100%. "Small arms fire" is not going to hit an F35 at 2500 feet in the air with enough accuracy to not have collateral damage.
.50 BMG may pack a punch, but is it enough to go through titanium plating at 760 meters, upward while competing against gravity and drag? Obviously it would be enough if it were straight on (depending on the thickness of the titanium, but I would imagine the titanium around an F35 would not be very thick for aerodynamic reasons) but there are a lot of factors that would slow a large round like that down, and when speed goes down, penetrative force goes down.
I guess in theory it's possible, but while I don't have personal knowledge about being on the receiving end of that type of fire in an F-35, I would expect it to be noticeable if you were taking .50 BMG fire. Not just small "pings".
Small arms fire absolutely can hit a hovering F35 at 2500. Lots of shooters regularly practice 3000' shots with smaller caliber rounds like .308. Their targets are much smaller than an F35. Completely reasonable. Not necessarily easy at all but totally within the realm of very possible that someone with hobby experience in firearms could hit something as large as a hovering f35 at 2500 feet.
What is your point about collateral damage? A hit is a hit. A .50 bullet hitting an aircraft can absolutely still have enough kinetic force to cause some serious damage to an aircraft. Aircraft are not tanks, this is not an A-10. They are susceptible to damage from small arms fire. They are a multi role jet including close air support but are not built like an A-10 and might be susceptible to small arms especially something as large as .50 cal. If you're referring to the pings, watch some videos with cameras around targets getting hit like car frames or washing machines. Hits are like pings. An airfarme is very rigid design with a connected structure. Although im sure the cockpit is loud, you likely have a known "normal" noise signature and when something smacks the frame of your aircraft at 2500 feet per second at 650grains your going to hear that ping resonate through the frame. Ping is probably exactly how it would be described. At 2500 feet, .50 velocity should still be around 1500fps (based on some quick research). If you mean it should results in parts flying off, well that completely depends on what gets hit, I'm sure there are spots that will just cause fly through impacts. The post says alerts starting showing up. If your expectation is hollywood fireball and flames, it's not always like that.
Great analysis. And you invoking the a-10 only just goes to show how ludicrously stupid it is anyone thinking the f-35 could just casually step into the CAS role
I agree, and the repeated attempts to get rid of the A-10 make no sense other than as an effort to weaken protection for our ground troops. I don't know of anything more effective in this role than the A-10, and the troops clearly love them. A-10s do the job.
EDIT: Below, an A-10 pilot making a case for moving the F/A-18E/Fs Super Hornets into the role now occupied by the A-10. He makes a good case, and his major concern in getting rid of the A-10 is a loss of the knowledge base required to use air power (piloting and support) to properly supply support to ground troops:
The common misconception between USAF leadership and we, the A-10C community, is that we are ready to die on the hill to keep the A-10 alive forever.
The reality is quite the opposite.
What we care about most is keeping the corporate knowledge of counter-land tactics, techniques, and procedures (TTPs) alive regardless of the airframe. Presently, the threat of that knowledge dying off is very real given that the A-10C is being divested with no plan for follow on aircraft.
It's poppycock... Didn't happen.
100%. "Small arms fire" is not going to hit an F35 at 2500 feet in the air with enough accuracy to not have collateral damage.
.50 BMG may pack a punch, but is it enough to go through titanium plating at 760 meters, upward while competing against gravity and drag? Obviously it would be enough if it were straight on (depending on the thickness of the titanium, but I would imagine the titanium around an F35 would not be very thick for aerodynamic reasons) but there are a lot of factors that would slow a large round like that down, and when speed goes down, penetrative force goes down.
I guess in theory it's possible, but while I don't have personal knowledge about being on the receiving end of that type of fire in an F-35, I would expect it to be noticeable if you were taking .50 BMG fire. Not just small "pings".
Small arms fire absolutely can hit a hovering F35 at 2500. Lots of shooters regularly practice 3000' shots with smaller caliber rounds like .308. Their targets are much smaller than an F35. Completely reasonable. Not necessarily easy at all but totally within the realm of very possible that someone with hobby experience in firearms could hit something as large as a hovering f35 at 2500 feet.
What is your point about collateral damage? A hit is a hit. A .50 bullet hitting an aircraft can absolutely still have enough kinetic force to cause some serious damage to an aircraft. Aircraft are not tanks, this is not an A-10. They are susceptible to damage from small arms fire. They are a multi role jet including close air support but are not built like an A-10 and might be susceptible to small arms especially something as large as .50 cal. If you're referring to the pings, watch some videos with cameras around targets getting hit like car frames or washing machines. Hits are like pings. An airfarme is very rigid design with a connected structure. Although im sure the cockpit is loud, you likely have a known "normal" noise signature and when something smacks the frame of your aircraft at 2500 feet per second at 650grains your going to hear that ping resonate through the frame. Ping is probably exactly how it would be described. At 2500 feet, .50 velocity should still be around 1500fps (based on some quick research). If you mean it should results in parts flying off, well that completely depends on what gets hit, I'm sure there are spots that will just cause fly through impacts. The post says alerts starting showing up. If your expectation is hollywood fireball and flames, it's not always like that.
Great analysis. And you invoking the a-10 only just goes to show how ludicrously stupid it is anyone thinking the f-35 could just casually step into the CAS role
I agree, and the repeated attempts to get rid of the A-10 make no sense other than as an effort to weaken protection for our ground troops. I don't know of anything more effective in this role than the A-10, and the troops clearly love them. A-10s do the job.
EDIT: Below, an A-10 pilot making a case for moving the F/A-18E/Fs Super Hornets into the role now occupied by the A-10. He makes a good case, and his major concern in getting rid of the A-10 is a loss of the knowledge base required to use air power (piloting and support) to properly supply support to ground troops:
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/a-10-pilots-compelling-case-for-replacing-warthogs-with-super-hornets