No true believers will worship the beast. image or take his 'mark':
Revelation 13:8
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Revelation 14:9
Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Revelation 17:8
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Revelation 20:15
And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Right, but you are missing the point; the actual point of the overarching discussion is; is it a violation of the 2nd Commandment to place a statue of Jesus on the WH Lawn. Or by logical extension; anywhere.
Some here seem to wildly believe that they not only disagree with placing a statue of Jesus on the WH lawn, but that creating a statue of Him is in fact a serious violation of Scripture; specifically the 2nd Commandment.
My whole point is; in the phrase you quoted;
hat the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.
I'll go out on a limb & reason that if you will be killed if you do NOT worship this image of the beast, that means the beast & his minions want you to worship the image of the beast...... following?
You then extrapolate that to mean; well, if the beast wants us to create iamges of him and worship them, then obviously statues of Jesus are also graven images and thus heretical / against the 2nd Commandment.
I follow what you're saying, that being said, Images are an important theme in history:
Dan.2:31 “You, O king, were watching; and behold, a great image! This great image, whose splendor was excellent, stood before you; and its form was awesome.
Dan.3:3 Nebuchadnezzar the king made an image of gold, whose height was sixty cubits and its width six cubits. He set it up in the plain of Dura, in the province of Babylon.
4 Then a herald cried aloud: “To you it is commanded, O peoples, nations, and languages, 5 that at the time you hear the sound of the horn, flute, harp, lyre, and psaltery, in symphony with all kinds of music, you shall fall down and worship the gold image that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up; 6 and whoever does not fall down and worship shall be cast immediately into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.”
Antiochus IV Epiphanes 215 bc—died 164,
Seleucid king (King of the North as will be the future antichrist)
In the Temple an altar to Zeus Olympios was erected, and sacrifices were to be made at the feet of an idol in the image of the King.
Edict to Erect Imperial Statue in Temple [39 AD]
Now Gaius (Caligula) bore a grudge for being ignored only by the Jews in this respect [i.e., honoring him as divine]. So he sent his legate, Petronius, to Syria to take the rule over from Vitellius and ordered him to lead a large force into Judea. If they received him willingly, he was to place a statue of (Caligula) in the temple of God. But if they treated him with arrogance, he still was to do this after mastering them in battle --- Josephus, Antiquities 18.261
Caligula's Death Averts War [41 AD]
Indeed, the Jews had given the appearance of rising up in revolt; (but) after the news of (Caligula's) murder there was no need for compliance (with his order). (Yet) fear remained that some emperor would command the same thing. --- Tacitus, Annals 12.343
FINAL ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION
Matt.24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
2Thess. 2:3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of [b]sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Rev.13:14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev.19:19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
Thanks for posting all this. I truly want to have a polite & respectful conversation, so of course my comments are with that in mind.
That said; what are these verses supposed to mean?
You can find a Bible verse to support literally just about ANY idea you might have; the left does it to us all the time. (Again; respectfully)
I appreciate you posting these verses, but - to my mind and from my perspective - these just reinforce my stance, which is that these are all examples of a whole lot of people creating graven images and forcing others to worship them, and not worshipping God / Jesus himself.
This sounds like people - humans - playing God / acting like God, and not actually following his will and way.
All these verses; how do they support your stance that having a mere statue of Jesus is a violation of the Second Commandment?
No true believers will worship the beast. image or take his 'mark':
Revelation 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Revelation 14:9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Revelation 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Revelation 20:15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Right, but you are missing the point; the actual point of the overarching discussion is; is it a violation of the 2nd Commandment to place a statue of Jesus on the WH Lawn. Or by logical extension; anywhere.
Some here seem to wildly believe that they not only disagree with placing a statue of Jesus on the WH lawn, but that creating a statue of Him is in fact a serious violation of Scripture; specifically the 2nd Commandment.
My whole point is; in the phrase you quoted;
I'll go out on a limb & reason that if you will be killed if you do NOT worship this image of the beast, that means the beast & his minions want you to worship the image of the beast...... following?
You then extrapolate that to mean; well, if the beast wants us to create iamges of him and worship them, then obviously statues of Jesus are also graven images and thus heretical / against the 2nd Commandment.
Are you following?
I follow what you're saying, that being said, Images are an important theme in history:
Dan.2:31 “You, O king, were watching; and behold, a great image! This great image, whose splendor was excellent, stood before you; and its form was awesome.
Dan.3:3 Nebuchadnezzar the king made an image of gold, whose height was sixty cubits and its width six cubits. He set it up in the plain of Dura, in the province of Babylon. 4 Then a herald cried aloud: “To you it is commanded, O peoples, nations, and languages, 5 that at the time you hear the sound of the horn, flute, harp, lyre, and psaltery, in symphony with all kinds of music, you shall fall down and worship the gold image that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up; 6 and whoever does not fall down and worship shall be cast immediately into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.”
Antiochus IV Epiphanes 215 bc—died 164, Seleucid king (King of the North as will be the future antichrist)
In the Temple an altar to Zeus Olympios was erected, and sacrifices were to be made at the feet of an idol in the image of the King.
Edict to Erect Imperial Statue in Temple [39 AD]
Now Gaius (Caligula) bore a grudge for being ignored only by the Jews in this respect [i.e., honoring him as divine]. So he sent his legate, Petronius, to Syria to take the rule over from Vitellius and ordered him to lead a large force into Judea. If they received him willingly, he was to place a statue of (Caligula) in the temple of God. But if they treated him with arrogance, he still was to do this after mastering them in battle --- Josephus, Antiquities 18.261
Caligula's Death Averts War [41 AD]
Indeed, the Jews had given the appearance of rising up in revolt; (but) after the news of (Caligula's) murder there was no need for compliance (with his order). (Yet) fear remained that some emperor would command the same thing. --- Tacitus, Annals 12.343
FINAL ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION
Matt.24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
2Thess. 2:3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of [b]sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Rev.13:14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev.19:19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
Thanks for posting all this. I truly want to have a polite & respectful conversation, so of course my comments are with that in mind.
That said; what are these verses supposed to mean? You can find a Bible verse to support literally just about ANY idea you might have; the left does it to us all the time. (Again; respectfully)
I appreciate you posting these verses, but - to my mind and from my perspective - these just reinforce my stance, which is that these are all examples of a whole lot of people creating graven images and forcing others to worship them, and not worshipping God / Jesus himself.
This sounds like people - humans - playing God / acting like God, and not actually following his will and way.
All these verses; how do they support your stance that having a mere statue of Jesus is a violation of the Second Commandment?
Did you take the JAB?
By the way Revelation 14:9 the MARK is THOUGHTS & ACTIONS---- HEAD-HAND
I am the Book of Life...a Written epistle of Christ in the Flesh, with out the Mark of the BEAST INSIDE ME