So, the Word is the original vibration, which propagates into sound, which propagates into electricity, which propagates into light(photons), which propagates into atoms, which propagates into matter, which propagates into life, which propagates into sentience, which propagates into thought, which propagates into spirit, and then continues beyond what we currently can comprehend. (Working order, some steps may be omitted for brevity.)
Are you suggesting that spirit is caused by events occurring in this temporal universe?
Consider the implications of the quantum observer effect, how the observation of a wave potential of a particle gets condensed to the actual particle when it is observed. Expand that to the universal level, and without an observer the universe COULD NOT exist except as a waveform potential of a universe. (I know I know, many science types do NOT like that interpretation, especially when they do not want to introduce 'god' into the equation of observers).
So, without speaking for the one you asked, I believe it the opposite, the temporal universe is caused by the spirit.
The what counts as "observers" I do find as a worthwhile question; is a sensor acting as an observer, or is it holding some quantum state potentials until an observer comes in to collapse the wave. How about the single celled organisms? They must be observing their own environment, even without the eyes to see.
The cocreation you mention, I like that word, the concept would help explain why the objects in the physical world don't collapse into new positions. If we are talking about a cocreative agreement (way below consciousness).
I've absorbed alot of the woo woo stuff too (what the bleep do we know), but the one that really hit was one called "my big TOE" (theory of everything), which was written by a physicist who had an OBE and then began studying the non-physical that he could no longer deny because of experience.
The idea I got from several directions is that everything is consciousness.
Reading on evolution, as, for instance, Richard Dawkins nicely describes it: a photosensitive spot might increase the chances of noticing a predator (shadow? difference between light and dark) and therefor increase the chances of reproduction, leaving that particular feat to descendants.
So, indeed, what is observing exactly? When we, as sentient beings, observe an event unfolding without judgement, and thus without intent, does that change the outcome of the event? It seems to be the case that observing that way, without judgement, leaves the event intact.
Anecdote:
When my daughter was very young, her mother brought her down the stairs one morning, and said: Let's open the curtains together. And when they were done my daughter looked outside. The world had changed. Our garden was totally covered with white stuff.
While I watched that scene, without any judgement, neutral, without words. I heard her mother say: look snow!
At that point I could not suppress a: Damn you ruined it!
Later on I asked her, how it went. So, she told me, they had played in the snow, giggling, wonderful. Then I asked: what would have happened if you had not said anything? IF you had not named it? If you had not framed it in frequency and vibration?
She looked totally shocked and could not follow. You, I said, could have listened and watched what our daughter really had done. You would have seen, she did not need a name to enjoy the moment! By naming it, you tried to program her into our system, whereas she is young enough to live without. As long as either of us, and preferably we both hang around.
When you have 6 billion people living in fear based on programming and judements... is that a self-fulfilling prophecy?
It seems, from several double slit experiments, the intent of an observer (the state of the observer) changes the outcome.
The universe exists whether we are here to observe it or not. And I do agree that the spirit causes the temporal universe, the other user account can’t give a straight answer on it.
I don't buy into that classical interpretation of quantum physics that tries to explain away those quantum effects as the same as the observer effect (where measuring something has an impact on the something, ie, to get the pressure in a tire needs to release a bit of air to get the measurement meaning the actual pressure is different from what was measured because of releasing some pressure to get the reading).
So, IMO, without observers the universe would exist like Schrodinger's cat, both in a state of existing and not existing simultaneously, or a 'waveform potential' representing every potential configuration of the universe.
As things get smaller and tighter they tend to clump together and become rigid.
The energy wraps upon itself, becoming smaller and smaller and at the same time clumping together to form greater and more complex structures -- including the structures of the mind and eventually the soul.
All energy is connected. And different forms of energy can interact with one another -- surpassing "boundaries" by which we define them and making something more than the original parts.
Consider a heart. One pulse informs the next.
Ba-dump. Ba-dump. Ba-dump.
Ba precedes dump.
If you remove the ba, does the dump know when to sound?
If you remove dump, does ba?
A heart that goes ba-ba-ba is not long for this world.
And so the heart of the Universe beats on, upon the metronome of time, measured by the epochs of the pattern repeating according to the season. A time for planting and a time for harvest. A time for growth and a time for death.
Make no mistake, however, that death is not final. To assume the cycle had a clear and definite start misses the point. Planting is not the start and neither is death the end.
One begets the other in a timeless dance. To solve any paradox, one need only remove the component of time.
So too is the origin of the Universe timeless, because time is a result of the Universe.
Eventually, the energy propagates in such a way that the IDEA of the Universe manifests, which informs its own Creation.
Alpha and Omega. Beginning and End. The Universe Jesus wished for as he died on the cross is the one that existed and begot him, thus achieving perfect harmony of Creation and Creator. At that very moment, everything came into existence. Past that point in time, as well as before it, we each ride on the coat-tails of the echo of God's Word.
the soul lies a result of things occurring in this temporal universe
Not exactly.
