Just like you can prove flying and driving unsafe by selectively focusing on certain stats, you can do the same to prove Covid-19 is dangerous. And thats exactly what they did to push their vaxx, and u fell for it, even though u understood this technique.
Right. Both sides (of the argument) are playing the same game. So you can 'prove' the vax is dangerous, I can 'prove' Covid is dangerous. So ultimately, it comes down to a choice. I'm willing to go with the decision of literally millions of professional, independent doctors. Don't get me wrong - I HATE big pharma and don't trust them, but I do trust the medical profession as a whole because it is made up of individuals like you and me.
but I do trust the medical profession as a whole because it is made up of individuals like you and me.
I decided to make a separate reply for this because I think this is VERY IMPORTANT. I understand completely what you mean by this. My own parents, inlaws, brother, and other extended family - everyone of them who understand how evil Big Pharma is, feel the same way as well - how can medical profession as a whole be lying to us? For what purpose?
I want to address the second part first. Is it made up of people like you and me? I dont know about you, but sadly they are not like me - and I dont mean that vainly, I mean it in a very specific way.
Two decades ago, I was in a very lucrative career on my way to the top echelons in silicon valley. But I gave up all that and left US simply because I was very disturbed by the morals of the high up people I kept meeting. This was before Big Tech became what it is now. While I did not know what these people were really up to, I knew they had no morals and no respect for general population.
If I were like these medical professionals, I would have had no qualms staying in and growing high, being one of the very same people in Big Tech who are censoring and oppressing us today. I quit all that, moved to Australia and live a simple life - because the very thought of being part of that crowd makes me want to throw up.
Now lets talk about the medical professionals. I asked my GP a few months ago about the vaccines and she said they are safe and she took it. I asked her whether she looked at any studies herself and she said she had no time for that but she trusted the community. Then I asked her whether alternatives works against Covid and she went quiet. She then whispered that she is not allowed to talk about that.
So firstly, this cog in the wheel is not adding any value of its own, since it trusts the Machine. So her being a medical professional adds no value to her assertion about the vaccine. But the more disturbing part - she is perfectly fine carrying on her profession while being threatened from openly discussing and expressing her opinions - which is a MUST for science.
I gave up everything for far less than that. I gave it all up for just a gut feeling that these people were not good. And she is actively allowing them to suppress her.
So no, these medical professionals are nothing like me (and I am guessing you).
Since you are on this site, you are probably open to looking for places outside mainstream-approved sources to confirm for yourself whether the medical profession is going along with the agenda of their own accord or are they coerced or are they just ignorant.
Find out how many medical professionals do not agree with the official narrative and what they are saying. Find out how many high profile doctors and scientists disagree with the narrative, and find out how many doctors have been successfully treating Covid without vaccines with very high success rates - we are talking about almost 100%.
Proving to yourself that you can indeed trust this medical profession and that they have not been hijacked is something you owe it to yourself.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply! Very different from the usual discourse here.
Regarding this comment:
Then I asked her whether alternatives works against Covid and she went quiet. She then whispered that she is not allowed to talk about that.
I have friends who are doctors and I don't hear anything like this. I agree they are busy and aren't always doing all the research, but there is absolutely no hint of a 'conspiracy' to suppress discussion about alternatives. One doctor friend has told me he's quite optimistic about Ivermectin, and he's totally opposed to 'Big Pharma' on many levels (profiting from disease, no incentive to actually 'cure' diseases, etc) but - he said the vaccine itself is a 'fine product' and fit for purpose. His complaint is that the vaccine solution is not suitable for 3rd world countries (financially), and he wants to see (eg) Ivermectin researched and (hopefully) approved for use in those 3rd world countries. But he thinks the vaccine is the best solution and appropriate for (eg) US, UK who can afford it.
I too worked in Silicon Valley my entire career until retirement, but had no issues with the people in general, other than a surprising level of naivety (about how Social Media is destructive). I do think Facebook is fundamentally evil, but not because they censor people; they are evil because they promote conflict and profit from it. I view people like Zuckerberg as immature leaders who are totally out of their depth ... but without evil intent.
