Trump in Florida federal court today as his lawyers argue a motion to dismiss the first 32 counts of Florida....basically every charge about retaining documents.
The main thing to discuss is the Presidential Records Act.
Trump's lawyers boldly argued that the PRA gave Trump “virtually unreviewable Article II executive authority to designate the records as personal when, as alleged in the Superseding Indictment, he ’caused’ the materials to be transported out of the White House while he was still in office.”
Smith has countered by saying Trump simply had no such unilateral authority under the PRA.
But Charge 19 deals with Q clearance.
In their February motion to dismiss on grounds of unconstitutional vagueness, Trump lawyers argued the nineteenth willful retention of national defense information count, relating to an “Undated document concerning nuclear weaponry of the United States,” could not stand. They said the special counsel handed them Department of Energy records “indicating that President Trump maintained the ‘Q’ clearance that is relevant to the document charged.”
In his opposition, Smith called the “Q clearance” argument meritless because discovery actually shows the “Q clearance” went away “as a matter of law” when Joe Biden was inaugurated as president.
One of the motions was denied
Judge Cannon has DENIED trump's motion to dismiss counts 1-32 on "constitutional vagueness
https://t.co/jHUTVu7Ex9
The judge basically denied without prejudice, dismissing the counts and said this is more like something you could raise that trial with jury instructions.
No mention at all was made of count 19 or Q clearance. It It could be that will be in another ruling.
She also has to rule on the presidential records act argument.
This is awesome, especially good to share with those "Q clearance is fake" types.
I had a Q clearance when I worked at the NRC. It is not fake. It is also not a magical "the highest" clearance any more than the Top Secret clearance - they are equivalent. One is DoD and one is DoE. In fact the DoD is faster at getting you cleared so many times the DoE will put you in for a DoD Top Secret and then grant you a Q once you receive the TS. They did that for me.
Also - I don't understand what his lawyers were trying to do. Having any clearance doesn't mean you can have classified at home. They tried to argue that he was cleared so it is ok. No - that is illegal. If they instead argued that he declassified it, or was authorized under the PRA then that would be different. The argument that he had a clearance was a crappy argument. I don't know what their angle was, but if they didn't understand that their argument was completely false then Trump needs FAR better lawyers.
Charleton Heston had Q clearance. The military wikis talk about Q clearance.
GSA and FBI had visited Mar-A-Lago. If they determined that the room where the records were stored met SCIF guidelines of DCID 6/9 - cameras, security response time, locks, walls, dielectric decouplings, etc. - then he would be allowed to retain classified. And the rules may be different for former presidents.
Agreed, but that wasn't what the lawyers used in their 2 motions. The only reason I can see them using those 2 motions is if they needed to stall while waiting on something else. They were always destined to fail and the lawyers had to know that.
JUST so EVERYONE knows...The Q Clearance has CERTAIN Qualifications of when it is to be IN-ACTED AND DE-ACTIVATED...Reason why: The Air Craft needs to be SCIF Certified ALONG with the Security Precautions a M-a-L!!!!!!!
AND the Special Council is LYING and I do think that PDJT Attorney's will be pointing this out quite shortly...One cannot have ONE without the OTHER...
I'm just waiting for the SC to toss this lil' Firecracker and then PDJT's Attorney LITES HIS ASS UP!!!!!!!
NOTE: if the documents (SCIF RELATED) are kept on the plane en-router to MAL then the documents will be (SCIF RELATED) WHEN THE PLANE LANDS...the Classification CAN NOT change en-route to the final destination...
And that is where the SC's argument falls completely...HE has to show that the documents were not covered by Q Clearance and HE must show WHO RESCINDED THAT Q CLEARANCE...
OHHHH MY...😶😶😶😶😶😶😶😶😶
I'm not following you here. Can you elaborate?
When the AF1 was used or President Trump's Plane used...the SECURE COMPARTMENT INFORMATION FACILITY MUST ALSO BE CERTIFIED TO THE SAME STANDARD AS TOO WHAT WAS IN THE WHITE HOUSE...This would ALSO INCLUDE MAR-A-LOGO!!! THE CLASSIFICATION CANNOT CHANGE EN ROUTE TO THE FINAL DESTINATION SINCE HE IS A FORMER PRESIDENT AND STILL HOLDS HIS Q-CLEARANCE!!!
This is what Smith is alleging and that is where the confusion is coming...PDJT's security Clearance MAY HAVE BEEN PULLED BY SMITH BEFORE HE GOT TO MAR-A-LOGO...if it was pulled then Smith is the ONE on the HOT SEAT NOT President Trump!!!
If you still have questions just respond with you're questions and I will try to answer...
NOTE: Most people DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW CLEARANCES ARE GIVEN or people coming OFF the list for Clearances and this is where the obfuscation by the Special Council is coming into play...
OK there's several things going on here.
SCIF STUFF
The documents should have never been on Trump's plane. Trump's plane would have never have had a SCIF. While president he would have used AF1.
This is correct. However it's already been addressed. While he was president, there was a SCIF at Mar a Lago, but it was removed.
In fact, Trump's lawyers asked that a SCIF be reinstalled so they could review evidence at Mar a Lago. https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/4146042-trump-seeks-to-reestablish-scif-at-mar-a-lago-to-review-classified-evidence/
The judge rejected this https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23973412-protective-order-mal?responsive=1&title=1
And Trump had to go to a SCIF at the federal court complex in Miami to view the evidence in the case.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-scheduled-visit-secure-facility-view-evidence-classified/story?id=104515489
They even had a closed hearing in a SCIF last month https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-expected-attend-hearing-classified-docs-case-held/story?id=107115581
Clearance Stuff
The Q clearance only applies to one document, the one in charge 19. Even if he still holds Q clearance, it would affect the other charges.
