I hate to say it, but this is probably one of the most mis-quoted verses out there (right alongside Matthew 7:1).
"...in the way he [the child] should go..." is referring to the child's Will. IOW, train a child up in whatever he wants to do (spoiled), then when he is old he wont depart from it (i.e. being spoiled). The emphasis is on the HE. The way the CHILD wants to go.
This goes a long with the other verses that mention the concept of "sparing the rod, spoiling the child." Proverbs 13:24
When this verse is understood in it's proper context, then you also avoid the numerous examples of a child being raised in the Church and then departing from it when they are old.
You are reading that its the child’s will into. If anything its saying train him in the way he SHOULD go. Not the way he wants to go...if it were that it would say that. Also the key here is that it says “when he is old he will not depart from it” meaning that there may be a lot of drifting away from it until he is old and understands all those things that he learned much better because he himself is now old and has kids and experiences etc.
Lots of eisegesis going on in your explanation of this verse. Check the original language and let me know where the emphasis is.
Remember, all one needs is ONE example to the contrary to prove this verse false - if your interpretation is accurate (and there are many counterexamples to this understanding). Whereas this alternate understanding (which lines up with the original language quite well) fits with other verses AND avoids those numerous examples of people being raised in the church and truth and then turning away.
The verse isnt an absolute either way. Theres just as many examples of someone getting their way their whole childhood who were able to grow up and realize the error of their ways and accepted Christ. This is an proverb. Its not a guarantee. So this aspect of your argument is completely null.
Children are not dogs to be trained. For a board that admonishes one to "think for yourself", "do your research", "question authority" this seems a little out of character. If you've been brought up under Christianity, the real brain bender comes when you begin to question the character of YHWH / Jehovah.
If a child is raised in the church, he will not stray into the wrong path. He will make the right decisions. This is what I meant by this. If you wish to think otherwise, then that is your right. Please have a blessed day.
Great argument to just abandon parenting altogether. Don't worry about raising your kids, fam! And don't ever teach them the wisdom you gleaned over life.
They can figure it out just fine.
(Not what you are trying to say, I am sure, but your point is incomplete enough that its a wide open hole).
Unfortunately they are - and so are adults. Children though...."give me a child until he is 7, and I will give you the man'. Jesuit saying. The brain doesn't even begin to reason until around 7, it's all emotion before that, so whatever you input into their brains before then is there for life unless they make enormous effort to change the programming when they are adults.
Was it Ernest Hemingway who believed children should be allowed to develop as they will without adult 'interference'? Set up an island retreat and left them to their own devices. They turned into little monsters and the project had to be abandoned.
You ever read Lord Of The Flies? You betcha that would happen in real life if kids are left to follow their own development. Children are NOT little adults, they need to be taught and yes, trained, to be civilized and considerate of others.
We are NOT naturally civilized and empathic to others. We need to be civilized otherwise we stay at an animalistic level just doing what feels good in the moment.
Hell most infants would be quite happy to sit in their own shit if they weren't trained to use the potty.
Think of 'The Terrible Twos', at that age children learn how to get what they want by crying and throwing tantrums and the world literally revolves around them and their needs. They don't give a fuck about anyone else. It is the epitome of me me me. They also test the parental limits. Good parents are PARENTS not best friends, and train and guide them for adulthood.
Tell a child that age not to put their hand near the fire and they'll look at you slyly and slowly inch their hand to it. Or do it when you are not around if you don't put a guard around it (most people don't have open fires these days so not an issue like it used to be). You can't reason with a child that age ffs. Even chimpanzees know that, and give misbehaving kids a whack. Smacking them to make them comply - for their own safety - is not the same as 'beating' them in case you were confused about that.
But yes, the 'training' and programming they get up to the age of 7 stays with them all their lives, for good or bad. We are going to have a lot of neurotic adults thanks to these masks and lockdowns in their early childhood. They will be frightened of everything and that is not a good trait for any civilization.
My grandma said at a family gathering-my father was about 30 years old-she said "You never quit raising them" --You are right -good parents are parents -tough love-what they believe is right--most kids subliminally understand that this is loving guidance--and often as in our case-our son is 30 and our relationship changes to more friend and confidant than father-son--strangely I love him and vice versa more than ever
Yes. Adulthood is the time when parents become friends with their child, but as you say they will always be the parents 'child', and the hardest thing is to be confident you have done the best you can and leave them to make their own mistakes. Not always easy when you can see they are going wrong and give advice they won't listen too. :)
I see so many parents trying to be 'best friends' to young children and that is not the stage to do it. They have friends their own age, they need the parent to BE a parent and that requires discipline, boundaries, and guidance.
