Can you explain what is hard about the belief in God for you or perhaps why you prefer to be atheist? I am curious. I am Christian and would like to get your perspective.
I'm not the OP but I'm an agnostic. Here's where I struggle with Christianity, FWIW / since you asked.
There are over 7 Billion people in the world. There are just over 2 Billion Christians. That means, about 5 Billion people (2/3rds of the world population) are not Christian. But according to Christians/The Bible, the only way to enter heaven is to accept Jesus Christ. So - your God, according to your rules, is willing to 'write off' 5 billion people. While SOME of those 5 Billion can be accused of rejecting / ignoring the word of God, there are many of them who could never know of Christianity due to their isolation. And if you want to argue 'no one can avoid the word of God today', what about 1,000 years ago - there's no way someone in darkest Africa could have heard about Christianity 1,000 years ago, and still, by your rules, they would not be accepted into heaven. To me, it makes no sense that God would allow that to happen.
I have plenty of other reasons but I'll leave it at that for now, in case you want to give me your thoughts!
If I may......God knew man would, over time, would pervert his teachings...His judgment is based on individualism, not the herd. All are judged on their deeds and circumstances. The only ones He truly abandons are the wicked...the evil and followers of the fallen angel.
When we get to the gates of heaven and are judged, all that are pure of heart will be heard..Since he created us all in his image he knows us better than we know ourselves.
Sorry I need to understand a couple of things from you, so 20 questions game.. Do you believe in free will? If you do, is free will good or bad? What is good and bad? What is evil? Does it exist? If there was not God, what authority is there to say what is good and what is bad? If we are in essence, star dust, no different than the dirt under or feet or an ant, we are just bags of a substance called meat, is murder and rape wrong? Why? If there is no ultimate meaning in what we are doing, why does any of it matter?
If this is in response to my post, then I would clarify that I have no problem accepting there is a higher power, that some higher power created us and may have influence over us. That's why I'm agnostic, not atheist. What I can't accept is the specifics of Christianity, relative to (eg) Hinduism or Buddhism or Islam. If a baby is born to a devout Hindu family in India, and never hears the Christian gospel (and again - go back 1,000 years if you want to argue that everyone can be reached today), then if that child dies early, then that child did not 'accept Jesus Christ as his savior, and ... according to the 'Christian' God / rules, cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.
Another issue - prayer. Similar concept; let's say there are two people, living today in America. One is popular, attends a church, has many friends in the church. The other is a loner, doesn't really have any friends, but is a Christian. They both get sick. In the case of the first person, all his friends rally round and pray for him (I can't tell you how many times I hear that we all need to pray to make something happen - the more, the merrier). In the case of the second person, no one prays for him as no one even realized he was sick. So for person 1, hundreds of prayers; for person 2, no prayers. The way Christians would have it, the more people who pray for something, the more likely it is that God will do something. This really sounds ridiculous to me - God is onmipresent, all-knowing, all-powerful. So why would God do something different based on whether humans ask him to do something or not? Now consider a similar man in, say, India. Devout Hindu. But does not pray to the Christian God. Does he get less attention from God?
God is not "writing them off." Man was created with free will. The Word has been all over the world, even in places you don't believe it was. There were voyages by Christians around the world almost 2,000 years ago. There are Christians teaching in nations around the world who would be killed instantly if the government knew what they were doing. I know two former missionaries who worked as a pharmacist and nurse in Thailand. I know a couple of missionaries who teach English as a second language in Asia, a couple more in Ukraine, and another one in Africa.
The records in Africa are scarce because the jungle is not conducive to the written word. African history is recorded orally and by foreign observers. Most of the records in South America were destroyed by the Spanish. The Indians in North America didn't have a written language. All people are descended from Noah, and they had knowledge of God, whether they passed it down correctly or not.
Read Lee Stroble's books about God, Jesus, and the Bible. He was an atheist who set out to prove it all bogus, but found that it was all provably true.
Remember that some things you may have heard about Christianity may not be true. Each denomination split from the others years ago because of differences in their interpretation of what things meant in the Bible. Read it for yourself and study it carefully.
There is no way that God's word reached EVERYWHERE and EVERYONE, immediately after Jesus' life. Let's say year 100; year 200 - etc. There's no way people spread out to Alaska, South America, North America. We can be pretty sure that the Spanish were the first to reach North America, and that was not until 1500s. Or let's allow that the Vikings reached the North East in year 1000. What about the Indians who were here before then? How did they hear 'The Word'? Sorry, not reasonable. So given that not everyone heard the word, how can you deny them entry to heaven just because they never heard the Word?
