His comment perfectly mirrors what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 4:1-4
[1] So look at Apollos and me as mere servants of Christ who have been put in charge of explaining God’s mysteries. [2] Now, a person who is put in charge as a manager must be faithful. [3] As for me, it matters very little how I might be evaluated by you or by any human authority. I don’t even trust my own judgment on this point. [4] My conscience is clear, but that doesn’t prove I’m right. It is the Lord himself who will examine me and decide.
This is among several other verses that make it quite clear that salvation can be lost. I explained more in my other comment above: https://greatawakening.win/p/17s5WE36ff/x/c/4Z7SQaZWBzI
Further, Satan and his demons also accept that Jesus Christ is the living Son of God who died on the cross to defeat sin and death. They don't go to hell because they don't believe, they go to hell because they reject Christ in their will. They go to Hell because they are evil, and don't obey God.
So if we're evil too (we are; sin nature), and we also believe, the only thing that would separate us from the demons is not belief, but obeying God.
The Bible is clear, everlasting life is available to those who believe
So demons? Demons don't just believe Christ is He, they know it. They were there from the beginning and chose to rebel with full knowledge of what they were doing.
And my comment here provides some verses to the contrary: https://greatawakening.win/p/17s5WE36ff/x/c/4Z7SQaZWBzI
Who is us?
If it is everyone, then Joe Biden gets to go to heaven and meet all the kids he sniffed without so much as needing to repent or even believe in God.
If it isn't everyone, then what do we have to do for that verse to apply to us? Believe in Christ? Do I really believe in someone if I refuse to do anything they told me to do? I mean, even the demons believe in Christ. They know He is Lord. They know He rose from the dead. They just reject Him anyway.
So if actually doing what Christ tells us is required, how can I know I am saved?
Not to levy any disrespect, truly, but is Andrew Farley as clear on the subject as Paul is:
Romans 11:17-24 NLT [17] But some of these branches from Abraham’s tree—some of the people of Israel—have been broken off. And you Gentiles, who were branches from a wild olive tree, have been grafted in. So now you also receive the blessing God has promised Abraham and his children, sharing in the rich nourishment from the root of God’s special olive tree. [18] But you must not brag about being grafted in to replace the branches that were broken off. You are just a branch, not the root.
[19] “Well,” you may say, “those branches were broken off to make room for me.” [20] Yes, but remember—those branches were broken off because they didn’t believe in Christ, and you are there because you do believe. So don’t think highly of yourself, but fear what could happen. [21] For if God did not spare the original branches, he won’t spare you either. [22] Notice how God is both kind and severe. He is severe toward those who disobeyed, but kind to you if you continue to trust in his kindness. But if you stop trusting, you also will be cut off. [23] And if the people of Israel turn from their unbelief, they will be grafted in again, for God has the power to graft them back into the tree. [24] You, by nature, were a branch cut from a wild olive tree. So if God was willing to do something contrary to nature by grafting you into his cultivated tree, he will be far more eager to graft the original branches back into the tree where they belong.
1 Corinthians 9:27 NLT I discipline my body like an athlete, training it to do what it should. Otherwise, I fear that after preaching to others I myself might be disqualified.
1 Corinthians 4:1-4 NLT [1] So look at Apollos and me as mere servants of Christ who have been put in charge of explaining God’s mysteries. [2] Now, a person who is put in charge as a manager must be faithful. [3] As for me, it matters very little how I might be evaluated by you or by any human authority. I don’t even trust my own judgment on this point. [4] My conscience is clear, but that doesn’t prove I’m right. It is the Lord himself who will examine me and decide.
How about Jesus:
Matthew 24:9-13 NLT [9] “Then you will be arrested, persecuted, and killed. You will be hated all over the world because you are my followers. [10] And many will turn away from me and betray and hate each other. [11] And many false prophets will appear and will deceive many people. [12] Sin will be rampant everywhere, and the love of many will grow cold. [13] But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
If to repent is to turn away from sin and to God, then what would it mean to turn away from God?
If only those who endure to the end are saved, how can salvation be assured?
See, these kinds of views always just end up being veiled rebellion against God.
There is no justifiable claim to Jesus not existing. Him not being God is one thing, but He existed regardless.
Also, what about all the NDEs concerning Hell?
Also, also, NDEs are near for a reason. The person didn't die. There may be cases where the person truly died, went to heaven or hell, and then God returned them, but in most of these cases it's likely just tricks of the mind. Just because the body isn't all there is doesn't mean it doesn't have a profound impact on our perceptions.
