If Adam and Eve had fulfilled their responsibility and kept faith in the Commandment then the consequences of their actions would be unity with God, fulfillment of his purpose, and then ruling over the world in joy and peace as God's children. God's sovereignty would have been established. By Adam perfecting himself, God would come to dwell in Adam fully and partake in human society fully as the heavenly parent.
Because Adam failed, Jesus comes to fulfill the responsibility that Adam failed to complete.
The question of being able to execute (again, no pun) judgment hinges on our own capacity to represent God and execute our own responsibility. The non-violation of human responsibility is such a fundamental principle that God has worked without cease over millennia to rescue the world and bring humanity to the point where we can fulfill our responsibility so that by completion of that responsibility, true justice can prevail.
Think about it. None of us is a sinner. But does God or Jesus appear to us every second of the day and say, "Hey! you just sinned! Slap!" or "hey! You are thinking of sinning. I'll stop you!". No. And why not? Not simply because of 'free will', but because if we have no responsibility, then we have no free will. They will not interfere with OUR portion of responsibility. However, when we do set conditions and make choices and actions that fulfill our responsibility (related to belief, and action), even in some small way, then they will act to influence because they can do so without violating our responsibility.
The danger in executing 'justice' in our own way based on our own standards is the risk of slipping into a position where we violate the principle of responsibility, or ourselves, and others.
Who decides the guilt of someone that you accuse of being a pedo or a molester, or trafficker or whatever? The pinnacle of God's work (so far) to raise humanity to fulfill their responsibility has culminated (so far) in the trial by one's peers, as far as justice and the law are concerned.
I fully agree with you that the systems are out of whack, and that's because they have strayed so far from what they are originally designed to be.
But the ultimate solution will ONLY be found by more and more human beings fulfilling their responsibility as far as God sees it.
But if we step out and start mowing down people we are convinced are criminals, simply because we can and because we are so certain of our own judgments, then its really perilous territory. Because the moment we violate the principle of human responsibility, either by NOT being responsible for what we should be and for trying to be responsible for what we are not, then we compromise God's ability to guide, govern and be sovereign over us. And if he isn't then someone else is. To see how bad that gets, we need only look at history.
Long write out, if you made it to the end, congrats!
At the end of the day, although it falls short, the above is a rather broad description of why I think its important that law and order prevail, and that while it is painful and entails suffering, there are no quick solutions, like just rounding up 'pedos' (actually who I think is a pedo, really) and executing them.
If that was a viable solution, I think God would already have done it.
The wheels of justice grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly finely.
Thanks for writing such detail & clearly taking so much time & effort on this. I really do appreciate it and want to know what you (and others!) think.
I think by and large, like 95%++ we are on the same page on the bulk of our views / opinions on most of this stuff.
I think what's causing this discussion is the fact that it's written / text and hence ZERO tonality, body language, etc.
I do not - absolutely not - think "we" (whether society in general or whoever) should just go out & start killing people that "we" suspect (or even know) are criminals.
I do fully believe in "innocent until proven guilty" (now more than ever with Trump & J6 just to name a few!) and the overall process, and I believe that anyone accused of ANY crime should absolutely be entitled to a complete, thorough, and FAIR hearing.
That said;
We've definitely swung too far in a very wrong way, where our justice system no longer works, hardly at all.
I don't think we should go out & start shooting people we SUSPECT of crime, but I do think that the victims of any sort of crime should never be arrested nor hassled for defending themselves at the moment of the crime.
For example; if you walk in on someone abusing your child & you kill them; that's not murder & the only thing you should be given is a parade & cash reward.
The "justice" system today has been so grotesquely warped & distorted that the families of actual criminals can sue the victims for "civil rights / emotional distress" and other utter clown world bullshit.
That's the sort of stuff that drives me insane, as I think it does most people.
I'll try to follow up with more later, but that's what I've got to start...
I think by and large, like 95%++ we are on the same page on the bulk of our views / opinions on most of this stuff.
Probably so. Maybe 90%?
I think what's causing this discussion is the fact that it's written / text and hence ZERO tonality, body language, etc.
I don't know that this is what is causing the discussion, but I certainly think that written / text communications leaves out many critical aspects of communication, such as those you have cited.
I'm sure we would get to a much quickly and closer understanding of each other if we were able to meet and talk in person.
I do not - absolutely not - think "we" (whether society in general or whoever) should just go out & start killing people that "we" suspect (or even know) are criminals.
Maybe some of your text has been deliberate hyperbole, to emphasize what emotions the topic stirs up? In any case, it's clear that there are real and serious problems (virtually critical problems) in all sorts of systems, and the legal field most definitely so.
FWIW, I do believe in the fundamental goodness & decency of mankind. I believe that about 90% of humans on this planet are good, kind, decent "normal" people, irrespective of who they are; what they believe, race / religion; etc.
I believe that our American form of government, Constitution; all our founding documents are the pinnacle of human government & existence. It is certainly imperfect, but the best system of government that has yet been devised by man.
More than anything, I think we need a clean sweep / reset. (Literally a "Great Reset" just in a way the globalists would hate).
We need to completely burn down ~90%+ of the government as it exists, and rebuild in a manner that's consistent with the Constitution.
Maybe some of your text has been deliberate hyperbole, to emphasize what emotions the topic stirs up? In any case, it's clear that there are real and serious problems (virtually critical problems) in all sorts of systems, and the legal field most definitely so.
Thanks for the response!!!!