The Spanish were definitely not the first to reach North America. Vikings were here hundreds of years before that, and Irish were here early as well. People were getting around the world a lot more than you realize. There was routine trade between the Middle East and Cornwall, England 2,000 years ago.
And there's also direct revelation. Moses was given the Ten Commandments directly.
I'm not denying anyone. The Bible says Jesus is the only way, and the Bible has been proven correct in everything that has been able to be checked so far. I did find a typo in II Chronicles, but it was a single number. Read Lee Strobel's book about the Bible.
You've heard, so you don't have an excuse any more. Read and study the Bible. Start with the New Testament.
I believe because man is so corrupt even if they had the Word they would reject it. Only those chosen by God can be saved. People saw God in the flesh and they wanted to kill him. When Jesus returns to rule people will want to kill him again after the millenial kingdom. If God wanted someone to be saved, He will get the Word to that person one way or another
I am a "seer"...this means I have visions, visitations and whispers form the Holy Spirit. I was born this way and will die this way. I can assure you God is seeking you. I live a pretty darn ordinary life...but it has been spent in service to humanity. I belong to no organized religion because God wants us to listen and learn from his word, not man's. Many churches are corrupt and have changed the word of God to fit their needs not His. This is a time of biblical prophecy...God is separating the wheat from the chaff...The door is open to all...this is what He asks of you now.
Follow the ten commandments....this is His path to salvation.
Read his book...the past IS a window to the future...ask a question and open it randomly, you'll be amazed at the result.
Search not for religion, search for peace and comfort from Him.
Pray...have patience and have faith that in seeking you will find your path...
Ask for forgiveness for your sins against others in your prayers...and you will be forgiven. God knows your heart...
Hi pede, God will honor your search. One author who has helped me is Lee Strobel. He has written numerous books and there are many excelled videos with him. Here is one of the shorter videos. He was an atheist himself and now teaches many people about the Good News of Jesus. https://youtu.be/67uj2qvQi_k
Good for you! I also listen to a daily devotional by Kris Langham and a couple chapters from the Bible. I listen to the Bible Gateway “dramatized” audio of the New International Version Bible. That way i can listen to God’s Word when I’m getting ready, driving, or doing work around the house. I’ve also used the YouVersion app on my phone and have listened to Francis Chan go through the book of James. I do this with about four other friends and we can each text a little comment to the group. All the best on your spiritual journey! https://throughtheword.org/
Can you explain what is hard about the belief in God for you or perhaps why you prefer to be atheist? I am curious. I am Christian and would like to get your perspective.
I'm not the OP but I'm an agnostic. Here's where I struggle with Christianity, FWIW / since you asked.
If I may......God knew man would, over time, would pervert his teachings...His judgment is based on individualism, not the herd. All are judged on their deeds and circumstances. The only ones He truly abandons are the wicked...the evil and followers of the fallen angel.
When we get to the gates of heaven and are judged, all that are pure of heart will be heard..Since he created us all in his image he knows us better than we know ourselves.
Sorry I need to understand a couple of things from you, so 20 questions game.. Do you believe in free will? If you do, is free will good or bad? What is good and bad? What is evil? Does it exist? If there was not God, what authority is there to say what is good and what is bad? If we are in essence, star dust, no different than the dirt under or feet or an ant, we are just bags of a substance called meat, is murder and rape wrong? Why? If there is no ultimate meaning in what we are doing, why does any of it matter?
If this is in response to my post, then I would clarify that I have no problem accepting there is a higher power, that some higher power created us and may have influence over us. That's why I'm agnostic, not atheist. What I can't accept is the specifics of Christianity, relative to (eg) Hinduism or Buddhism or Islam. If a baby is born to a devout Hindu family in India, and never hears the Christian gospel (and again - go back 1,000 years if you want to argue that everyone can be reached today), then if that child dies early, then that child did not 'accept Jesus Christ as his savior, and ... according to the 'Christian' God / rules, cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.
Another issue - prayer. Similar concept; let's say there are two people, living today in America. One is popular, attends a church, has many friends in the church. The other is a loner, doesn't really have any friends, but is a Christian. They both get sick. In the case of the first person, all his friends rally round and pray for him (I can't tell you how many times I hear that we all need to pray to make something happen - the more, the merrier). In the case of the second person, no one prays for him as no one even realized he was sick. So for person 1, hundreds of prayers; for person 2, no prayers. The way Christians would have it, the more people who pray for something, the more likely it is that God will do something. This really sounds ridiculous to me - God is onmipresent, all-knowing, all-powerful. So why would God do something different based on whether humans ask him to do something or not? Now consider a similar man in, say, India. Devout Hindu. But does not pray to the Christian God. Does he get less attention from God?