Hell will be chock full of sinners who rejected God, and Heaven will be chock full of sinners who repented and followed God.
You may not read the Bible, but it sure is reading you!
Wow, what a perfect way to word this thought.
And it's so true, for all the people who reject the Bible or don't truly understand it, who can't see or hear, the Bible truly understands them (and not just in an "of course they'd write that when fabricating the Bible" kind of way).
I was in a similar place as you a little over a year ago.
I said out loud to who or whatever may have been listening, but for all I knew it was to only myself: "I want to believe, but I just don't".
After that I started reading the Bible more and more, and had a general, but strange, sense that everything I was reading was true, or at least might as well be true. I mean, why not? Then a few months later I again took stock of my view and realized I could earnestly say "I believe".
And the easy answer to "why evil" is free will, though I find it hard to believe you haven't heard that one before if you've ever asked these questions before.
I'll instead ask: Have you really had every shitty bounce in life? Do your legs work? Do you eyes? Are you homeless? Is there anything good in your life? If so, why?
God is goodness. All good comes from God. Even if you don't believe in God, if we're going to argue from the position that He does, this is true. So while bad things may exist, and you could blame that on God if you want to, it requires ignoring the good things to conclude God isn't good (because an evil or cruel God wouldn't have made ANYTHING good).
And I don't see how it's rational to conclude that God doesn't exist because everything is not perfect, since that presupposes a bunch of things that may not be true. The real question is not "does imperfection disprove God?", it's "does God exist?"
I'd say the only reasonable answer to the latter question is yes. Once you get there, it's about making imperfection make sense. Is God evil? Is he cruel? Or is there some reason that these exist that we may not understand fully? Or is the reason they exist independent from God's will?
Another thing is that if you're going to entertain the idea that God exists, you can't really ask "why doesn't He impede on free will to stop evil" as a qualifying question. You can ask it, but the reality is that He demonstrably doesn't, and so the only real option is to try to figure out if He's real from within that perspective. To entertain God's existence, we must understand that if He exists, He is fully compatible with observable reality.
We can wonder why He doesn't do certain things, but we can't use that as a reason to conclude He's not real.
And finally, think about this: If God is goodness itself, and not believing in God separates us from Him, we are in effect separating ourselves from goodness.
You can say this sounds cruel; "worship me or suffer!", but again is it true? If God made us to worship Him, and we instead rejected Him and are now guilty and sentenced to death for rejecting Him, it doesn't really matter how we see it. That being the case, ultimately only repenting and finding God what will free us from the chains and consequences of sin.
And as a side note, that wouldn't be God making us suffer as punishment, but us choosing to suffer by willfully separating ourselves from God.
I was in the same place as you a little over a year ago.
I said out loud to who or whatever may have been listening, but for all I knew it was to only myself, "I want to believe, but I just don't".
After that I started reading the Bible more and more, and had a general, but strange, sense that everything I was reading might as well be true. I mean, why not? Then a few months later I again took stock of my view and realized I could earnestly say "I believe".
What if God through the Holy Spirit is exercising His authority through the priesthood of the Church?
How would you know?
I think it's quite clear that if the Holy Spirit was authoritatively guiding Christians in a personal manner, that there wouldn't be such a variety of beliefs between "denominations".
I agree that the New Testament is clearly built on the Old Testament. And in the OT, we are told that the man is the leader (has final say) of his household/family. Surely then it's plausible to believe that the Church is the leader (has final say) on matters of faith and doctrine.
After all, there is nothing new under the sun. The Bible prefigures everything.
Monarchies are not inherently communist. Nothing about having a king implies communism. Dude could be an ultra-capitalist and still be king. He could be king and impose lower taxes on his citizens than we have in America, and have barely a government to speak of.
Communists destroyed the monarchies.
I don't know, but so far all I'm getting is "queen = bad".
I got it and thought it was pretty clear, for what it's worth, fren.
You're providing the material, I'm just making the observations ;)
I guess you just like responding with substanceless drivel to feel better about yourself or something. To each their own, I suppose.
Yea, except for the fact that in probably the majority of cases it's minors having sex with other minors.
Your God complex is extremely apparent. You aren't beholden to actually arguing your position, because you have unilaterally declared without evidence or reason that the other argument is bad.
And you also mustn't even read the other guy's argument, since you already know everything you need to about it... somehow...
Quite laughable that you don't see the contradiction in not reading what I wrote and then claiming that what I wrote isn't a good argument. And if you did read past "all the Jews became Christians", you're an intellectually dishonest dolt.
