Why do you think you can make such a determination personally? Why do you believe that this isn't simply evidence you worship your own mind instead of an external, objective God?
If you can't comprehend the 'why' questions, maybe you shouldn't be telling people they have little heads.
This 'why' in particular is the most fundamental question that separates Catholicism from Protestantism. It's the single most important question to answer. If you don't have an answer, you don't have a real reason for being sure in your belief regarding Protestantism vs Catholicism.
Personally, my answer is quite clear: If I went back to being a Protestant, it'd be me worshiping my own mind over any external, objective truth.
Complete misunderstanding of what Christ taught about the church. If Jesus walked into "St. Peter's Basilica" what would he say, "Oh my good and faithful servents, thank you for this!"??
edit- ok downvoters what do you think Jesus would say if he walked up in there?
...He'd appreciate beauty like all right-minded people do
Of course. I was illustrating a point of priority and drawing a contrast. Think of the scripture where Christ chastizes the religious leaders, using the parable about the inside and outside of a cup in Luke 11:39.
What I don't think He'd do is walk in and start telling everyone that they're "doing it wrong" for making beautiful things in His name.
😂 No, he wouldn't. He'd tell them that they're doing it wrong for a myriad of other, more important reasons, just as He did during His earthly ministry!
I also think you worship your own mind over an external, objective God
Well you certainly have the right to think that of me and I wish that I could've presented myself better than for you to conclude it. For what it's worth, a brief bit about my walk of faith:
I was born again when I first heard the Gospel, and I mean really heard it, not the usual confusing wash of dogma I had heard growing up. The immediate words that spilled out of my mouth were "That's who Jesus is?!", followed by a period of the most intense crying (joyous) I had ever experienced. I quite literally learned "who Jesus was" and what it meant, what He did, and that I didn't have to worry about going to hell anymore because He saved me, I just didn't KNOW it, despite being inundated with the aformentioned wash of dogmas. None of that stuff ever really made any sense at all to me, and the concept of the next life terrified me.
What took place over the following years was an almost rabid quest for more. I was absolutely engrossed. I looked here, there, and everywhere for more information about Jesus, Christianity, prophecy, do's and don'ts, which church to go to, which ones to avoid, what different verses and words meant, the identities of various people in scripture and chronologies, and on and on. I watched several televangelists faithfully every day. I was consumed with all things Christianity, and was trying to find a place for myself in it. I was also immediately and totally repulsed by anything worldly or immoral. I couldn't watch a tv show to save my life unless it was a sermon or movie about Jesus. This aspect has relaxed greatly as I better understood God's grace, but that's another topic entirely.
I hadn't really grasped the concept of misinfo / disinfo within what I'll loosely call 'Christendom'. It would be a few more years, and after being consistantly confused and left with holes in my understanding by the various preachers I listened to, as well as the local churches I visited, that I begun to seriously question the denominations and conflicting views on what it means to be a Christian and on doctrinal issues. This opened a door I have yet to satisfactorily consider closed as I am still honing in on many fronts.
The relevent front to our apparent disagreement is the identity of the Catholic church. I presume you to believe that it's Christ's true church, while I am confident in it being MYSTERY BABYLON, MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS IN THE EARTH, from Rev. 17:5. I did not adopt this view based on a few zealous anti-Catholics, but in my ongoing studies into Daniel, the Olivet Discourse, and Revelation, as well as secular exposès and historical accounts regarding that church, I cannot fathom another candidate for that title on earth. (If you can, I'd be happy to hear you out). Also, please note that I consider her many "daughters" in my stance and do not seek to exclude them. There are no doubt plenty of Protestant institutions, as well as the various secret societies around the world, who are guilty of being "partakers of her sins", and will "receive ... of her plagues" (Rev. 18:4) and so any genuine believers within those organizations should "come out of her ...". Likewise, I consider the numerous genuine believers who are Catholics, and I have the same desire for them as I do the non-Catholic believers in The Lord Jesus Christ. I will admit, this nuanced view has taken me some time to arrive at, and I am likely guilty of over-generalizing in my zeal to expose what I find to be insititutions of wickedness cloaked in Christian clothing. For this I apologize and pray that any loss suffered to the faith of any brother or sister in Christ be restored 7-fold and that the Lord would perfectly rebuke me in my conscience.
Overall I argue that MYSTERY BABYLON has been a secret continuation and ultimate consummation (in the RCC institution) of satanic human control, spanning all the way back to the Tower of Babel. I am almost to the point of identifying organized religion ITSELF as a failed endeavor, as it all seems to be networked together into one giant satanic syndicate at the top (Rome & Israel to lesser degree), but due to the organizational structures of the very first churches I can't conclude this yet. IF those churches were set up in less-than-ideal ways, it wasn't made clear in the NT, else God simply worked with what was, despite it being inherently flawed. Nevertheless the template seems to be completely failing at the present time, but that's anecdoctal and somewhat irrelivent to the discussion for now. I will say that, at the very least, the concept of an authoritative heirarchy which encompasses anything beyond a single, local church, seems QUITE susceptable to satanic subversion, and perhaps should be done away with completely, though this would obviously up-end the entire world, so I don't really know how it could be done.
