This is another thing I didn't get to touch on in my post because it was getting too long. Is that he has nonstop championed "freedom of speech", but at the same time has engaged in a lot of censorship. Many dissenting voiced were silenced throughout this whole debate.
Agreed. Him being a gray hat is the most likely assumption to me.
Having different opinions on face value is okay and I agree with your general sentiment. However, there is a matter of difference of opinions and then using leftist talking points to indicate that a significant percentage of MAGA is racist and needs to be rooted out. You don't join our movement and then start sounding the horns to clean our house. Those are the actions that flag him as a potential Trojan Horse figure for me.
It's a brain dead take because it assumes that we cannot pay attention to more than one issue at once. This is something that has been echoed and shut down here repeatedly. People are tired of hearing it.
What is your question even getting at? My original comment already answers this, it is obvious that I disagree with his overall conclusion.
Yes, because they are categorically false.
1.) There was real debate being had, and if you deny that then you are either being willfully ignorant or aren't paying close enough attention.
2.) "Heartache is being cause by "assuming" some extreme positions is bullshit.
- Elon himself said "we should greatly increase legal immigration"
- He also says in response to a post about America needing over 160k engineers by 2032, "No, we need more like double that number yesterday!" -Then goes on to give a bullshit explanation as to how there are not enough super talented and motivated engineers in the US as an excuse for ramped up H-1B. -This is not reflected in the data, when you look at the amount of tech layoffs that have been going on, the amount of engineers who can't find work, and the amount of new STEM graduates each year these numbers don't add up.
- Moreover, people have pulled data on his own companies and showed that he isn't using H-1B for the top .1% or the cream of the crop. His H-1B positions are entry level positions getting underpaid.
Agreed its such a "brain dead" take
I agree on that issue. We need a cooling off period, assimilation to our nation's culture and values is paramount.
Yeah it's crazy.
Agreed, people don't realize how big of an issue this really is and how much more it will grow if not fixed soon.
This isn't the case though, they are used because they're cheap not because they are higher quality and it's been that way since the program's inception.
Tell me where Q said trusting the plan meant to be a passive passenger in the process.
Also thinking people raising concerns about an issue equates to fixating on a single issue is nonsense. The outcome of people doing the opposite of what you're demanding the past few days has been a net positive.
But he didn't. He did just enough to make it appear "free speech", but he didn't follow through on many of his initial promises.
- Many accounts never got reinstated
- There is still shadow banning and other shady instances of censorship today
- Accounts were getting centered left and right all throughout this entire H-1B debate and Elon seemed to proudly admit to it:
- https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1872505498463039559
I'm not taking a hard position on Elon as of this time. Do I think he could be a full on White Hat? Maybe, but I have my doubts. Do I think he could be a useful chess piece for the White Hats? Yes, absolutely. Do I think he could be a Trojan Horse to the movement? Yes, it is definitely possible.
In the end the tree will be known by its fruits, and there is still time for things to play out. However, in the meantime we should trust nobody 100%. We should be loud, we should be vocal, and we should hold our leaders accountable. I do not think any of this is cause to be filled with doom either. I think a lot of anger on these boards, at least from my pov is people trying to shut down critical thought and anything that goes against the preferred narratives.
Initially he says we must greatly "INCREASE" the amount of legal immigration:
Then after a large firestorm of intense debate and people putting forth data and receipts he moves to a compromise. Before he might've mentioned reforms, but didn't put forth much specifics in response to criticism.
It was this guy's in-depth research into the past 5 years of H-1B data and its undeniable abuse that prompted Elon to respond about specific steps to reform:
- https://x.com/RobertMSterling/status/1873174358535110953
- https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1873191959441084531 "Elon's response at the end of the thread"
The heated debate and people actually presenting cold hard facts not only made the H-1B issues apparent in the public realm, but it also presented the situation for Elon to put forth specific proposals of reform that we can now track! Don't let people try to convince you that making our voices heard on key issues is not important. Even with those that we are supposed to "trust".
It is our duty as American citizens to stay informed and hold our leaders' feet to the fire. That is the only way we win in the end. The Q posts and "trust the plan" were never about being passive and hoping everything plays out alright. It was about keeping us from feeling desperate and resulting to violent action that could damage the movement. That doesn't mean we are to be silent passengers in the process. That is what the "operation trust" critics would levy against us.
"There is no actual debate" "Heartache is being cause by assuming some extreme positions"
Two incredibly wrong assertions that show either: A) you're not fully following everything that is happening, or B) you are dug into a position with unwillingness to see anything to the contrary.
If you look at this as simply as "H-1B visa division shit". You're either not paying full attention, thinking emotionally, or lack critical thinking skills.
No and I have been here for a long time. Even longer than gaw, going back to the original t_d days on reddit. Context matters. As many have pointed out over and over this wasn't started by the deep state. It was started with Elon himself.
Canada would like to have a word with you.
The majority of people aren't arguing against the idea of skilled immigration. They are arguing against the fact that the H-1B is being used as a vehicle for the exact opposite.
I mean it seems pretty apparent what post we are both referencing: https://x.com/VivekGRamaswamy/status/1872312139945234507?t=sY2ntPKE65BVRLvQFjxhsg&s=19
The problem isn't immigration, it is mass immigration. A nation cannot afford it and there were times we temporarily shut down immigration in the past. Assimilation is a big issue, and if you're mass importing from areas of the world that don't share our values that is a major way to erode our cultural fabric.
When people constantly cite "we are a nation of immigrants", it is often an appeal to emotion and a tactic used to mislead. It is also a shallow argument that ignores the complex nuance.
Trump also stated how bad the H-1B program was in 2016 and how badly it was being abused. I guess you don't remember what he said or watched his rallies either.
This is a big battle, this issue is more rampant than most realize, and if not solved will have a major ripple effect on our near future.
I definitely think the public discourse was meant to happen and needed to happen. On the bottom of the 5 year H-1B analysis thread, Elon actually put forth specific measures on how H-1B could be reformed. Which is a really good thing that came out of the heated debate.