I would caution against lumping atheists and agnostics together, for what it's worth.
Agnosticism is the natural evolution of those who haven't found God. They don't reject God or his teachings, but tend to believe that whether he exists or not is irrelevant and impossible to prove by the nature of the omnipotence that is claimed.
Atheism are those who openly reject God and his teachings, and it is a natural evolution of those who feel wronged by God or felt like he wasn't there for them or their loved ones; modern atheism has artificially accelerated this, by teaching atheism as a religion in itself and removes what used to not be super uncommon in the above people.
Atheists could find God and repent later in their lives, realizing that they were wrong and coming to terms with what they lost.
Modern day atheist teachings have all but removed this potential, instead aiming the people at Christianity specifically as a weapon.
I am agnostic. I don't fully know what to believe, and I believe it doesn't matter because proof cannot be provided. I don't like organized religion, and I have beliefs to an extent in a greater being but I can't base my life on a book that has been repeatedly written by mankind over the years.
I can use the good from those teachings to shape my moral compass when I need to search for answers, and I was raised in a Christian oriented country with good Christian values, so as long as I adhere to how I was raised and do my best to raise my children the same, then I am doing the best I can.
A really heartwarming comment to read. Best comment I've read on GAW for some time.
I'd just like to comment on one thing: modern atheism.
I know of (and agree with) a school of Christian thought that sees human history as the playing out of specific issues that arose within the first human progenitors. Specifically, the scriptural "family of Adam". All the core issues are there. Faithlessness on the part of Adam and Eve in God's command, unity with a different 'word" (eat the fruit), so you have disunity with the parent, then conjugal (husband wife) breakdown, and a distortion of correct order: Adam was meant to be sovereign Aka lord over the Angels, but an angel seduced him and reversed the correct order. This then that bore fruit in the children, Cain and Abel, and the rest is history.
In this school of thought, Cain, the elder son, represented relative evil, and Abel, the younger, represented relative good. If Cain had humbled himself to Abel, and united with him, it would have essentially 'reversed' the incorrect order of the Angel dominating and ruling over Adam. But, instead, the same violation of the fall repeated itself, when Cain murdered Abel, and thus multiplied the problem instead of reversing it.
Human history as taught through scripture is the story of reversing the mistakes that began at the start of human history.
In this school of thought, the modern era is the era when that 'fallen human history' is being brought to a close> in our fallen human history, the Cain-Abel problem expanded from the individual and family levels, to the clan level, the ethnic group level, the national level, and eventually to the worldwide level.
Thus, the Soviet Union, founded on Atheistic Materialism - Marxist was in the position of a global Cain, and the United States, founded on the principles of Faith or recognition of God and the spiritual / material nature of human existence, was in the position of Abel.
Modern atheistic teaching is nothing other than a Satanic word (philosophy), created by evil to destroy and murder Abel and murder (again) Adam.
On the global level, when the Soviet Union collapsed, the United States rose as the Abel not murdered, and the ancient reversal of the Angel - Adam, Cain - Abel disorder was reversed conditionally on the global level.
However, that condition now has to be brought from the realm of "symbolic condition" to a substantial realization, which is why the forces of Good are substantially and directly engaged with rooting out the forces of Evil. If Soviet vs US was Cain vs Abel, now we are engaged in a war between Adam and the Angel. Adam is the God-acknowledging human vs the Angel, which is the Luciferian spirit that wants to replace God and make themselves somehow god.
"Modern Atheism" is nothing but an ideological framework put out by the devil in order to attack and deny God. But, at its root, it is driven by forces that seek to replace God, make themselves god. They know that God is real. But they use the deception of saying "no God" in order to delude and manipulate people into becoming cooperative and self-destructive instruments.
Anyway, just offering another perspective on the context of our modern times. It might mean nothing to you; I'm not attempting to convert you out of your agnosticism!!!! It's just that your (to my mind) perspicacious comments about the nature of 'modern atheism' brought to these salient points to my mind, so I thought I would share.
I'll leave it there, except to add (one point), if 'the book' has any value, it's because it has the potential or ability to be a become a springboard for an actual relationship with an actual person or being. In other words, (in my view) people aren't meant to base their lives on a book. They are meant to take hints from the book, like a map, to find and discover the one who (reportedly) is reaching out via the book. Ultimately, however, that person or being is more concerned with the content of our heart than with the concepts or 'beliefs' we hold to be true.
Better to be an agnostic with a good heart than a 'believer' who is otherwise unable to give or receive love.
I agree it's a bit of a over simplification, but one could argue Agnosticism as a gateway to Atheism.
And in all humility, I have no malaise for any without or in doubt. My issue is with those who use it to force views upon the rest of us that are diametrically opposed to faith.
It was my desire to live my life of faith in peace, accepting and respecting your choices along the way.
Other would not allow it, so here we are.
Hearts and minds are won or lost in exchanges of open, honest, considerate and respectful dialogue, this is the only path forward to any who truly want peace and enlightenment.
The rest are merchants of misery and hate, and must be met with force and resolve by us all...
I would caution against lumping atheists and agnostics together, for what it's worth.