I think if you can convince yourself that there are alternate solutions that far surpass the 95% efficacy touted by the vaccines (its dropped drastically even officially) then you will agree there is no necessity to the vaccines. You will also agree there is a conspiracy to hide these cures.
Find the clinical trial(s) for Remdesivir - which was the first approved medicine under EUA. Find out what was the result of that. Ask yourself why anyone would push this.
Find the study in Lancet that proved HCQ was deadly. This study was used to stop all HCQ trials. Confirm for yourself that it was a fraudulent study and was retracted by Lancet (which in itself is unprecedented). Ask yourself why anyone would go out of their way to publish a fraudulent study to prove something as safe as HCQ is dangerous. Remember, papers have to go through multiple layers of safeguards before being published in Lancet. All these people involved in this process are far more well established medical professionals than even normal doctors. Ask yourself why they would do that.
Checkout the clinical trial for Pfizer that was used to get EUA (and also to come up with the 95% efficacy). Convince for yourself that the efficacy data was based on people who caught covid during the study which was < 1%. Verify for yourself that no one in the study actually got hospitalized for Covid - neither in the Control group or in the Vaccine group. Convince yourself that this clinical trial never established that the vaccine stopped even a single person from being hospitalised or dying from Covid.
Find the continuation of that trial - 6 months one. It shows that 6 more people died in the Vaccine group than in the control group from all causes. You can also find the people who got disabled for life in that study who have not been counted in the result nor have they ever been compensated.
Finding the truth requires only one thing. Stop thinking that its impossible to fool/coerce the entire medical community, start looking for the truth by yourself.
If reading all these papers and digging into research is too heavy for you, at least be open to listening to what these preeminent scientists have to say.
So you can 'prove' the vax is dangerous, I can 'prove' Covid is dangerous
There is a subtle difference which I want to point out. Let me see if I can untangle this properly. Lets say for a second that our belief that "vax is dangerous" is wrong, and that it is infact just as safe as any average vaccine in history - does it make any difference in terms of whether I would take it or not?
Think about it for a second. Its not enough for a vaccine to be safe, it also needs to be effective AND it also needs to be necessary. It is clear now that vaccines are not necessary (so many doctors around the world have successfully treated Covid with alternate medicines - happy to elaborate if you dont believe me) and we also know its not effective (statistics around the world proves this, but so does Pfizer's own studies. Infact the original Pfizer clinical study used for EUA - if you take a look at it, you will see that it did not prove that the vaccines prevented hospitalisation or death of even a single person! And the efficacy determined in it was totally fraudulent - I am happy to explain if you dont believe this)
So, vaccines are niether effective nor necessary - so I dont even need to care whether they are safe or not.
I presume 'vaccines' in this context is just the Covid variety (Pfizer, JJ, AZ, Moderna) - or are you opposed to all vaccines?
I disagree that Pfizer is not effective. People seem to use the fact that the vaccines don't PREVENT infection as an automatic condemnation. If you wear a helmet on a motorcycle, it doesn't mean you will walk away from an accident without injury; it simply reduces the likelihood of serious head trauma / death. What the anti-vax folks are saying is the equivalent of - 'look, this guy still broke his arm when wearing a helmet so that proves helmets are useless'.
Anyway - I just read this article today - https://globalnews.ca/news/8243462/pfizer-covid-vaccine-six-months-study/ . I realize this is Pfizer's own study and is reported by Reuters, which probably automatically invalidates it to you, but there are hundreds of similar studies and reports (I'm just posting this one as an example of the hundreds of similar reports). I don't expect the vax to stop me from getting infected; I expect it to stop me from getting hospitalized or ending up dead. I believe there is proof that this is the case. Maybe Ivermectin, Zinc, HCQ, etc will also achieve that but I get the 'vax' for free, it takes 5 minutes, and lasts at least 6 months ... vs taking a hard-to-find cocktail of other meds on a daily basis for months.