And for the record, I didn't downvote you.
I hate when that happens. Kek
Having a chat with someone you disagree with and some ghost comes in and downdoots it and now it looks like you're being petty 😆
o7 fren, I'm used to the ghost downdoots. At least you're willing to discuss this stuff
Synagogue of Satan...while I do believe there are saved Catholics out there I do believe the Catholic Church as a whole are wolves in Sheep's clothing (for many reasons which would be an entire thread). Their sole purpose is to distort the truth and misguide believers from the true path.
There are still good men and women but the teachings of the Catholic Church are not in line with what is presented in His word.
100% look at Mar Mari Emmanuel as well as Vigano. The pope is all about power and control & everything else that is in direct contradiction of what the church should stand for. Amen
Agree, Most Catholics are so weak in understanding and the practice of their own religion that if they have Christ in their heart they are probably on the right side of things.
I can't judge the ignorant because in my own way I am not 100% right with God either. I put my faith in Jesus for the forgiveness of my own ignorance and failing as well.
Right...as none of us ever are. We will never be perfect but we still continue to run the race. But relying on some to intercede for you when we can simply pray makes no sense to me a long with all the ritual, power structure etc.
There are good Catholics out there; but again the foundation of Catholicism in my opinion is in direct conflict with what is actually in His word.
Our final authority on all matters must always be the Bible; not man's interpretation of what it says or personal beliefs.
Blaspheming Christ's perfect Church isn't a very virtuous thing to do...
Based on this:
The Vatican/Catholic Church hasn't met this standard as long as I can remember.
Exactly
Why do you think you can make such a determination personally? Why do you believe that this isn't simply evidence you worship your own mind instead of an external, objective God?
Why do you exist?
How do you know you are not a figment of your own imagination?
Why do you have an opinion? Why do I have an opinion?
Sheesh.
If you can't comprehend the 'why' questions, maybe you shouldn't be telling people they have little heads.
This 'why' in particular is the most fundamental question that separates Catholicism from Protestantism. It's the single most important question to answer. If you don't have an answer, you don't have a real reason for being sure in your belief regarding Protestantism vs Catholicism.
Personally, my answer is quite clear: If I went back to being a Protestant, it'd be me worshiping my own mind over any external, objective truth.
Never has, never can, and so never will.
Complete misunderstanding of what Christ taught about the church. If Jesus walked into "St. Peter's Basilica" what would he say, "Oh my good and faithful servents, thank you for this!"??
edit- ok downvoters what do you think Jesus would say if he walked up in there?
I think that if Christ is fully man, He'd appreciate beauty like all right-minded people do.
I also think that He'd prioritize greater virtues over beauty if need be, and offer correction where He sees error.
What I don't think He'd do is walk in and start telling everyone that they're "doing it wrong" for making beautiful things in His name.
I also think you worship your own mind over an external, objective God.
And for the record, I didn't downvote you.
Of course. I was illustrating a point of priority and drawing a contrast. Think of the scripture where Christ chastizes the religious leaders, using the parable about the inside and outside of a cup in Luke 11:39.
😂 No, he wouldn't. He'd tell them that they're doing it wrong for a myriad of other, more important reasons, just as He did during His earthly ministry!
Well you certainly have the right to think that of me and I wish that I could've presented myself better than for you to conclude it. For what it's worth, a brief bit about my walk of faith:
I was born again when I first heard the Gospel, and I mean really heard it, not the usual confusing wash of dogma I had heard growing up. The immediate words that spilled out of my mouth were "That's who Jesus is?!", followed by a period of the most intense crying (joyous) I had ever experienced. I quite literally learned "who Jesus was" and what it meant, what He did, and that I didn't have to worry about going to hell anymore because He saved me, I just didn't KNOW it, despite being inundated with the aformentioned wash of dogmas. None of that stuff ever really made any sense at all to me, and the concept of the next life terrified me.
What took place over the following years was an almost rabid quest for more. I was absolutely engrossed. I looked here, there, and everywhere for more information about Jesus, Christianity, prophecy, do's and don'ts, which church to go to, which ones to avoid, what different verses and words meant, the identities of various people in scripture and chronologies, and on and on. I watched several televangelists faithfully every day. I was consumed with all things Christianity, and was trying to find a place for myself in it. I was also immediately and totally repulsed by anything worldly or immoral. I couldn't watch a tv show to save my life unless it was a sermon or movie about Jesus. This aspect has relaxed greatly as I better understood God's grace, but that's another topic entirely.