Agnosticism is the natural evolution of those who haven't found God. They don't reject God or his teachings, but tend to believe that whether he exists or not is irrelevant and impossible to prove by the nature of the omnipotence that is claimed.
Atheism are those who openly reject God and his teachings, and it is a natural evolution of those who feel wronged by God or felt like he wasn't there for them or their loved ones; modern atheism has artificially accelerated this, by teaching atheism as a religion in itself and removes what used to not be super uncommon in the above people.
Atheists could find God and repent later in their lives, realizing that they were wrong and coming to terms with what they lost.
Modern day atheist teachings have all but removed this potential, instead aiming the people at Christianity specifically as a weapon.
I am agnostic. I don't fully know what to believe, and I believe it doesn't matter because proof cannot be provided. I don't like organized religion, and I have beliefs to an extent in a greater being but I can't base my life on a book that has been repeatedly written by mankind over the years.
I can use the good from those teachings to shape my moral compass when I need to search for answers, and I was raised in a Christian oriented country with good Christian values, so as long as I adhere to how I was raised and do my best to raise my children the same, then I am doing the best I can.
A really heartwarming comment to read. Best comment I've read on GAW for some time.
I'd just like to comment on one thing: modern atheism.
I know of (and agree with) a school of Christian thought that sees human history as the playing out of specific issues that arose within the first human progenitors. Specifically, the scriptural "family of Adam". All the core issues are there. Faithlessness on the part of Adam and Eve in God's command, unity with a different 'word" (eat the fruit), so you have disunity with the parent, then conjugal (husband wife) breakdown, and a distortion of correct order: Adam was meant to be sovereign Aka lord over the Angels, but an angel seduced him and reversed the correct order. This then that bore fruit in the children, Cain and Abel, and the rest is history.
In this school of thought, Cain, the elder son, represented relative evil, and Abel, the younger, represented relative good. If Cain had humbled himself to Abel, and united with him, it would have essentially 'reversed' the incorrect order of the Angel dominating and ruling over Adam. But, instead, the same violation of the fall repeated itself, when Cain murdered Abel, and thus multiplied the problem instead of reversing it.
Human history as taught through scripture is the story of reversing the mistakes that began at the start of human history.
In this school of thought, the modern era is the era when that 'fallen human history' is being brought to a close> in our fallen human history, the Cain-Abel problem expanded from the individual and family levels, to the clan level, the ethnic group level, the national level, and eventually to the worldwide level.
Thus, the Soviet Union, founded on Atheistic Materialism - Marxist was in the position of a global Cain, and the United States, founded on the principles of Faith or recognition of God and the spiritual / material nature of human existence, was in the position of Abel.
Modern atheistic teaching is nothing other than a Satanic word (philosophy), created by evil to destroy and murder Abel and murder (again) Adam.
On the global level, when the Soviet Union collapsed, the United States rose as the Abel not murdered, and the ancient reversal of the Angel - Adam, Cain - Abel disorder was reversed conditionally on the global level.
However, that condition now has to be brought from the realm of "symbolic condition" to a substantial realization, which is why the forces of Good are substantially and directly engaged with rooting out the forces of Evil. If Soviet vs US was Cain vs Abel, now we are engaged in a war between Adam and the Angel. Adam is the God-acknowledging human vs the Angel, which is the Luciferian spirit that wants to replace God and make themselves somehow god.
"Modern Atheism" is nothing but an ideological framework put out by the devil in order to attack and deny God. But, at its root, it is driven by forces that seek to replace God, make themselves god. They know that God is real. But they use the deception of saying "no God" in order to delude and manipulate people into becoming cooperative and self-destructive instruments.
Anyway, just offering another perspective on the context of our modern times. It might mean nothing to you; I'm not attempting to convert you out of your agnosticism!!!! It's just that your (to my mind) perspicacious comments about the nature of 'modern atheism' brought to these salient points to my mind, so I thought I would share.
I'll leave it there, except to add (one point), if 'the book' has any value, it's because it has the potential or ability to be a become a springboard for an actual relationship with an actual person or being. In other words, (in my view) people aren't meant to base their lives on a book. They are meant to take hints from the book, like a map, to find and discover the one who (reportedly) is reaching out via the book. Ultimately, however, that person or being is more concerned with the content of our heart than with the concepts or 'beliefs' we hold to be true.
Better to be an agnostic with a good heart than a 'believer' who is otherwise unable to give or receive love.
Well said, deep and thought perplexing. I'll be chewing on that analogy for days.
Thank you for sharing.
I agree it's a bit of a over simplification, but one could argue Agnosticism as a gateway to Atheism.
And in all humility, I have no malaise for any without or in doubt. My issue is with those who use it to force views upon the rest of us that are diametrically opposed to faith.
It was my desire to live my life of faith in peace, accepting and respecting your choices along the way.
Other would not allow it, so here we are.
Hearts and minds are won or lost in exchanges of open, honest, considerate and respectful dialogue, this is the only path forward to any who truly want peace and enlightenment.
The rest are merchants of misery and hate, and must be met with force and resolve by us all...
Much Love and Respect
My Agnostic Friend.