The result and the cause are the same thing. The result is the cause and the cause is the result.
Think music.
From where does a song come? Where does it go?
A song is played for an audience. The audience goes home and the song still rings in their heads. They hum it, sing it, and celebrate it, but it isn't actually there anymore. The event happened, the original song has long since been played, but its presence carries on in all who heard it.
Time passes, and the song is forgotten about. It is no longer hummed, sung, or celebrated. Did it ever really exist at all?
Of course it did. Before the musician even laid a single finger on his instrument, before the musician scribbled it down the days prior, and even before the musician himself was born, those combinations of notes played in sequence existed. The musician's passion is to discover them, write them down, and play them.
The musician extended his antenna(his spirit) and translated a Truth we all hear every day but have up until that time had ignored. He bore it, birthed it, tended to it, and celebrated his finding, imparting on the audience the very essence of the song he transcribed.
The audience for which it is played bear witness to the event, and are compelled to stand in testimony before God and the Universe that the song they heard did in fact exist, that the event took place, and that they were moved from what transpired.
But the seed existed before the musician. The musician was the bearer of the child, but the seed came from the Divine Spark of Creation we call God.
And in doing so, the musician fulfilled the prophecy of that song. The song exists because he discovered it. He discovered it because it existed. Had he not discovered the song, it would not have existed.
And I need to stress that.
Had he not discovered the song, the song would not have existed.
To take it even further, the musician exists because the song's existence required him to write it. Had he abdicated his role in writing the song, opting to ignore his passion, can we say he was ever a musician to begin with? His choice, therein, to perform his role was his to make every bit as much as he has agency to create himself.
If he had ignored his calling, then the world would continue to spin, but he would be a different person, and would cease to be as we would know him -- a musician.
To reconstruct the premise, if a musician never writes or plays any songs, is he a musician?
Even more, if the song would never have been played it would never manage to resonate with those who took the song with them and whose lives immeasurably were altered, even if they soon forget how the song went.
Such are the fleeting Joys of life. Such is the Love God shares with us, that we may take part in His Creation as equals under Christ Jesus, and follow Him in His image; in the image of the Creator.
Are you suggesting that spirit is caused by events occurring in this temporal universe?
Consider the implications of the quantum observer effect, how the observation of a wave potential of a particle gets condensed to the actual particle when it is observed. Expand that to the universal level, and without an observer the universe COULD NOT exist except as a waveform potential of a universe. (I know I know, many science types do NOT like that interpretation, especially when they do not want to introduce 'god' into the equation of observers).
So, without speaking for the one you asked, I believe it the opposite, the temporal universe is caused by the spirit.
Interesting thought!
That brings the question to the one or ones doing the observing and the power levels of observing.
But also the manifesting power through frequency and vibration.
And lastly, perhaps the interaction between the two andere the several participants in the events ( co-creation)
The what counts as "observers" I do find as a worthwhile question; is a sensor acting as an observer, or is it holding some quantum state potentials until an observer comes in to collapse the wave. How about the single celled organisms? They must be observing their own environment, even without the eyes to see.
The cocreation you mention, I like that word, the concept would help explain why the objects in the physical world don't collapse into new positions. If we are talking about a cocreative agreement (way below consciousness).
I've absorbed alot of the woo woo stuff too (what the bleep do we know), but the one that really hit was one called "my big TOE" (theory of everything), which was written by a physicist who had an OBE and then began studying the non-physical that he could no longer deny because of experience.
The idea I got from several directions is that everything is consciousness.
Reading on evolution, as, for instance, Richard Dawkins nicely describes it: a photosensitive spot might increase the chances of noticing a predator (shadow? difference between light and dark) and therefor increase the chances of reproduction, leaving that particular feat to descendants.
So, indeed, what is observing exactly? When we, as sentient beings, observe an event unfolding without judgement, and thus without intent, does that change the outcome of the event? It seems to be the case that observing that way, without judgement, leaves the event intact.
Anecdote:
When my daughter was very young, her mother brought her down the stairs one morning, and said: Let's open the curtains together. And when they were done my daughter looked outside. The world had changed. Our garden was totally covered with white stuff.
While I watched that scene, without any judgement, neutral, without words. I heard her mother say: look snow!
At that point I could not suppress a: Damn you ruined it!
Later on I asked her, how it went. So, she told me, they had played in the snow, giggling, wonderful. Then I asked: what would have happened if you had not said anything? IF you had not named it? If you had not framed it in frequency and vibration?
She looked totally shocked and could not follow. You, I said, could have listened and watched what our daughter really had done. You would have seen, she did not need a name to enjoy the moment! By naming it, you tried to program her into our system, whereas she is young enough to live without. As long as either of us, and preferably we both hang around.