Smith doesn't have authority to pull anyone's clearance and I don't think he is claiming that. See page 24
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24467568/smith-response-to-trump-unconstitutional-vagueness-arg.pdf
This part is interesting because I just heard unlike most other folks with security clearances. Presidents are not read into their clearance or read out of their clearance.
That is a supposition, right there. How do you know that Trump Force 1 does not have a "SCIF"?
What does a President have to do to declassify documents? The general idea is that Obama took classified docs to his library. When he did so, WHILE in office (till jan.20 noon) would that mean these docs he took, where declassified by the sheer act of taking them?
This is an absolute power, isn't it? In the past, Trump has directed Barr to declassify the JFK files. Barr goes through with review by lower officials. But was that really necessary? When Trump says: these files are now declassed ....Are they declassed? Are they declassed even when the lower officials did not have their say and did not alter the signs on the documents themselves? Who' s power is tied to whom? Is the Presidents Power tied to the lower officials or is it the other way around?
The Deeps State tries to argue process. They argue that a doc can only be declassed IF and WHEN lower officials have had their say and there is consensus of such a doc being declassed by them. They argue the process and their part in it, is the absolute power of declass.
Interestingly, Q spent many posts pointing to the issue of declass. Remember the meme of nov.2018: DECLASS coming?
We are now in the thick of it.
SAM 28000 and SAM 29000 are technically SCIFs as they are EMP hardened and decoupled when in the air. That said, the conference room on those air frames is fully TEMPEST certified and rated for SCI processing.
Because as President Trump would always fly via Air Force One. Even when he did campaign rallies he used Air Force 1. AF1 has a SCIF.
I see no reason a SCIF would ever be installed on a private plane
No, these documents were not declassified.
The documents in presidential libraries are maintained by the national archives. The National Archives routinely deals with classified information. There is a classified reading room at the national archive in College Park, Maryland.
The documents for the Obama library and the documents for the Trump library are maintained by the national archives.
There are two parts to presidential libraries. One is the maintenance of the documents and this is done by NARA. The other is the museum piece which is done by a private foundation.
Trump did not set up a museum piece but there is a Trump presidential library. The files are maintained at the national archives in Maryland. For presidents who have set up museums, their documents are maintained at National archive facilities close to the museum.
Info on the Trump presidential library can be found here. https://www.trumplibrary.gov/
Here's info on how researchers with security clearances can go to the national archives and view classified information. https://www.archives.gov/records-mgmt/accessioning/research
hmmm, it seems we are about to find out....
AF-1 is a designation. Not a plane.
Smith does not have the ability to adjudicate or revoke a clearance. All of that would be done through the cognizant issuing authority. In this case DoE.
Not true. Classified documents can be transported without being in a SCIF. They have to be packaged properly and carried by an authorized courier. You can mail SECRET through USPS if done properly. You just cannot process - verbally discuss, write, or use a computer - in a non-SCIF environment.
Here's Trump's motion that mentions Q clearance
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67490070/398/united-states-v-trump/
Count 19 Must Be Dismissed Because President Trump Maintained The Required Security Clearance
Trump's lawyers asked the judge to hold a hearing on Trump's Q clearance.
Me personally, I don't understand what the problem is since Kash said President Trump had declassified all these documents when he was President. He had the power and he did it. The documents that Biden had were NOT declassified nor are the documents Obummer took from office declassified. Wouldn't this make all these arguments and charges mute?
He basically has to prove that he did, in fact, do it.
Some documents did get declassified before he left office, but he has to show that these specific documents were declassified.
You seem to be making very compelling arguments but so does your counterpart. It seems you both have a history or career or intimate knowledge of how this all works but is it impossible for either of you to prove one is correct and the other is wrong regarding Trump, his docs, and his case altogether?
I'm no lawyer. Just a news junkie and good researcher.
Is there a standard or protocol that can be documented and shown both to the public and to the courts and anyone else that the specific documents/records were declassified? Or are we always forced to speculate on this forum about this subject with zero way to provide what we post is true or untrue regarding DJT’s docs?
There are "DOCUMENTS" that are signed but it is by INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE DEEMED CLEARED FOR RECEIVING/TRANSMITTING DOCUMENTS...
IF the documents being passed and/or receiving then the individual(s) also NEED "Q clearance"...
I KNOW this is redundant but it is important: NO ONE without a Q Clearance can handle Q Clearance Documents...
I am not trying to confuse but some will question the "what if" situation and I'm just taking that off the list...
Much appreciated on your insights 🐸
It's an interesting question.
The question of if these documents are classified has already been raised before several judges and the grand jury.
One judge said I have evidence that these documents are classified.
The evidence is prima facie evidence. Which means by looking at the evidence I see it has a top secret classified cover sheet and it is stamped classified. On the face of it I can tell this is a classified document. So to counter that you would actually have to present testimony or evidence to prove otherwise.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/prima_facie
just as classified documents are are stamped showing what level of classification they have when documents are declassified for release they are restamped and cleared. It should clearly say it's a declassified document. You also have to tell all the original agency that created them at the document is declassified. How much of that is required by law? I don't know.
TDW would have a meltdown reading this title XD