God is not "writing them off." Man was created with free will. The Word has been all over the world, even in places you don't believe it was. There were voyages by Christians around the world almost 2,000 years ago. There are Christians teaching in nations around the world who would be killed instantly if the government knew what they were doing. I know two former missionaries who worked as a pharmacist and nurse in Thailand. I know a couple of missionaries who teach English as a second language in Asia, a couple more in Ukraine, and another one in Africa.
The records in Africa are scarce because the jungle is not conducive to the written word. African history is recorded orally and by foreign observers. Most of the records in South America were destroyed by the Spanish. The Indians in North America didn't have a written language. All people are descended from Noah, and they had knowledge of God, whether they passed it down correctly or not.
Read Lee Stroble's books about God, Jesus, and the Bible. He was an atheist who set out to prove it all bogus, but found that it was all provably true.
Remember that some things you may have heard about Christianity may not be true. Each denomination split from the others years ago because of differences in their interpretation of what things meant in the Bible. Read it for yourself and study it carefully.
There is no way that God's word reached EVERYWHERE and EVERYONE, immediately after Jesus' life. Let's say year 100; year 200 - etc. There's no way people spread out to Alaska, South America, North America. We can be pretty sure that the Spanish were the first to reach North America, and that was not until 1500s. Or let's allow that the Vikings reached the North East in year 1000. What about the Indians who were here before then? How did they hear 'The Word'? Sorry, not reasonable. So given that not everyone heard the word, how can you deny them entry to heaven just because they never heard the Word?
The Spanish were definitely not the first to reach North America. Vikings were here hundreds of years before that, and Irish were here early as well. People were getting around the world a lot more than you realize. There was routine trade between the Middle East and Cornwall, England 2,000 years ago.
And there's also direct revelation. Moses was given the Ten Commandments directly.
I'm not denying anyone. The Bible says Jesus is the only way, and the Bible has been proven correct in everything that has been able to be checked so far. I did find a typo in II Chronicles, but it was a single number. Read Lee Strobel's book about the Bible.
You've heard, so you don't have an excuse any more. Read and study the Bible. Start with the New Testament.
I believe because man is so corrupt even if they had the Word they would reject it. Only those chosen by God can be saved. People saw God in the flesh and they wanted to kill him. When Jesus returns to rule people will want to kill him again after the millenial kingdom. If God wanted someone to be saved, He will get the Word to that person one way or another
Search for Him with your whole heart and don't lean unto your own understanding. And please, don't confuse religion with spirituality, as many do.
I am a "seer"...this means I have visions, visitations and whispers form the Holy Spirit. I was born this way and will die this way. I can assure you God is seeking you. I live a pretty darn ordinary life...but it has been spent in service to humanity. I belong to no organized religion because God wants us to listen and learn from his word, not man's. Many churches are corrupt and have changed the word of God to fit their needs not His. This is a time of biblical prophecy...God is separating the wheat from the chaff...The door is open to all...this is what He asks of you now. Follow the ten commandments....this is His path to salvation. Read his book...the past IS a window to the future...ask a question and open it randomly, you'll be amazed at the result.
Search not for religion, search for peace and comfort from Him. Pray...have patience and have faith that in seeking you will find your path... Ask for forgiveness for your sins against others in your prayers...and you will be forgiven. God knows your heart...
The number of times this has happened and the strange circumstance surrounding them has always astounded me.
I guess I’ve never been an atheist, but definitely a hard-core agnostic. I was raised in the church, but it never really meant anything to me.
Now, I believe absolutely. To get a sense of what I discovered, do this:
FWIW, an excellent book about an intellectual approach to Christianity is “The Case for Christ”, by Lee Strobel.
Happy reading!
Hi pede, God will honor your search. One author who has helped me is Lee Strobel. He has written numerous books and there are many excelled videos with him. Here is one of the shorter videos. He was an atheist himself and now teaches many people about the Good News of Jesus. https://youtu.be/67uj2qvQi_k
Good for you! I also listen to a daily devotional by Kris Langham and a couple chapters from the Bible. I listen to the Bible Gateway “dramatized” audio of the New International Version Bible. That way i can listen to God’s Word when I’m getting ready, driving, or doing work around the house. I’ve also used the YouVersion app on my phone and have listened to Francis Chan go through the book of James. I do this with about four other friends and we can each text a little comment to the group. All the best on your spiritual journey! https://throughtheword.org/
The fact that you don't want to lie to God suggests you already know Him somewhat.
God will not snap the bent reed (weak faith), but the Devil will certainly try