I guess you just like responding with substanceless drivel to feel better about yourself or something. To each their own, I suppose.
One can hope kek
It is interesting that despite presenting it as crazy QAnon shit, in the end Santa was right.
Strange how he went from "I'm not really Santa and I just guessed" to "nevermind I'm immune to bullets hohoho!"
Sort of vindicates him and everything he said.
Preciously. You think you are God. It's an ego problem. You go to the absolute extreme of rejecting authority, and reject the authority of the word of God. You wouldn't even believe any of what you do without both the Church and the Bible. I've never heard someone who subscribes to your position give a plausible argument for why God wouldn't preserve His word in an authoritative manner, but would instead rely on us trying to decipher truth exclusively through our obviously fallible faculties.
Also, if you could access the Holy Spirit to learn doctrine, you would come to the same conclusions on a given topic as all these other people who claim they can access the Holy Spirit to learn doctrine, yet who come to completely different conclusions on any given topic.
Now, what about the verse that says God will preserve His word? What has the Holy Spirit told you about that one? True? Or false?
Another question would be: does the Holy Spirit ever tell you things that you are vehemently opposed to (such as how you are opposed to everything I am saying)? Or does everything more or less mesh with what you already believe?
Look, I don't know man, maybe you're right and I'm wrong. But there is a very real possibility that your "Holy Spirit" is in fact a spirit, but that of a demon. Are you really so certain it's not? How would you know?
How literate are you?
Or are you so triggered you couldn't read two more sentences to see the point I was making?
It's quite clear you've got nothing. Otherwise, you'd pose a single counterargument to anything I just claimed, instead of a baseless dismissal of all my arguments without so much as an attempt at refuting them.
It really is the most excruciating "I told you so" ever. And every time we learn something new, it just compounds the desire for truth to come to light.
Merry Christmas to you as well, fren.
Yes, you are.
That's fair. I sort of realized that was the tone before sending my message, but didn't really know how to reframe it. Figured I'd just put out my view in all its bluntness.
Now, my usual answer is that older doesn't mean better.
If Christianity is 100% true, it makes sense that different, but false versions of true things would crop up. A global flood I'd say is easy to explain: Noah and his family knew the story, told their kids, and eventually it got telephone-gamed into oblivion.
The trinity is harder, but I'd argue that trinities are ever present in our world. They can be found everywhere. If this is one of God's marks on His creation, I don't find it surprising certain peoples have discovered this common occurrence and misidentified what it is or its ultimate meaning. It's also possible that Adam and Eve knew of the trinity before the fall, and that this one is another case of the telephone game.
Now, for a hypothetical example, if something happens to me and I tell the story to my kids, and they tell their kids, and they tell their kids, eventually the story will change. Now my great-grandkids don't know the true story, but have bits and pieces. Luckily for them, I'm an old motherfucker and am still around, so I can tell them the true story. Also luckily for them, my memory is still great in my old age. So now, I've given them the original story as it happened, which is of course going to clash with some of the changes the story went through getting passed down the chain.
To make it even closer, let's say my great-grandkids write it down. Then 5 generations later, I'm a ghost with perfect knowledge of my life and I appear to one of my children to tell him the true story. Then they all starting using that version. Now 5 more generations later the original is discovered despite the fact everyone was happily using my version. The original is 10 generations old, while mine was only written 5 generations back. But mine is true and the 10-generation-old "original" one isn't.
I suppose all of that is to say: God set the record straight with the Bible.
Nevertheless, it's possible that the Bible ripped off these older writings, but I see no reason that's more likely than the alternative I present. We don't know for certain, and it'd be foolish to assume that older is automatically better. So all we can do is look at all the evidence, and I've certainly seen enough evidence to believe Christianity independent of all these things. The Gospels are compelling, and, for me at least, evidently true. Once that is established, I suppose the rest comes as a matter of faith based on the evidence that lead me to such beliefs.
Interestingly, I was just watching a video that poses some compelling evidence for the location of several of the stories in the Old Testament. They line up perfectly with the Bible's version of events. These locations fuse evidence of historical events with what is written down in one of these ancient texts.
This was the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIpvIVLQ2Dk
I actually got kind of burnt out after watching the first two parts and was going to call it quits, but now you've got me wanting to finish it. So thanks I guess, :)
Not to be uncharitable, but the Protestant insistence on Sola Scriptura, or personal interpretation, is the same. It's the first sin of the Garden. It makes the self out to be God, with final say. Even if one considers other interpretations, when yours is the definitive one, you are worshiping yourself.