As an aside, I would say I know at least 100 people personally who've taken the vax and have not been negatively affected. Beyond that, I'm a member of various online communities where I'd say at least another several hundred people have mentioned taking the vax and have not had any negative reaction. These are people and communities that don't have an axe to grind or political agenda - so I'm comfortable believing them.
I will definitely go through Pfizer's 6 month study (I spent way too much time on the 3 month study that I only skimmed through the 6 month study).
I realize this is Pfizer's own study and is reported by Reuters, which probably automatically invalidates it to you,
Again you get me wrong. I am not anti-science, infact you can call me anti-anti-science. Like I said, the main reason I decided Pfizer vaccine was a scam was only after I went through their 3 month study in detail to understand exactly how they calculated the 95% efficacy. Every study is important, because I dont just look at the conclusion but rather what was exactly proven in the study.
or are you opposed to all vaccines?
I have taken all my other vaccines, so has my wife and the same with our son. I am not opposed to safe, necessary and effective vaccines. I used to be the guy, even just a year ago, who would heartily make fun of anti-vaxxers. But there are certain things I would actively push for after this debacle.
Vaccine companies should not have any special liability protections
Vaccines should not have any proprietary ingredients that are not disclosed
Contracts that companies have with vaccine companies should be completely disclosed - every line of it.
Doctors should be forced to disclose what incentive they get from pushing a vaccine
Studies should be conducted all over the world comparing vaccinated children vs unvaccinated children. I have read that in the past any doctor who tried to compile this was coerced into dropping it. Anecdotal. But regardless, this study needs to be done actively.
Long term safety studies should be conducted by independant groups and the results published priodically
Get rid of the word vaccine-hesitant as an official label, forever.
And finally, dont get me wrong. I am not trying to convince that getting vaxxed is the wrong choice for you. As long as you feel you are completely informed, and you are willing to take it, power to you! My issue is only with those who blame unvaccinated people for the woes of the vaccinated. If somehow the vaccines have this magical property that they dont work unless everyone takes it, then i call bullshit on that.
My bigger issue is not people taking vaccines (I do hope they can be detoxed, if it is indeed true that vaccines are toxic in long term), but the fact that doctors are actively being suppressed from prescribing whatever they deem suitable for Covid-19, like doctors have been doing for every disease throughout the history.
I believe whether you took the vaxx or not, you should also actively be standing up against any form of medical coercion.
I don't think you and I are far from each other in terms of our positions. I thoroughly despise 'Big Pharma' because they profit from disease and have little incentive to produce actual 'cures'; healthy people don't need expensive drugs.
Regarding the special liability protections, I agree with you in general but I do accept that for Covid, a 'fast track' solution was desired under the circumstances and liability protections were a natural consequence. All drugs understandably require lengthy trial periods and no pharm company would commit to a 'fast track' without protections - so that just 'goes with the territory'.
Where I differ from 'many' of the people here on GA is that - while I hate 'big pharma' - I don't think they would intentionally develop a poisonous vaccine, and I don't think that our doctors and nurses are involved in some giant conspiracy to deploy a dangerous vaccine. Yes, a hospital may get some incentive to classify a patient as 'Covid', but beyond that, I simply don't see the vast, independent network of hospitals and medical groups collectively exerting the level of control that would be necessary to pull something like that off. Maybe in the UK (where I grew up), where they have a somewhat monolithic healthcare system, but not in the US, which has a loose association of private, independent businesses.
Doctors, like lawyers, are an arrogant, pain-in-the-ass group of people but for all the criticisms I'd lay at their feet, being easily manipulated is not one of their characteristics. I simply cannot conceive of a situation where the vast majority of doctors and nurses, worldwide, would collectively agree to a) push something that is bad, and/or b) suppress something that is good. Doctors and nurses are, as a whole, truly committed to the health and wellbeing of their patients.
