillment—one in the contemporary context and another in the future return of Christ.

  1. Revelation:

    • Revelation 6:12-14: "I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place."

    • Revelation 8:12: "The fourth angel sounded his trumpet, and a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them turned dark. A third of the day was without light, and also a third of the night."

  2. Amos:

    • Amos 5:18-20: "Woe to you who long for the day of the Lord! Why do you long for the day of the Lord? That day will be darkness, not light. It will be as though a man fled from a lion only to meet a bear, as though he entered his house and rested his hand on the wall only to have a snake bite him. Will not the day of the Lord be darkness, not light—pitch-dark, without a ray of brightness?"
  3. Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24):

    • Matthew 24:29: "Immediately after the distress of those days 'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'"

(Here are some other OT references using the exact same wording:

  1. Isaiah 13:10: "The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light."

  2. Isaiah 24:23: "The moon will be dismayed, the sun ashamed; for the LORD Almighty will reign on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem, and before its elders—with great glory."

  3. Isaiah 34:4: "All the stars in the sky will be dissolved and the heavens rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree."

  4. Ezekiel 32:7-8: "When I snuff you out, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon will not give its light. All the shining lights in the heavens I will darken over you)

It's also worth noting that the apostle John, the author of Revelation, often draws his imagery from the Jewish Old Testament. The Old Testament serves as a key that unlocks the meaning of many symbols and visions in Revelation

Given this context, what are your thoughts on the gap between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel’s prophecy? Do you see scriptural support for the idea that we are currently in that gap, and that the 70th week will be fulfilled during the time of Jacob’s trouble or the great tribulation?

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LateToTheShow 1 point ago +1 / -0

Thank you for answering. Helps me understand a little better where you're coming from, and I agree with most of what you say.

I didn't say they were all fulfilled, I was mainly thinking of Daniel's 70 weeks and the Olivet Discourse.

Could you expand on your interpretation of these prophecies and explain why you believe they have already been fulfilled?

Are you aware of the concept of dual fulfillment in Hebrew prophecy, where a prophecy may have an immediate fulfillment in the historical context it was given, as well as a future fulfillment?

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LateToTheShow 3 points ago +3 / -0

I remember standing in my bank, looking at the floor which was riddled with stickers that said:

"Stand together by standing apart."

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LateToTheShow 0 points ago +2 / -2

In the meantime, since you won’t give me an indication what eschatological camp you landed in, I’ll have to ask some clarifying questions to get a better feel for where you’re coming from;

  1. How do you explain the ongoing existence of evil and suffering if all biblical prophecies were fulfilled in the past?

  2. Why do we still see the growth of Christianity if all biblical prophecies, including about the Kingdom of God, were fulfilled in the first century?

  3. How do you interpret passages that seem to describe a future judgment and resurrection of the dead?

  4. Why has the expectation of Christ’s return persisted throughout history if all prophecy was fulfilled in the past?

  5. How do you explain the unrealized events described in Revelation, such as the defeat of evil and the establishment of a new heaven and earth?

  6. Do you think this view diminishes the hope and urgency of the Christian message regarding Christ’s return and the final redemption of creation?

Just to give you a heads up: After 2000 years of church history, it’s highly unlikely you’ve landed in some nuanced, “new” eschatological framework.

[EDIT]

It’s important I clarify that no single end-times framework can perfectly accommodate every passage about the end times. However, some frameworks align more accurately with the overall biblical narrative than others.

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LateToTheShow 8 points ago +8 / -0

Probably cause the people filming are also Feds and part of the show. 🤷‍♂️

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LateToTheShow 1 point ago +1 / -0

To put it another way:

What we're seeing being exposed today (the Jewish led, Zionist NWO aka "The Harlot") is one big, global, spiritual false flag, designed by Satan, to unite the world against Israel and usher in the real NWO. A world order that everyone will welcome and embrace willingly.

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LateToTheShow 2 points ago +2 / -0

What if the Old Testament as we know it today has been manipulated to misdirect modern day Christians and Jews?

That's an interesting thought, but the idea that the Old Testament has been manipulated to misdirect modern Christians and Jews is not widely supported by scholars. The Jewish rejection of Jesus as the Messiah is based on theological differences and interpretations of scripture, rather than deliberate manipulation of the text.

It's important to recognize that the Old Testament was established as a sacred text long before Jesus' birth. The Hebrew Bible was already well-established and widely respected within Jewish communities by the time of Jesus. The preservation of the Hebrew Bible has been a meticulous process among Jewish scribes and scholars, with strict measures in place to ensure accurate copying and transmission of the text.

