Would you tolerate a bomb in your body, waiting to detonate if you deviated from the needs of society?
(media.communities.win)
💊 RED PILL 💊
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This raises the fundamental (and exploitable) error in the statement, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."
This statement sounds very reasonable. You put two things of the same substance on a balance, the one with the most weight is greater. Specifically, if I put 10 oz of gold on one side of a balance, and 1 oz of gold on another, and ask you to choose one, you will almost certainly pick the 10 oz of gold, because it holds more value.
The problem (and exploit) is when we start weighing different things. For example, what if we change the wording slightly to, "the needs of the many outweigh the rights of the individual."
Here we aren’t even talking about “a few” but just one person. The calculus is simple. The many are more important than any individual when weighed in the balance. I’ve just changed one word really, and put even fewer people on one side than we had before. The one changed word, what we are weighing, is “right” v. “need”. Those seem close enough to the same thing that we can just move on. Our decision calculus is done.
Or is it? Do these words really mean the same thing? How close are they? Are we really weighing the same thing?
In order to clarify this, we need to look at what these words mean.
A need is something that must be supplied to achieve a specific state of existence. To put another way, without supplying what someone needs, a specific state of existence cannot be attained.
From Black's Law Dictionary (6th edition):
A right is intrinsic and cannot be removed (inalienable). A need must be supplied, which means it comes from an external source. It is by definition alienable. So however they should be looked at in a decision calculus, looking at them as the same thing is completely inappropriate.
Back to the balance analogy, it would be like putting 10oz of silver on one side and 1oz of gold on the other. Now which would you choose? The answer is not so simple. We would have to look at the current exchange rate, the supply and demand curves, etc. Its a completely different calculus. Thus equating the two becomes much more difficult. At the least it shows that a balance is the wrong tool to use to make a decision.
It becomes even more difficult when we think of who determines the "needs of the many" and the "rights of the individual." If the needs of the many is determined by the few at the top, have they correctly assessed those needs?
In the case of biology, the needs of the many are determined by the many, or more specifically all of the others together, each with their individual voice, not just a few at the top. It gets a little more complicated than that, since its largely determined by the immune system (the few at the top) and the immune system is respondent to the many (by a molecular voting system), so the parallels aren't all that dissimilar when you get into the nitty gritty. Nevertheless, the decision calculus for the "needs of the many" is not calculated the same on the social scale as it is on the cellular scale.
Lets look at the "rights of the individual" on the cellular scale. The cell has all sorts of individual rights, but stealing nutrients from other cells, or polluting the local environment (all things that happen before p53 is upregulated), or replicating without restriction and taking up all the available space (cancer) are not among those rights. Therefore, what we are really weighing in this case is the desires of the individual cell v. the needs of the many as determined by both the other individuals (whose needs cease to be met when a neighboring cell goes haywire) and the all the others needs (actual needs, determined by themselves) that make up the rest of the system when a cell becomes cancerous.
So in the case of the cellular example, the needs of the many are determined by all of the individuals of the many, putting in their individual voices that their needs are not being met because one cell is violating the natural constraint on their rights, which says "thou shalt not steal from thy neighbor cells, nor from the whole." Its actions will result in the death of all the neighbors, and eventually the whole organism. Therefore the individual cell has forfeited its right to live by its own action; a violation of the contract that it has with its neighbors not to actively harm them. (The word "actively" is incredibly important here.)
In the society case, the needs of the many are determined by committee, not by the individuals themselves. A committee that in this case was founded by the Rockefellers, and influenced by the Rothschilds, and who knows who else is involved. I suggest that the needs of the many on the one side of the scale are not in fact the needs of the many at all, but the desires of those at the top. They are being weighed against the rights (inalienable, can't be taken away) of the individual. The balance is weighing two completely different things, and therefore a balance is not the best tool for the job of making sound decisions.
Truly insightful post, I’m so glad you were inspired to share it
u/slyver
That’s a nice thought exercise and a great response. Although on the surface it seems like it’s a Marxist argument as in the collective needs to be protected from the individual, in reality the “elites” are the real cancer and have camaflouged themselves as part of the “collective” and aimed the destruction at those who raised the alarm bells. Much like real life cancer cells that evade the bodies defense system.
Would anyone argue that the corrupt elites need not be removed from society?
Another comparison for P53 would be the role of policeman. If the police was limiting the rights of a gang member, of course he would be a worker of light vs if the police were enforcing draconian rules on citizenry that would be different.
Checks and balances are needed.
Interesting point. What is one of our most “feared” diseases? HIV, which infects the bodies own immune cells, effectively guaranteeing its eventual success unless some other measure is taken
Very insightful comment, thanks for sharing it
Yeah, it's a marxist argument framed to justify lining up those they deem 'selfish' against the wall to be shot. Can't believe it was stickied.
Us debating and explaining the flaws in these arguments are among the most important things we can be doing. It is only after analyzing and debating such arguments that we can inform others of the errors in their reasoning. IMO it is exactly these types of topics that should be stickied (presented for debate) over all other topics. The results of such debate are the red pills needed to change the world.
"Hey guys, it's totally a good to put people up against the wall if they aren't acting in concert with the needs of the state right?"
This isn't a debate, and it wasn't posted with critique. This is someone stickying actual marxist dogma on great awakening and leaving it to people like me to be downvoted for pointing it out.
I didn't downvote you. I almost never downvote, and I certainly never do it because someone disagrees with me, or says something I disagree with.
Now that that is out of the way, the ONLY way to wake up the world is by showing people the truth. You can't tell them the truth, they have been brainwashed. That is why it must be shown. You can only show people the truth if you understand where they are coming from. You can only understand where people are coming from if you really try to understand their arguments.
You are welcome to call this "Marxist propaganda", that doesn't mean I agree. I think it is a legitimate question. Not everything Marxist is illegitimate in theory. That is why it has power. If it was all obviously wrong, it wouldn't be threatening to take over the planet. It is the misapplication of reasoning in the details that makes it so evil. In order to address those evils that have infiltrated the minds of the sleepers you must look at them, debate them, and understand them completely.
The search for truth when using reason, logic, science, law, etc. is always a debate.
Always.
Marxism allows leeches to feed off of others. They don’t rid of the non-contributors. It’s literally polar opposite to Marxism. Can’t believe you’re commenting this everywhere.
You're noting what marxism is in practice, I'm noting that this is a marxist justification for their priciples - Kill the rich because anyone that doesn't toe the line and takes more than they 'need' is a disservice to the greater organism. The body does this, therefore so ought society they argue.
It's an actual marxist argument that actual marxists use.
Cells get more than they “need” every day, in most humans living in the industrialized world. More salt than they need, more sugar than they need, more of all kinds of things than they need. These “selfish” cells are not being “lined up and shot”. The short story is discussing cancerous cells. Cells which break the very laws that raised them. These aren’t mere trespasses or transgressions, they are distortions so great that their greed and corruption spreads beyond themselves and poisons the entire being. It rewrites the laws themselves to ensure its undiminished growth.
Although, that’s just my interpretation. Isn’t the proof that it’s a genuine question evidenced in our vastly different answers?