I am sure others struggle with this.. Thanks
You're viewing a single comment thread. View all comments, or full comment thread.
Comments (497)
sorted by:
How does one get eternal punishment without eternal life?
To make it really easy for you, life =/= existence in the Hebrew or Greek language. It has to do with the quality of your existence.
“Eternal life” is living as part of the body of Christ with God in heaven. “Eternal death” is being put behind him, receiving his wrath, being spiritually dead forever They’re both being used to describe what happens to you spiritually.
The Bible is clear on everyone being spiritually dead until salvation.
“And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world” ... “ But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ”
Notice how he doesn’t says we “deserved death” but “were dead.” So EVERYONE is dead until we are made alive together with Christ.
What do you think that means? Being made alive TOGETHER with Christ? Aren’t we all already alive according to you?
It’s a repeated concept:
“And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses”
Again, he doesn’t say “and you, deserving death for your sins...”, he says “and you, BEING dead IN your sins...”
Lazarus was an example of how we are all dead and can do nothing for ourselves unless God calls on us to raise us to life. No man comes to the Father unless He calls him. That’s because we were all once dead and incapable of anything good. Do you want to be dead forever? I hate looking back on my dead self, I was completely without thought or care.
Can you point me to the scripture that references this?
What’s the point in responding to you when you don’t even read my response and ask questions that I’ve already answered?
I literally just gave you two in the previous comment and thoroughly explained it. Are you a retard or what? Do you want me to write a thesis for you? I’m definitely wasting my time here. Read what I’m writing, you don’t even pay attention lol.
I can’t reply to your newest comment so replying here.
Nowhere did you provide a scripture that shows life has to do with the quality of your existence, I’m just seeking more information.
Your hostility and condescension through this whole conversation is simply, unbecoming of a Christian to be honest. I’m over here excitedly reading through passages and elated at the opportunity to discuss the Bible. I even thanked you for your responses earlier. You seem like you’re solely trying to win an argument and when I ask for more info you get upset that I haven’t just agreed with you. And sharing scriptures is never a waste of time brother.
I found a site that actually already thoroughly refutes your notion. All you had to do was search and read, it was the top result. I’ll paste the most important parts for you.
“the word translated “destruction” in Philippians 3:19 is used elsewhere to describe the idea of wasting something of value (Matt. 26:8).”
“the same word is also used in Revelation 17:8 to describe the punishment of the beast. Then, in Revelation 20:10, the beast is said to be “tormented day and night forever and ever.” Clearly, though the beast is said to be destroyed, that does not mean he ceases to exist, since his torment is unending.”
“In the case of John 3:16, the word translated “perish” often does not refer to cessation of existence. For example, in Johannine literature, the word frequently refers to loss, in the sense of no longer in one’s possession (e.g. John 6:12, 39; 17:12; 18:9). In Matthew 9:17, for example, the word is used to describe damage (“the wineskins burst, and the wine pours out and the wineskins are ruined”).”
“The word translated “destruction” in 2 Thessalonians 1:9 is a different NT word. Elsewhere, for example in 1 Corinthians 5:5, Paul uses the word to describe the destruction of an individual’s body in the case of church discipline. The purpose of that destruction is repentance and restoration.”
“If cessation of existence was meant in places like 2 Thessalonians 1:9, then the modifier, “eternal,” would be useless. To paraphrase, the rendering would be, “eternal ceasing to exist.” If NT writers wanted to communicate cessation of existence, they would have not included the term “eternal” to describe hell.”
“ One of the biggest problems for annihilationism is Matthew 25:46, which reads, “And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Annihilationists often teach that the NT words translated, “eternal” or “everlasting” do not refer to endless duration but “pertaining to the age to come” or “having eternal consequences.” There are serious problems with this view, however. First, the assertion that “eternal” refers to “pertaining/belonging to the age to come” is an imposed rendering of the word αἰώνιον in the context of Matthew 25:46. If NT writers wanted to communicate “pertaining/belonging to the age to come,” they would have used a different phrase in Greek; something along the lines of phrase ἐν τῷ αἰῶνι μέλλοντι and not the adjective, αἰώνιον, as Jesus did. Second, even if the word is taken as “pertaining to the age to come,” that does not further the annihilationist position. Scripture always refers to the age to come as one of unceasing duration. Thus, the age to come, whether for the redeemed or unredeemed, will be unending. Third, Greek references predominantly render the word αἰώνιον as “eternal” and/or “unlimited duration” (e.g. DBL, Louw-Nida, TDNT). Fourth, rendering the word “having eternal consequences” does not serve in favor of annihilationism. If the damned ceased to exist, there would not be eternal consequences. Instead, the consequences of their unredeemed state are finite: they cease to exist, therefore, the consequences cease with their annihilation. Fifth, the parallel description of heaven and hell with the word “eternal” invalidates the annihilationist position. Outside of Matthew 25:46, heaven is frequently spoken of as unending (e.g. Matt. 19:29, John 10:28, Rev. 21:4). Matthew 25:46 speaks likewise. And, Jesus uses the same word to describe heaven and hell. Consequently, since heaven is unending, and described as such with αἰώνιον, hell must also be unending since αἰώνιον is also used. The miseries of the unredeemed in hell will last as long as the glories of the redeemed in heaven. To assert otherwise violates the plain sense rendering of the verse.”
“if NT writers wanted to describe the cessation of existence, they could have used the Greek words, παύω or καταπαύω. These words carry the idea of cessation, to cease, or stop. Considering the perspicuity of Scripture and the severe nature of the doctrine of hell, we can safely assume that NT writers would have used these words, since they would clearly communicate annihilation. However, the word is never mentioned in reference to the unredeemed in hell. Instead, words communicating unceasing duration are frequently used.”
“Several other passages describe hell as unending. A plain sense understanding of passages such as Daniel 12:2, Matthew 18:8, Mark 9:47-48, 2 Thessalonians 1:9, and Revelation 14:9-11 demonstrate the eternality of hell.”
https://www.crosswalk.com/slideshows/9-points-that-argue-the-eternality-of-hell.html
The Bible is clear on us all being dead until we are saved. Re read those two passages in that last comment. Why don’t you explain why the Bible says in two different passages that we are all dead until Christ saves us to give us life, since you think death means not existing? It is literally not even two steps of logic to follow to get that “eternal death” is never being saved from this state. And then it’s just one more step to realize that they are thrown into a lake of fire where the torment lasts forever and ever, where the punishment is described as EVERLASTING and ETERNAL.
Oh woe is you!
I’m defending the Bible for what it very clearly says because I love the Word of God more than anything, even you and your feelings, and am calling you a fool because you are injecting your own meaning into it and aren’t even arguing honestly. You don’t even acknowledge much of what I say, I just keep having to repeat myself. I think Jesus would be even harsher on you, I just follow his example.
Casting pearls before swine is precisely a biblical example where sharing Scripture is a waste of time.