Right. Both sides (of the argument) are playing the same game. So you can 'prove' the vax is dangerous, I can 'prove' Covid is dangerous. So ultimately, it comes down to a choice. I'm willing to go with the decision of literally millions of professional, independent doctors. Don't get me wrong - I HATE big pharma and don't trust them, but I do trust the medical profession as a whole because it is made up of individuals like you and me.
I decided to make a separate reply for this because I think this is VERY IMPORTANT. I understand completely what you mean by this. My own parents, inlaws, brother, and other extended family - everyone of them who understand how evil Big Pharma is, feel the same way as well - how can medical profession as a whole be lying to us? For what purpose?
I want to address the second part first. Is it made up of people like you and me? I dont know about you, but sadly they are not like me - and I dont mean that vainly, I mean it in a very specific way.
Two decades ago, I was in a very lucrative career on my way to the top echelons in silicon valley. But I gave up all that and left US simply because I was very disturbed by the morals of the high up people I kept meeting. This was before Big Tech became what it is now. While I did not know what these people were really up to, I knew they had no morals and no respect for general population.
If I were like these medical professionals, I would have had no qualms staying in and growing high, being one of the very same people in Big Tech who are censoring and oppressing us today. I quit all that, moved to Australia and live a simple life - because the very thought of being part of that crowd makes me want to throw up.
Now lets talk about the medical professionals. I asked my GP a few months ago about the vaccines and she said they are safe and she took it. I asked her whether she looked at any studies herself and she said she had no time for that but she trusted the community. Then I asked her whether alternatives works against Covid and she went quiet. She then whispered that she is not allowed to talk about that.
So firstly, this cog in the wheel is not adding any value of its own, since it trusts the Machine. So her being a medical professional adds no value to her assertion about the vaccine. But the more disturbing part - she is perfectly fine carrying on her profession while being threatened from openly discussing and expressing her opinions - which is a MUST for science.
I gave up everything for far less than that. I gave it all up for just a gut feeling that these people were not good. And she is actively allowing them to suppress her.
So no, these medical professionals are nothing like me (and I am guessing you).
Since you are on this site, you are probably open to looking for places outside mainstream-approved sources to confirm for yourself whether the medical profession is going along with the agenda of their own accord or are they coerced or are they just ignorant.
Find out how many medical professionals do not agree with the official narrative and what they are saying. Find out how many high profile doctors and scientists disagree with the narrative, and find out how many doctors have been successfully treating Covid without vaccines with very high success rates - we are talking about almost 100%.
Proving to yourself that you can indeed trust this medical profession and that they have not been hijacked is something you owe it to yourself.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply! Very different from the usual discourse here.
Regarding this comment:
I have friends who are doctors and I don't hear anything like this. I agree they are busy and aren't always doing all the research, but there is absolutely no hint of a 'conspiracy' to suppress discussion about alternatives. One doctor friend has told me he's quite optimistic about Ivermectin, and he's totally opposed to 'Big Pharma' on many levels (profiting from disease, no incentive to actually 'cure' diseases, etc) but - he said the vaccine itself is a 'fine product' and fit for purpose. His complaint is that the vaccine solution is not suitable for 3rd world countries (financially), and he wants to see (eg) Ivermectin researched and (hopefully) approved for use in those 3rd world countries. But he thinks the vaccine is the best solution and appropriate for (eg) US, UK who can afford it.
I too worked in Silicon Valley my entire career until retirement, but had no issues with the people in general, other than a surprising level of naivety (about how Social Media is destructive). I do think Facebook is fundamentally evil, but not because they censor people; they are evil because they promote conflict and profit from it. I view people like Zuckerberg as immature leaders who are totally out of their depth ... but without evil intent.
So for those who are interested in learning the truth I offer a few places to start.
(For now, just put aside the fact that your doctor friends dont think anything is amiss, we will come back to it later)
I think if you can convince yourself that there are alternate solutions that far surpass the 95% efficacy touted by the vaccines (its dropped drastically even officially) then you will agree there is no necessity to the vaccines. You will also agree there is a conspiracy to hide these cures.