Still, even with the best intent people screw up, but if you've done a halfway good job they recognize you did the best you could and see you as a fellow human and friend when they reach adulthood, rather than an infallible being who can fix all their mistakes. And then one day the parent may become the 'child' when they get old and frail, and the child takes the responsibility to protect and care for the vulnerable parent.
My heart breaks for those who do not have good upbringings. I'll never understand parents who subject their children to a living hell. I guess it's a testament to their character if they can survive that without becoming too screwed up.
BTW I do agree with you re the character of YHWH, but here is a curious thing...according to Biblical Scholars NOWHERE in the New Testament is The Tetragrammaton (the name of God) mentioned. It's not there in Aramaic, or Hebrew, or Greek or Latin.
Perhaps Jesus wasn't actually referring to YHWH when he mentioned his Father? He did refer to The Pharisees worshipping the 'Father Of Lies' and belonging to the 'Synagogue Of Satan'. Who was the God of The Pharisees? Hmmm.
There are some suggestions that St John of Revelations used YHWH but that is contentious and it could also have been added over the centuries. Whether YHWH is truly the 'Father' Jesus refers to is unknown, but wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't.
The New Testament is the only authority Christians should be paying heed to anyway, imo.
This verse also has occult meaning. The right hand path vs. the left. And for those that are aware, we are at war with those that have taken the left hand path.
Right! KJ is right hand vs left hand! But historically, look at how left handers at the time, were viewed! Before we go to far, my youngest, a son, incredible musician, highest IQ in the family, left handed and based beyond belief!
Amen. Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go; and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
I hate to say it, but this is probably one of the most mis-quoted verses out there (right alongside Matthew 7:1).
"...in the way he [the child] should go..." is referring to the child's Will. IOW, train a child up in whatever he wants to do (spoiled), then when he is old he wont depart from it (i.e. being spoiled). The emphasis is on the HE. The way the CHILD wants to go.
This goes a long with the other verses that mention the concept of "sparing the rod, spoiling the child." Proverbs 13:24
When this verse is understood in it's proper context, then you also avoid the numerous examples of a child being raised in the Church and then departing from it when they are old.
You are reading that its the child’s will into. If anything its saying train him in the way he SHOULD go. Not the way he wants to go...if it were that it would say that. Also the key here is that it says “when he is old he will not depart from it” meaning that there may be a lot of drifting away from it until he is old and understands all those things that he learned much better because he himself is now old and has kids and experiences etc.
Lots of eisegesis going on in your explanation of this verse. Check the original language and let me know where the emphasis is.
Remember, all one needs is ONE example to the contrary to prove this verse false - if your interpretation is accurate (and there are many counterexamples to this understanding). Whereas this alternate understanding (which lines up with the original language quite well) fits with other verses AND avoids those numerous examples of people being raised in the church and truth and then turning away.
The verse isnt an absolute either way. Theres just as many examples of someone getting their way their whole childhood who were able to grow up and realize the error of their ways and accepted Christ. This is an proverb. Its not a guarantee. So this aspect of your argument is completely null.
Bless you.
Children are not dogs to be trained. For a board that admonishes one to "think for yourself", "do your research", "question authority" this seems a little out of character. If you've been brought up under Christianity, the real brain bender comes when you begin to question the character of YHWH / Jehovah.
If a child is raised in the church, he will not stray into the wrong path. He will make the right decisions. This is what I meant by this. If you wish to think otherwise, then that is your right. Please have a blessed day.
Great argument to just abandon parenting altogether. Don't worry about raising your kids, fam! And don't ever teach them the wisdom you gleaned over life.
They can figure it out just fine.
(Not what you are trying to say, I am sure, but your point is incomplete enough that its a wide open hole).
Unfortunately they are - and so are adults. Children though...."give me a child until he is 7, and I will give you the man'. Jesuit saying. The brain doesn't even begin to reason until around 7, it's all emotion before that, so whatever you input into their brains before then is there for life unless they make enormous effort to change the programming when they are adults.