I hadn't really grasped the concept of misinfo / disinfo within what I'll loosely call 'Christendom'. It would be a few more years, and after being consistantly confused and left with holes in my understanding by the various preachers I listened to, as well as the local churches I visited, that I begun to seriously question the denominations and conflicting views on what it means to be a Christian and on doctrinal issues. This opened a door I have yet to satisfactorily consider closed as I am still honing in on many fronts.
The relevent front to our apparent disagreement is the identity of the Catholic church. I presume you to believe that it's Christ's true church, while I am confident in it being MYSTERY BABYLON, MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS IN THE EARTH, from Rev. 17:5. I did not adopt this view based on a few zealous anti-Catholics, but in my ongoing studies into Daniel, the Olivet Discourse, and Revelation, as well as secular exposès and historical accounts regarding that church, I cannot fathom another candidate for that title on earth. (If you can, I'd be happy to hear you out). Also, please note that I consider her many "daughters" in my stance and do not seek to exclude them. There are no doubt plenty of Protestant institutions, as well as the various secret societies around the world, who are guilty of being "partakers of her sins", and will "receive ... of her plagues" (Rev. 18:4) and so any genuine believers within those organizations should "come out of her ...". Likewise, I consider the numerous genuine believers who are Catholics, and I have the same desire for them as I do the non-Catholic believers in The Lord Jesus Christ. I will admit, this nuanced view has taken me some time to arrive at, and I am likely guilty of over-generalizing in my zeal to expose what I find to be insititutions of wickedness cloaked in Christian clothing. For this I apologize and pray that any loss suffered to the faith of any brother or sister in Christ be restored 7-fold and that the Lord would perfectly rebuke me in my conscience.
Overall I argue that MYSTERY BABYLON has been a secret continuation and ultimate consummation (in the RCC institution) of satanic human control, spanning all the way back to the Tower of Babel. I am almost to the point of identifying organized religion ITSELF as a failed endeavor, as it all seems to be networked together into one giant satanic syndicate at the top (Rome & Israel to lesser degree), but due to the organizational structures of the very first churches I can't conclude this yet. IF those churches were set up in less-than-ideal ways, it wasn't made clear in the NT, else God simply worked with what was, despite it being inherently flawed. Nevertheless the template seems to be completely failing at the present time, but that's anecdoctal and somewhat irrelivent to the discussion for now. I will say that, at the very least, the concept of an authoritative heirarchy which encompasses anything beyond a single, local church, seems QUITE susceptable to satanic subversion, and perhaps should be done away with completely, though this would obviously up-end the entire world, so I don't really know how it could be done.
I hate when that happens. Kek
Having a chat with someone you disagree with and some ghost comes in and downdoots it and now it looks like you're being petty 😆
o7 fren, I'm used to the ghost downdoots. At least you're willing to discuss this stuff
the external sky daddy you are speaking of doesn't exist, dear brother
I hate to be the bearer of bad news
And yet I joyously bring you this Good News.
If the church is perfect, then why did Christ scold 5 of the 7 churches in Revelation?
Synagogue of Satan...while I do believe there are saved Catholics out there I do believe the Catholic Church as a whole are wolves in Sheep's clothing (for many reasons which would be an entire thread). Their sole purpose is to distort the truth and misguide believers from the true path. There are still good men and women but the teachings of the Catholic Church are not in line with what is presented in His word.
I think you are correct. I also think, if your managing to upset the Pope and be excommunicated, you are probably doing something right
Jesus overturning the tables in the temple and enraging the entire priest and banking class comes to mind
100% look at Mar Mari Emmanuel as well as Vigano. The pope is all about power and control & everything else that is in direct contradiction of what the church should stand for. Amen
According to you.
I think that if you commit schism and then you get excommunicated for schism, that justice has been done.
Not that it exactly matters. Schismatics are excommunicated whether or not the Pope officially recognizes it.
the catholic church is very corrupt brother. Very little of what remains of it has anything to do with the teachings or way of Christ.
Agree, Most Catholics are so weak in understanding and the practice of their own religion that if they have Christ in their heart they are probably on the right side of things.
I can't judge the ignorant because in my own way I am not 100% right with God either. I put my faith in Jesus for the forgiveness of my own ignorance and failing as well.
Right...as none of us ever are. We will never be perfect but we still continue to run the race. But relying on some to intercede for you when we can simply pray makes no sense to me a long with all the ritual, power structure etc.
There are good Catholics out there; but again the foundation of Catholicism in my opinion is in direct conflict with what is actually in His word.
Our final authority on all matters must always be the Bible; not man's interpretation of what it says or personal beliefs.
You mean your personal interpretation of the Bible.
Nothing Godly about that, and it's certainly not in the Bible. You only believe it because Martin Luther thought it up on the toilet.