Find the clinical trial(s) for Remdesivir - which was the first approved medicine under EUA. Find out what was the result of that. Ask yourself why anyone would push this.
Find the study in Lancet that proved HCQ was deadly. This study was used to stop all HCQ trials. Confirm for yourself that it was a fraudulent study and was retracted by Lancet (which in itself is unprecedented). Ask yourself why anyone would go out of their way to publish a fraudulent study to prove something as safe as HCQ is dangerous. Remember, papers have to go through multiple layers of safeguards before being published in Lancet. All these people involved in this process are far more well established medical professionals than even normal doctors. Ask yourself why they would do that.
Checkout the clinical trial for Pfizer that was used to get EUA (and also to come up with the 95% efficacy). Convince for yourself that the efficacy data was based on people who caught covid during the study which was < 1%. Verify for yourself that no one in the study actually got hospitalized for Covid - neither in the Control group or in the Vaccine group. Convince yourself that this clinical trial never established that the vaccine stopped even a single person from being hospitalised or dying from Covid.
Find the continuation of that trial - 6 months one. It shows that 6 more people died in the Vaccine group than in the control group from all causes. You can also find the people who got disabled for life in that study who have not been counted in the result nor have they ever been compensated.
Finding the truth requires only one thing. Stop thinking that its impossible to fool/coerce the entire medical community, start looking for the truth by yourself.
If reading all these papers and digging into research is too heavy for you, at least be open to listening to what these preeminent scientists have to say.
Dr Richard Fleming explains the virus and the vaccine really well
Dr Zelenko tells everything you need to know in 10 mins
Dr Bhakdi explains the ADE reactions
Dr Malone talks about Spike proteins
Declaration by thousands of doctors
Actual doctors discussing vaccine reactions
Brian Ardis about Remdesivir
One of the first articles about origin of virus - good read
Sky news reporting on origin of the virus
There is a subtle difference which I want to point out. Let me see if I can untangle this properly. Lets say for a second that our belief that "vax is dangerous" is wrong, and that it is infact just as safe as any average vaccine in history - does it make any difference in terms of whether I would take it or not?
Think about it for a second. Its not enough for a vaccine to be safe, it also needs to be effective AND it also needs to be necessary. It is clear now that vaccines are not necessary (so many doctors around the world have successfully treated Covid with alternate medicines - happy to elaborate if you dont believe me) and we also know its not effective (statistics around the world proves this, but so does Pfizer's own studies. Infact the original Pfizer clinical study used for EUA - if you take a look at it, you will see that it did not prove that the vaccines prevented hospitalisation or death of even a single person! And the efficacy determined in it was totally fraudulent - I am happy to explain if you dont believe this)
So, vaccines are niether effective nor necessary - so I dont even need to care whether they are safe or not.
Again - thanks for the engaging discussion!
I presume 'vaccines' in this context is just the Covid variety (Pfizer, JJ, AZ, Moderna) - or are you opposed to all vaccines?
I disagree that Pfizer is not effective. People seem to use the fact that the vaccines don't PREVENT infection as an automatic condemnation. If you wear a helmet on a motorcycle, it doesn't mean you will walk away from an accident without injury; it simply reduces the likelihood of serious head trauma / death. What the anti-vax folks are saying is the equivalent of - 'look, this guy still broke his arm when wearing a helmet so that proves helmets are useless'.
Anyway - I just read this article today - https://globalnews.ca/news/8243462/pfizer-covid-vaccine-six-months-study/ . I realize this is Pfizer's own study and is reported by Reuters, which probably automatically invalidates it to you, but there are hundreds of similar studies and reports (I'm just posting this one as an example of the hundreds of similar reports). I don't expect the vax to stop me from getting infected; I expect it to stop me from getting hospitalized or ending up dead. I believe there is proof that this is the case. Maybe Ivermectin, Zinc, HCQ, etc will also achieve that but I get the 'vax' for free, it takes 5 minutes, and lasts at least 6 months ... vs taking a hard-to-find cocktail of other meds on a daily basis for months.
