There does seem to be a lot of idol worship in Catholicism. Praying to Mary, the saints, and I believe people historically would even pray to deceased relatives or their kings. I think even the way crucifixes are treated is a bit like idol worship. Seems like a distortion of the teachings of Christ. Open to hearing from a resident Catholic to clear things up for me though.
Eh..catechism is incredibly interesting. There's some cases of canonization that have more evidence than some scientific phenomena. Catechism pretty much treats the Bible as "we're too stupid to understand what's actually going on and we'll spend the next million years trying to figure it out" The concept of the "mysteries" makes Catholicism incredibly thought provoking from a strictly theological viewpoint.
Intercession is kind of a weird one, which some Catholics do question. Essentially though, condemning it would be like saying asking someone to pray for you is sinful (why didn't you just pray yourself?) And if you believe in the concept of omnipresence applying to time as well, then asking for someone in the same quantic space (such as one of the true saints, or Mary) to intercede for you is not idolatry
I'd be much more worried about denominations that believe in the elect or hard predestination. That's not only denying the Christ (whoever comes to me) but also elevating acts above His blood.. might as well be a Jehovah's witness at that point.
You:
"....then asking for someone in the same quantic space (such as one of the true saints, or Mary) to intercede for you is not idolatry."
Scripture:
1 Timothy 2:5
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
You: "I'd be much more worried about denominations that believe in the elect or hard predestination. That's not only denying the Christ (whoever comes to me) but also elevating acts above His blood."
You are there referring to John 6 [37]. If you continue reading the Lord's statement to John 6 [44] Jesus tells you specifically whom he is talking about:
[44] No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
You have everything exactly backwards to what the Lord says. I am no Jehova's Witness. But I dare not contradict or misrepresent what Jesus says clearly and repeatedly, as the Scripture also clearly states what awaits those who do such things:
Rev.22 [18] For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
[19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Again misunderstanding of the terms. Graven Images applies to the Pagan religions of the time with the statue in the "temples" being the gods. Remember this is the belief in the one true God who sent his only son Jesus for the forgiveness of the sins of humanity. We as humans are sinners so the humans running the organization are too.
the way a non catholic pastor who broke open his concordenc, there were graven images, carved idols from various material, which represented the household gods before abraham set forth on his journey.
in doing so he was supposed to have no other gods before him, those graven(carved/whittled/molded) images were of lesser beings and were not to be worshipped because he was a jealous god.
Before him translates as more important than the one God of Israel.. Right it doesn't mean we can't have representations /pictures...of God. Pictures are like what we have in our homes of our families....to remind us of our friends and family members. Statues and paintings are the same thing. We are not worshipping the image.
Not pray to exactly...all worship is directly to God and Jesus. Complete misunderstanding of the terms praying with Mary and the Saints asking for them to add their prayers to our own. Yes we do pray for the dead not to. Please research the history of the practices of the Catholic church. Give me a minute to type up a fuller answer. I will post again.
As I read thru comments I found myself seeing a lot of untrue anti Catholic statements. I tend to get upset over the number of untrue and mischaracterized traditions in The Church. I would love to help anyone understand if I can.This. anti Catholic belief is a great example of the distortions that can happen when factions have political agendas when writing history. First point I want to make is The Church is the beginning of Christianity. Jesus declared Peter to build his church and the Apostles carried the message around the Mediterranean world. A great place to start is reading the new testament. I recommend a study type Bible for context and explanations. Most of the beliefs are easily understood by keeping in mind the history of our world and opening our mind enough to see both sides of issues. Questions are great but treat information like every other topic and do the research. For example, Who wrote it this way and why? I do not defend the sins of the human leaders in our church. But I do believe the message from Jesus to love the Lord your God with all of your heart mind and soul...AND love your neighbor as yourself. The best summation of the 10 Commandments! Jesus promised us the kingdom of heaven. Faith is a little hard to explain. To believe in God, creator or a higher power or what ever name you want to use without physical proof can be very hard for some in our legalistic secular society. I have more..if you have questions feel free to ask. I will answer to the best of my ability from my experiences and reading I have done.