When you have 6 billion people living in fear based on programming and judements... is that a self-fulfilling prophecy?
It seems, from several double slit experiments, the intent of an observer (the state of the observer) changes the outcome.
The universe exists whether we are here to observe it or not. And I do agree that the spirit causes the temporal universe, the other user account can’t give a straight answer on it.
A waveform potential OF a temporal universe.
I don't buy into that classical interpretation of quantum physics that tries to explain away those quantum effects as the same as the observer effect (where measuring something has an impact on the something, ie, to get the pressure in a tire needs to release a bit of air to get the measurement meaning the actual pressure is different from what was measured because of releasing some pressure to get the reading).
So, IMO, without observers the universe would exist like Schrodinger's cat, both in a state of existing and not existing simultaneously, or a 'waveform potential' representing every potential configuration of the universe.
Yeah, I don’t buy into the whole “if there’s no observers, there’s a Schrödinger’s cat situation”.
It’s a mistaken application of Quantum-world effects on the macro-world. It makes for some cool sci-fi though.
It is a fractal.
As things get smaller and tighter they tend to clump together and become rigid.
The energy wraps upon itself, becoming smaller and smaller and at the same time clumping together to form greater and more complex structures -- including the structures of the mind and eventually the soul.
All energy is connected. And different forms of energy can interact with one another -- surpassing "boundaries" by which we define them and making something more than the original parts.
Consider a heart. One pulse informs the next.
Ba-dump. Ba-dump. Ba-dump.
Ba precedes dump.
If you remove the ba, does the dump know when to sound?
If you remove dump, does ba?
A heart that goes ba-ba-ba is not long for this world.
And so the heart of the Universe beats on, upon the metronome of time, measured by the epochs of the pattern repeating according to the season. A time for planting and a time for harvest. A time for growth and a time for death.
Make no mistake, however, that death is not final. To assume the cycle had a clear and definite start misses the point. Planting is not the start and neither is death the end.
One begets the other in a timeless dance. To solve any paradox, one need only remove the component of time.
So too is the origin of the Universe timeless, because time is a result of the Universe.
Eventually, the energy propagates in such a way that the IDEA of the Universe manifests, which informs its own Creation.
Alpha and Omega. Beginning and End. The Universe Jesus wished for as he died on the cross is the one that existed and begot him, thus achieving perfect harmony of Creation and Creator. At that very moment, everything came into existence. Past that point in time, as well as before it, we each ride on the coat-tails of the echo of God's Word.
I see.
So you are still suggesting that spirit and therefor the soul lies a result of things occurring in this temporal universe?
Death is not final of course, but do I understand you correctly that the spirit of one who dies exists because of energy in this temporal universe?
Not exactly.
The result and the cause are the same thing. The result is the cause and the cause is the result.
Think music.
From where does a song come? Where does it go?
A song is played for an audience. The audience goes home and the song still rings in their heads. They hum it, sing it, and celebrate it, but it isn't actually there anymore. The event happened, the original song has long since been played, but its presence carries on in all who heard it.
Time passes, and the song is forgotten about. It is no longer hummed, sung, or celebrated. Did it ever really exist at all?
Of course it did. Before the musician even laid a single finger on his instrument, before the musician scribbled it down the days prior, and even before the musician himself was born, those combinations of notes played in sequence existed. The musician's passion is to discover them, write them down, and play them.
The musician extended his antenna(his spirit) and translated a Truth we all hear every day but have up until that time had ignored. He bore it, birthed it, tended to it, and celebrated his finding, imparting on the audience the very essence of the song he transcribed.
The audience for which it is played bear witness to the event, and are compelled to stand in testimony before God and the Universe that the song they heard did in fact exist, that the event took place, and that they were moved from what transpired.
But the seed existed before the musician. The musician was the bearer of the child, but the seed came from the Divine Spark of Creation we call God.
And in doing so, the musician fulfilled the prophecy of that song. The song exists because he discovered it. He discovered it because it existed. Had he not discovered the song, it would not have existed.
And I need to stress that.
Had he not discovered the song, the song would not have existed.
To take it even further, the musician exists because the song's existence required him to write it. Had he abdicated his role in writing the song, opting to ignore his passion, can we say he was ever a musician to begin with? His choice, therein, to perform his role was his to make every bit as much as he has agency to create himself.
If he had ignored his calling, then the world would continue to spin, but he would be a different person, and would cease to be as we would know him -- a musician.
To reconstruct the premise, if a musician never writes or plays any songs, is he a musician?
Even more, if the song would never have been played it would never manage to resonate with those who took the song with them and whose lives immeasurably were altered, even if they soon forget how the song went.
Such are the fleeting Joys of life. Such is the Love God shares with us, that we may take part in His Creation as equals under Christ Jesus, and follow Him in His image; in the image of the Creator.
Discovering your design and living it, instead of living your not self according to the programming of people with a different agenda.
Human Design.