As an aside, I would say I know at least 100 people personally who've taken the vax and have not been negatively affected. Beyond that, I'm a member of various online communities where I'd say at least another several hundred people have mentioned taking the vax and have not had any negative reaction. These are people and communities that don't have an axe to grind or political agenda - so I'm comfortable believing them.
I will definitely go through Pfizer's 6 month study (I spent way too much time on the 3 month study that I only skimmed through the 6 month study).
Again you get me wrong. I am not anti-science, infact you can call me anti-anti-science. Like I said, the main reason I decided Pfizer vaccine was a scam was only after I went through their 3 month study in detail to understand exactly how they calculated the 95% efficacy. Every study is important, because I dont just look at the conclusion but rather what was exactly proven in the study.
I have taken all my other vaccines, so has my wife and the same with our son. I am not opposed to safe, necessary and effective vaccines. I used to be the guy, even just a year ago, who would heartily make fun of anti-vaxxers. But there are certain things I would actively push for after this debacle.
Vaccine companies should not have any special liability protections
Vaccines should not have any proprietary ingredients that are not disclosed
Contracts that companies have with vaccine companies should be completely disclosed - every line of it.
Doctors should be forced to disclose what incentive they get from pushing a vaccine
Studies should be conducted all over the world comparing vaccinated children vs unvaccinated children. I have read that in the past any doctor who tried to compile this was coerced into dropping it. Anecdotal. But regardless, this study needs to be done actively.
Long term safety studies should be conducted by independant groups and the results published priodically
Get rid of the word vaccine-hesitant as an official label, forever.
And finally, dont get me wrong. I am not trying to convince that getting vaxxed is the wrong choice for you. As long as you feel you are completely informed, and you are willing to take it, power to you! My issue is only with those who blame unvaccinated people for the woes of the vaccinated. If somehow the vaccines have this magical property that they dont work unless everyone takes it, then i call bullshit on that.
My bigger issue is not people taking vaccines (I do hope they can be detoxed, if it is indeed true that vaccines are toxic in long term), but the fact that doctors are actively being suppressed from prescribing whatever they deem suitable for Covid-19, like doctors have been doing for every disease throughout the history.
I believe whether you took the vaxx or not, you should also actively be standing up against any form of medical coercion.
Thanks again for engaging with civility.
I don't think you and I are far from each other in terms of our positions. I thoroughly despise 'Big Pharma' because they profit from disease and have little incentive to produce actual 'cures'; healthy people don't need expensive drugs.
Regarding the special liability protections, I agree with you in general but I do accept that for Covid, a 'fast track' solution was desired under the circumstances and liability protections were a natural consequence. All drugs understandably require lengthy trial periods and no pharm company would commit to a 'fast track' without protections - so that just 'goes with the territory'.
Where I differ from 'many' of the people here on GA is that - while I hate 'big pharma' - I don't think they would intentionally develop a poisonous vaccine, and I don't think that our doctors and nurses are involved in some giant conspiracy to deploy a dangerous vaccine. Yes, a hospital may get some incentive to classify a patient as 'Covid', but beyond that, I simply don't see the vast, independent network of hospitals and medical groups collectively exerting the level of control that would be necessary to pull something like that off. Maybe in the UK (where I grew up), where they have a somewhat monolithic healthcare system, but not in the US, which has a loose association of private, independent businesses.
Doctors, like lawyers, are an arrogant, pain-in-the-ass group of people but for all the criticisms I'd lay at their feet, being easily manipulated is not one of their characteristics. I simply cannot conceive of a situation where the vast majority of doctors and nurses, worldwide, would collectively agree to a) push something that is bad, and/or b) suppress something that is good. Doctors and nurses are, as a whole, truly committed to the health and wellbeing of their patients.