Was it Ernest Hemingway who believed children should be allowed to develop as they will without adult 'interference'? Set up an island retreat and left them to their own devices. They turned into little monsters and the project had to be abandoned.
You ever read Lord Of The Flies? You betcha that would happen in real life if kids are left to follow their own development. Children are NOT little adults, they need to be taught and yes, trained, to be civilized and considerate of others.
We are NOT naturally civilized and empathic to others. We need to be civilized otherwise we stay at an animalistic level just doing what feels good in the moment.
Hell most infants would be quite happy to sit in their own shit if they weren't trained to use the potty.
Think of 'The Terrible Twos', at that age children learn how to get what they want by crying and throwing tantrums and the world literally revolves around them and their needs. They don't give a fuck about anyone else. It is the epitome of me me me. They also test the parental limits. Good parents are PARENTS not best friends, and train and guide them for adulthood.
Tell a child that age not to put their hand near the fire and they'll look at you slyly and slowly inch their hand to it. Or do it when you are not around if you don't put a guard around it (most people don't have open fires these days so not an issue like it used to be). You can't reason with a child that age ffs. Even chimpanzees know that, and give misbehaving kids a whack. Smacking them to make them comply - for their own safety - is not the same as 'beating' them in case you were confused about that.
But yes, the 'training' and programming they get up to the age of 7 stays with them all their lives, for good or bad. We are going to have a lot of neurotic adults thanks to these masks and lockdowns in their early childhood. They will be frightened of everything and that is not a good trait for any civilization.
My grandma said at a family gathering-my father was about 30 years old-she said "You never quit raising them" --You are right -good parents are parents -tough love-what they believe is right--most kids subliminally understand that this is loving guidance--and often as in our case-our son is 30 and our relationship changes to more friend and confidant than father-son--strangely I love him and vice versa more than ever
Yes. Adulthood is the time when parents become friends with their child, but as you say they will always be the parents 'child', and the hardest thing is to be confident you have done the best you can and leave them to make their own mistakes. Not always easy when you can see they are going wrong and give advice they won't listen too. :)
I see so many parents trying to be 'best friends' to young children and that is not the stage to do it. They have friends their own age, they need the parent to BE a parent and that requires discipline, boundaries, and guidance.
Still, even with the best intent people screw up, but if you've done a halfway good job they recognize you did the best you could and see you as a fellow human and friend when they reach adulthood, rather than an infallible being who can fix all their mistakes. And then one day the parent may become the 'child' when they get old and frail, and the child takes the responsibility to protect and care for the vulnerable parent.
My heart breaks for those who do not have good upbringings. I'll never understand parents who subject their children to a living hell. I guess it's a testament to their character if they can survive that without becoming too screwed up.
BTW I do agree with you re the character of YHWH, but here is a curious thing...according to Biblical Scholars NOWHERE in the New Testament is The Tetragrammaton (the name of God) mentioned. It's not there in Aramaic, or Hebrew, or Greek or Latin.
Perhaps Jesus wasn't actually referring to YHWH when he mentioned his Father? He did refer to The Pharisees worshipping the 'Father Of Lies' and belonging to the 'Synagogue Of Satan'. Who was the God of The Pharisees? Hmmm.
There are some suggestions that St John of Revelations used YHWH but that is contentious and it could also have been added over the centuries. Whether YHWH is truly the 'Father' Jesus refers to is unknown, but wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't.
The New Testament is the only authority Christians should be paying heed to anyway, imo.
I posted it after seeing your post. Sorry to copycat
Love it
The fool also says in his heart that there is no God.
This verse also has occult meaning. The right hand path vs. the left. And for those that are aware, we are at war with those that have taken the left hand path.
Exactly
Sinister 🤲 Dexter
This made my day.
🙏 Amen.
Which translation? it's not King James.
https://biblehub.com/kjv/ecclesiastes/10-2.htm
Right! KJ is right hand vs left hand! But historically, look at how left handers at the time, were viewed! Before we go to far, my youngest, a son, incredible musician, highest IQ in the family, left handed and based beyond belief!
NIV
A literal translation of it is roughly: Wise heart to the right hand, foolish heart to the left hand.
A more meaningful translation though might be: The wise prefers his right (stronger) hand, and the fool prefers his left (weaker) hand.
Of course, most of this unfortunately gets lost in translation.
Lmao! Solomon knew long ago :D