Yes, for sure... I try to analogize but sometimes it (obviously) fails. And yes, I'm also generalizing & being a little hyperbolic...obviously not helping my case, LOL.
If Adam and Eve had fulfilled their responsibility and kept faith in the Commandment then the consequences of their actions would be unity with God, fulfillment of his purpose, and then ruling over the world in joy and peace as God's children. God's sovereignty would have been established. By Adam perfecting himself, God would come to dwell in Adam fully and partake in human society fully as the heavenly parent.
Because Adam failed, Jesus comes to fulfill the responsibility that Adam failed to complete.
The question of being able to execute (again, no pun) judgment hinges on our own capacity to represent God and execute our own responsibility. The non-violation of human responsibility is such a fundamental principle that God has worked without cease over millennia to rescue the world and bring humanity to the point where we can fulfill our responsibility so that by completion of that responsibility, true justice can prevail.
Think about it. None of us is a sinner. But does God or Jesus appear to us every second of the day and say, "Hey! you just sinned! Slap!" or "hey! You are thinking of sinning. I'll stop you!". No. And why not? Not simply because of 'free will', but because if we have no responsibility, then we have no free will. They will not interfere with OUR portion of responsibility. However, when we do set conditions and make choices and actions that fulfill our responsibility (related to belief, and action), even in some small way, then they will act to influence because they can do so without violating our responsibility.
The danger in executing 'justice' in our own way based on our own standards is the risk of slipping into a position where we violate the principle of responsibility, or ourselves, and others.
Who decides the guilt of someone that you accuse of being a pedo or a molester, or trafficker or whatever? The pinnacle of God's work (so far) to raise humanity to fulfill their responsibility has culminated (so far) in the trial by one's peers, as far as justice and the law are concerned.
I fully agree with you that the systems are out of whack, and that's because they have strayed so far from what they are originally designed to be.
But the ultimate solution will ONLY be found by more and more human beings fulfilling their responsibility as far as God sees it.
But if we step out and start mowing down people we are convinced are criminals, simply because we can and because we are so certain of our own judgments, then its really perilous territory. Because the moment we violate the principle of human responsibility, either by NOT being responsible for what we should be and for trying to be responsible for what we are not, then we compromise God's ability to guide, govern and be sovereign over us. And if he isn't then someone else is. To see how bad that gets, we need only look at history.
Long write out, if you made it to the end, congrats!
At the end of the day, although it falls short, the above is a rather broad description of why I think its important that law and order prevail, and that while it is painful and entails suffering, there are no quick solutions, like just rounding up 'pedos' (actually who I think is a pedo, really) and executing them.
If that was a viable solution, I think God would already have done it.
The wheels of justice grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly finely.
Anyway, a few thoughts.
OK so real quick because I gotta head out.....
Thanks for writing such detail & clearly taking so much time & effort on this. I really do appreciate it and want to know what you (and others!) think.
I think by and large, like 95%++ we are on the same page on the bulk of our views / opinions on most of this stuff.
I think what's causing this discussion is the fact that it's written / text and hence ZERO tonality, body language, etc.
I do not - absolutely not - think "we" (whether society in general or whoever) should just go out & start killing people that "we" suspect (or even know) are criminals.
I do fully believe in "innocent until proven guilty" (now more than ever with Trump & J6 just to name a few!) and the overall process, and I believe that anyone accused of ANY crime should absolutely be entitled to a complete, thorough, and FAIR hearing.
That said; We've definitely swung too far in a very wrong way, where our justice system no longer works, hardly at all.
I don't think we should go out & start shooting people we SUSPECT of crime, but I do think that the victims of any sort of crime should never be arrested nor hassled for defending themselves at the moment of the crime.
For example; if you walk in on someone abusing your child & you kill them; that's not murder & the only thing you should be given is a parade & cash reward.
The "justice" system today has been so grotesquely warped & distorted that the families of actual criminals can sue the victims for "civil rights / emotional distress" and other utter clown world bullshit.
That's the sort of stuff that drives me insane, as I think it does most people.
I'll try to follow up with more later, but that's what I've got to start...
Probably so. Maybe 90%?
I don't know that this is what is causing the discussion, but I certainly think that written / text communications leaves out many critical aspects of communication, such as those you have cited.
I'm sure we would get to a much quickly and closer understanding of each other if we were able to meet and talk in person.
Maybe some of your text has been deliberate hyperbole, to emphasize what emotions the topic stirs up? In any case, it's clear that there are real and serious problems (virtually critical problems) in all sorts of systems, and the legal field most definitely so.
Thanks for the response!!!!
Oh one final thing I wanted to add;
FWIW, I do believe in the fundamental goodness & decency of mankind. I believe that about 90% of humans on this planet are good, kind, decent "normal" people, irrespective of who they are; what they believe, race / religion; etc.
I believe that our American form of government, Constitution; all our founding documents are the pinnacle of human government & existence. It is certainly imperfect, but the best system of government that has yet been devised by man.
More than anything, I think we need a clean sweep / reset. (Literally a "Great Reset" just in a way the globalists would hate).
We need to completely burn down ~90%+ of the government as it exists, and rebuild in a manner that's consistent with the Constitution.
Again I agree with you. :-)
Thanks for the response!!!!
Yes, for sure... I try to analogize but sometimes it (obviously) fails. And yes, I'm also generalizing & being a little hyperbolic...obviously not helping my case, LOL.
Anyway, Thanks for the discussion my friend.