Yes, I can see Poland re-acquiring those areas of Ukraine that were once part of Poland.
I recall reading that Pres. Putin will not object as long as the issue of NATO & NAZIS is addressed to Russia's satisfaction and the expanded Poland ensures that these lands do not pose a threat to Russia.
There’s hardly any Poles left in Ukraine anymore. If Poland took back their former land there they’d be annexing millions of Ukrainians, so unless they flee of their own volition, if Poland doesn’t want them, then time for ethnic cleansing
I think the history is that Ukrainians (a people, not a nationality) lived in that region of Poland (Galicia) originally. Similar to the inhabitants of Transylvania originally being in Austria-Hungary, not Romania.
Ukrainians, Belarusians and Rusyns are all descendants of the Ruthenians. Pre WW2, there were still a lot of Ukrainians in southeast Poland, but there were a lot more Poles in comparison. Re-annexation would’ve made sense back then, but nowadays I’m not sure it would work out well. Not sure if they even still have a claim to the land much. I’m sure that was all negotiated and settled at the end of the war. Poland got bits of Germany in compensation. Compare this with Japan’s Northern Territories they still have claims on despite no Japanese living there anymore.
But if we’re giving Poland a chunk of Ukraine then might as well give Zakarpattia Oblast to Hungary too, otherwise it would be a Ukrainian exclave with a significant population of Hungarians
It's only a war crime if you do it on purpose. It was probably a misfire or anti air missile that came down in polish territory. If he intentionally fired at poland to get NATO into the war that would be a war crime, but he'd practically have to prance around bragging he did that for it to be proven
There was no way it could have been a "misfire". Russian air attacks were coming from the south and south-east. Any intercepting missile would have had to been fired in that direction. The missile in question had to be fired in the direct opposite direction (north-west) to land in Poland.
MSM relies on people not knowing where anything is.
A misfire could mean some inadequately trained scrub punched in the wrong coordinates in the heat of the moment. But I also think the relative position of the defensive launch compared to the incoming missile matters more than the absolute position missiles are originating from.
Any anti-air missile launched from any Ukrainian battery that misses has to come down somewhere, so if any battery was firing towards Poland at a missile crossing over Ukraine (and missed) it could have come down there.
Placing the blame on Russia isn't a war crime. Missing with a missile isn't a war crime. Intentionally targeting noncombatants (or neutral nations) would be. But we dont actually have proof of that.
Surface-to-air missile engagements with large systems (not MANPADS) are frontal or near-frontal engagements. A tail chase is a rotten way to bring down a plane. The system is driven by computer, which is connected to the tracking radar---which is looking toward the direction of attack, not over its shoulder. About the only human control available is to select a target and commit to engage. No "punching in of coordinates." (I once worked on the propulsion and system [guidance] engineering for the U.S. ROLAND 2 anti-aircraft missile.)
The idea that it was an accidental shot is, frankly, ridiculous. Not helped by the Ukrainian initial attempt to declare it a Russian missile (disproven by the serial numbers found), and the feeble suggestion that it was a runaway. The Poles know better. They were keeping circumspect until it developed there was no benefit from it. It is interesting how the Poles announce themselves as Ukraine's best ally, but in all other respects they seem to despise Ukraine.
Well we dont know for sure that the missile hitting Poland was surface - to- air. If it was, that seems to defeat the "they did this on purpose" angle because I doubt you can hit anything on the ground accurately with missiles expecting radar lock on airborne targets.
It was identified as a Ukrainian surface-to-air missile by the wreckage and serial numbers. There was no way it could have gotten there except by launch azimuth selection.
Who said you needed to hit anything on the ground accurately in order to create an incident to frame the Russians? (Surface-to-Air missile systems have been repurposed to Surface-to-Surface, e.g., the Nike Hercules system by the South Koreans.)
If it lands in the woods where nobody sees it, that wont create much of a scandal now will it? The fact is any missile launch upwards towards poland has to come down somewhere, and the only places are NATO. It would be impossible to prove they hit Poland on purpose, and of course they would try to blame the russians no matter what the truth was. There is no way to prove it was deliberate without ukraine cooperating with an investigation and obviously they wont
Well, in fact it landed in farmland where it was seen and the wreckage photographed. The scandal has to do with the firing of weapons at a neighboring country who is a NATO member. Any missile launch is deliberate. Cars don't start up and drive themselves. Neither do missiles launch except by human control. The fact that it was a Ukrainian missile and they boldly lied to blame the Russians is a patent of deceit, which eliminates the possibility of innocent accident. The Poles are not stupid enough to not understand all this.
does that mean article 5 gets invoked as a non Nato country attacked a Nato country, meaning all Nato must declare war on Ukraine.
Poland is going to take west of the Ukraine. I don't know who said it but it seems stage is being set.
Yes, I can see Poland re-acquiring those areas of Ukraine that were once part of Poland. I recall reading that Pres. Putin will not object as long as the issue of NATO & NAZIS is addressed to Russia's satisfaction and the expanded Poland ensures that these lands do not pose a threat to Russia.