While variations exist among ancient manuscripts, the core teachings and narratives of the Old Testament remain consistent across different versions and translations. So, while it's natural to question and explore the complexities of religious texts and interpretations, the idea of a deliberate manipulation to misdirect regarding Jesus requires substantial evidence and scholarly consensus, which is currently lacking.

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LateToTheShow 1 point ago +1 / -0

Yes!

The Beast system is what gives rise to the Anti-Christ. The Beast system will be ushered in as something "good." And what is being heralded as "good" currently? Exposing and destroying the "evil" that has been controlling us for centuries/millenniums.

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LateToTheShow 1 point ago +1 / -0

Almost. Combine those two and you have the Harlot System.

The Beast System is the (worldwide) Alliance against the Harlot (Jerusalem) ultimately destroying her (Revelation 18).

Part of the difficulty in seeing this deception is that the Harlot system is continually called the Beast system. This is inaccurate (on purpose). The Beast system will be seen as a "good" system because it will be destroying the "evil" system we are currently living under (Harlot).

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LateToTheShow 1 point ago +1 / -0

Could it be that "the synagogue of Satan" is not a reference to a particular ethnic or religious group but rather to those who oppose the true followers of Christ, regardless of their background or heritage?

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LateToTheShow 2 points ago +2 / -0

A scheme that reveals how the actions of all nations in the world are dominated at one and the same time by the operators of the religion of Judaism

In Revelation 17 we find a woman (Harlot) riding a Beast with multiple heads (Kings/Nations of the Earth). The apostle John clearly defines who the Harlot is:

Revelation 11:8: "And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified." This verse describes the "great city" as Jerusalem, where Jesus was crucified.

Revelation 17:18: "And the woman [Harlot] that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth." This verse is part of the description of the Harlot, and identifies the Harlot with Jerusalem as the "great city."

So, the Harlot = Jerusalem who rides/controls the beast, just as the above quote says. The Jews "dominate the nations."

This is Biblical Prophecy unraveling before our very eyes.

Now, what happens to the Harlot? Consider what John goes on to say in the same chapter (chapter 17, you say?):

The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute [Harlot]. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to hand over to the beast their royal authority, until God’s words are fulfilled. The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.” (Revelation 17:16-18).

We are witnessing the "hating the prostitute" [Harlot] who is Jerusalem. This is "The Great Awakening."

Do not be deceived fellow believers (for there is a great deception in the works so as to deceive even the elect if that were possible, which Jesus spoke about in Matthew 24): The Jewish led, Zionist NWO that the world is "waking up to" is not the Beast System - it's the Harlot System. The Beast system is what destroys the Harlot System and ushers in the reign of the Anti-Christ.

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LateToTheShow 1 point ago +1 / -0

Great question! Here are some key prophecies from the Bible concerning the re-establishment of Israel and the events associated with it:

  1. Regathering of Israel:

    • Isaiah 11:11-12: The Lord will regather the dispersed of Israel from the four corners of the earth.
    • Ezekiel 36:24: The people of Israel will be gathered back to their own land.
  2. Re-establishment of Israel as a Nation:

    • Ezekiel 37:21-22: The Lord will bring the Israelites back to the land of Israel and make them one nation.
    • Amos 9:14-15: The Lord will restore the fortunes of Israel and rebuild the cities.
  3. Return of Jewish People to the Land:

    • Jeremiah 31:7-10: The Lord will gather the remnant of Israel from the ends of the earth.
    • Zechariah 8:7-8: The Lord will bring his people back to dwell in Jerusalem.
  4. Rebuilding of the Temple:

    • Ezekiel 37:26-28: The Lord will establish a sanctuary in the midst of Israel forever.
    • Daniel 9:27: Prophecy of a future temple being desecrated by the Antichrist.
  5. Conflict and Peace:

    • Ezekiel 38-39: Prophecy of Gog and Magog, a great future war against Israel followed by a time of peace.
    • Zechariah 12:2-3: Jerusalem will be a burdensome stone for all peoples, leading to conflict and ultimately the establishment of God's kingdom.
  6. Conversion and Spiritual Renewal:

    • Zechariah 12:10: The people of Israel will look on Him whom they have pierced and mourn for Him.
    • Romans 11:25-27: All Israel will be saved, and the fullness of the Gentiles will come in.
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