There does seem to be a lot of idol worship in Catholicism. Praying to Mary, the saints, and I believe people historically would even pray to deceased relatives or their kings. I think even the way crucifixes are treated is a bit like idol worship. Seems like a distortion of the teachings of Christ. Open to hearing from a resident Catholic to clear things up for me though.
Eh..catechism is incredibly interesting. There's some cases of canonization that have more evidence than some scientific phenomena. Catechism pretty much treats the Bible as "we're too stupid to understand what's actually going on and we'll spend the next million years trying to figure it out" The concept of the "mysteries" makes Catholicism incredibly thought provoking from a strictly theological viewpoint.
Intercession is kind of a weird one, which some Catholics do question. Essentially though, condemning it would be like saying asking someone to pray for you is sinful (why didn't you just pray yourself?) And if you believe in the concept of omnipresence applying to time as well, then asking for someone in the same quantic space (such as one of the true saints, or Mary) to intercede for you is not idolatry
I'd be much more worried about denominations that believe in the elect or hard predestination. That's not only denying the Christ (whoever comes to me) but also elevating acts above His blood.. might as well be a Jehovah's witness at that point.
You: "....then asking for someone in the same quantic space (such as one of the true saints, or Mary) to intercede for you is not idolatry."
Scripture: 1 Timothy 2:5 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
You: "I'd be much more worried about denominations that believe in the elect or hard predestination. That's not only denying the Christ (whoever comes to me) but also elevating acts above His blood."
You are there referring to John 6 [37]. If you continue reading the Lord's statement to John 6 [44] Jesus tells you specifically whom he is talking about:
[44] No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
You have everything exactly backwards to what the Lord says. I am no Jehova's Witness. But I dare not contradict or misrepresent what Jesus says clearly and repeatedly, as the Scripture also clearly states what awaits those who do such things:
Rev.22 [18] For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: [19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
the whole part of "graven images" got tossed
Again misunderstanding of the terms. Graven Images applies to the Pagan religions of the time with the statue in the "temples" being the gods. Remember this is the belief in the one true God who sent his only son Jesus for the forgiveness of the sins of humanity. We as humans are sinners so the humans running the organization are too.
the way a non catholic pastor who broke open his concordenc, there were graven images, carved idols from various material, which represented the household gods before abraham set forth on his journey.
in doing so he was supposed to have no other gods before him, those graven(carved/whittled/molded) images were of lesser beings and were not to be worshipped because he was a jealous god.
Before him translates as more important than the one God of Israel.. Right it doesn't mean we can't have representations /pictures...of God. Pictures are like what we have in our homes of our families....to remind us of our friends and family members. Statues and paintings are the same thing. We are not worshipping the image.
Nah, thats pretty much it.
Oh and the whole covering up pedophilia for decades as well.
Not pray to exactly...all worship is directly to God and Jesus. Complete misunderstanding of the terms praying with Mary and the Saints asking for them to add their prayers to our own. Yes we do pray for the dead not to. Please research the history of the practices of the Catholic church. Give me a minute to type up a fuller answer. I will post again.
Thank you. I don’t mean to be disrespectful, I just don’t understand it the way it’s presented generally.
As I read thru comments I found myself seeing a lot of untrue anti Catholic statements. I tend to get upset over the number of untrue and mischaracterized traditions in The Church. I would love to help anyone understand if I can.This. anti Catholic belief is a great example of the distortions that can happen when factions have political agendas when writing history. First point I want to make is The Church is the beginning of Christianity. Jesus declared Peter to build his church and the Apostles carried the message around the Mediterranean world. A great place to start is reading the new testament. I recommend a study type Bible for context and explanations. Most of the beliefs are easily understood by keeping in mind the history of our world and opening our mind enough to see both sides of issues. Questions are great but treat information like every other topic and do the research. For example, Who wrote it this way and why? I do not defend the sins of the human leaders in our church. But I do believe the message from Jesus to love the Lord your God with all of your heart mind and soul...AND love your neighbor as yourself. The best summation of the 10 Commandments! Jesus promised us the kingdom of heaven. Faith is a little hard to explain. To believe in God, creator or a higher power or what ever name you want to use without physical proof can be very hard for some in our legalistic secular society. I have more..if you have questions feel free to ask. I will answer to the best of my ability from my experiences and reading I have done.