There’s hardly any Poles left in Ukraine anymore. If Poland took back their former land there they’d be annexing millions of Ukrainians, so unless they flee of their own volition, if Poland doesn’t want them, then time for ethnic cleansing
I think the history is that Ukrainians (a people, not a nationality) lived in that region of Poland (Galicia) originally. Similar to the inhabitants of Transylvania originally being in Austria-Hungary, not Romania.
Ukrainians, Belarusians and Rusyns are all descendants of the Ruthenians. Pre WW2, there were still a lot of Ukrainians in southeast Poland, but there were a lot more Poles in comparison. Re-annexation would’ve made sense back then, but nowadays I’m not sure it would work out well. Not sure if they even still have a claim to the land much. I’m sure that was all negotiated and settled at the end of the war. Poland got bits of Germany in compensation. Compare this with Japan’s Northern Territories they still have claims on despite no Japanese living there anymore.
But if we’re giving Poland a chunk of Ukraine then might as well give Zakarpattia Oblast to Hungary too, otherwise it would be a Ukrainian exclave with a significant population of Hungarians
So, a non-NATO country attacked a NATO country, will NATO respond accordingly ?
No, because their "Rules Based World Order" ignores Laws & Treaties and simply makes stuff up to support their Communist agenda.
Poland should insist that all NATO support for Ukraine is withdrawn.
Was that when Trump scheduled his big announcement and they were scared into trying to start WWIII?
Had to have been backed by NATO
Alright, lets invade ukraine, no one is allowed to warcrime but us!
Definition of a "War crime"?
Asking for a fren.
Taking a non-combatants life without trial or justification
Would this include accidents? Surely not. So deliberate taking of a non-combatant's life without trial or justification, I guess.
War crimes would only pertain in the case of war. Killing of civilians outside of war conditions would be something different.
Is that a BOOM??
Kind of old news. This was known within days of the event. It was circumstantially impossible for it to be a mistaken shot or a Russian missile.
It's only a war crime if you do it on purpose. It was probably a misfire or anti air missile that came down in polish territory. If he intentionally fired at poland to get NATO into the war that would be a war crime, but he'd practically have to prance around bragging he did that for it to be proven
There was no way it could have been a "misfire". Russian air attacks were coming from the south and south-east. Any intercepting missile would have had to been fired in that direction. The missile in question had to be fired in the direct opposite direction (north-west) to land in Poland.
MSM relies on people not knowing where anything is.
A misfire could mean some inadequately trained scrub punched in the wrong coordinates in the heat of the moment. But I also think the relative position of the defensive launch compared to the incoming missile matters more than the absolute position missiles are originating from. Any anti-air missile launched from any Ukrainian battery that misses has to come down somewhere, so if any battery was firing towards Poland at a missile crossing over Ukraine (and missed) it could have come down there.
Placing the blame on Russia isn't a war crime. Missing with a missile isn't a war crime. Intentionally targeting noncombatants (or neutral nations) would be. But we dont actually have proof of that.
Surface-to-air missile engagements with large systems (not MANPADS) are frontal or near-frontal engagements. A tail chase is a rotten way to bring down a plane. The system is driven by computer, which is connected to the tracking radar---which is looking toward the direction of attack, not over its shoulder. About the only human control available is to select a target and commit to engage. No "punching in of coordinates." (I once worked on the propulsion and system [guidance] engineering for the U.S. ROLAND 2 anti-aircraft missile.)
The idea that it was an accidental shot is, frankly, ridiculous. Not helped by the Ukrainian initial attempt to declare it a Russian missile (disproven by the serial numbers found), and the feeble suggestion that it was a runaway. The Poles know better. They were keeping circumspect until it developed there was no benefit from it. It is interesting how the Poles announce themselves as Ukraine's best ally, but in all other respects they seem to despise Ukraine.
Well we dont know for sure that the missile hitting Poland was surface - to- air. If it was, that seems to defeat the "they did this on purpose" angle because I doubt you can hit anything on the ground accurately with missiles expecting radar lock on airborne targets.
It was identified as a Ukrainian surface-to-air missile by the wreckage and serial numbers. There was no way it could have gotten there except by launch azimuth selection.
Who said you needed to hit anything on the ground accurately in order to create an incident to frame the Russians? (Surface-to-Air missile systems have been repurposed to Surface-to-Surface, e.g., the Nike Hercules system by the South Koreans.)
If it lands in the woods where nobody sees it, that wont create much of a scandal now will it? The fact is any missile launch upwards towards poland has to come down somewhere, and the only places are NATO. It would be impossible to prove they hit Poland on purpose, and of course they would try to blame the russians no matter what the truth was. There is no way to prove it was deliberate without ukraine cooperating with an investigation and obviously they wont
Well, in fact it landed in farmland where it was seen and the wreckage photographed. The scandal has to do with the firing of weapons at a neighboring country who is a NATO member. Any missile launch is deliberate. Cars don't start up and drive themselves. Neither do missiles launch except by human control. The fact that it was a Ukrainian missile and they boldly lied to blame the Russians is a patent of deceit, which eliminates the possibility of innocent accident. The Poles are not stupid enough to not understand all this.
You're the one who is apparently at odds with reality.