I don't buy the multiverse idea (and if I did, I wouldn't buy THIS idea that "your consciousness flees your body just before you die and inhabits one of 'your' bodies in another universe" -- what happens to the soul of THAT body, or are all the infinite number of bodies in the infinite number of universes just zombies until YOUR soul -- you being apparently the only "REAL" version of you -- jumps into some other schmuck's body? And as the centuries roll by, how is it that a copy of your body is still around to take over?).
There is ANOTHER quantum-based idea about mortality that some of us might be interested in, although I have trouble with it because it lacks any visible mechanism for memory retention -- certain types of brain damage can erase memories because memory is stored in the physical brain; if the immaterial soul had a way to store memories, that wouldn't be an issue.
The theory I'm discussing is best described by Kastrup and basically consists of these ideas:
Consciousness is primary; the physical is secondary. Quantum wave theory, which states that elementary particles, such as light and electrons, are nodes (or call it what you will) on the probability waves that carry the particles; see the Double-Slit experiment for details proving that particles are waves of probability -- which Kastrup sees as emanations of the universal consciousness -- until they are observed (which has a specialized meaning broader than the common one).
The physical brain is constantly, iteratively self-reflective and this causes a small amount of the universal consciousness to be captured and dissociated from the whole, much as in multiple personality disorder where one conscious personality is isolated from the others. The result is a person's soul, which does something the glob-of-matter-brain cannot do on its own: EXPERIENCE what happens in the brain and body and exert free will (possible due to quantum uncertainty and more).
After death, including after a temporary death (e.g., someone "brought back from the dead" via an EMT's revival efforts or whatever), the soul re-merges with the Universal Consciousness.
What I DON'T see is any method to take one's memories with the soul; without the physical brain, there isn't any mechanism for that in the theory (unless I've missed something).
Of course, that doesn't mean there ISN'T such a mechanism; this is, after all, just a theory and while it seems well supported in a number of ways I don't think of it as any more than a sketch. I like it, though.
I believe memories are written into the fabric of things. Like a cosmic blockchain. We exist within this fabric and theoretically could access any of it. Psychics, remote viewing, all of that stuff, is just being done by people with an ability to tap into this information.
I like that idea, and have wondered if something like that might exist. It would allow for actual "survival after death", perhaps -- IF it included the survival of the personality and memories together in a cohesive sub-entity instead of being smeared out among the entire universe. Or maybe the "entire universe" can isolate and make use of those memories and personality patterns of "you", sort of reconstituting you as needed or wanted.
Even simple biology is insanely complex and we are STILL learning about forces, mechanisms, etc that help even single cells function; I doubt very much that human minds can fully comprehend the nature of the whole damn universe.
What I DON'T see is any method to take one's memories with the soul; without the physical brain, there isn't any mechanism for that in the theory (unless I've missed something).
That is such a great point u/Narg and I'm glad you brought that up because John Titor actually talked about it specifically on two separate occasions:
Jan 26th, 2001:
"Since the existence of multiple universes is a reality from my viewpoint, please allow me to disclose an idea we toss around a bit in 2036. Since all possibilities, outcomes and events are occurring and exist simultaneously; it would mean there are multiple universes out there where “you” are living a day behind and a day ahead of the “you” on this universe.
There are some who believe that memory is some sort of information transfer or communication with the “yous” in the past, across worldlines or universes. Although this is seemingly quite ridiculous, if you think that could be true, then physics tells us that the same information transfer from our future selves on other worldlines is not only possible but certain. Could it be that fantasy or “what if” scenarios are actually future memory from an alternate “us” on a future worldline?"
Feb 2nd, 2001:
"There is also an area of thought that maintains all of the “yous” out there will make up the “you” that eventually returns to God. In that manner, it is frustrating to know that you are capable of and acting on all of the thoughts and ideas you have regardless of what the “you” hear is doing. How good or evil do you think you can be?
There is even an idea (supported in physics apparently but I have a hard time with this one) that there is some sort of communication going on between all of the “yous” that are out there. Some people think that memories, intuition and conscious are actually attempts by one version of “you” to talk to another."
The idea that everything possible becomes real is at the core of the multiverse idea, and it DOES solve a lot of interesting problems. It may be that we cannot comprehend the full nature of "real" -- the multiverse idea has adherents and opponents among physicists, as you know -- but as I said the idea just doesn't work for me. Then again, perhaps another version of me in another 'verse has other ideas . . .
Unless the idea that our brains are more like a radio, or television set, or something similar, is right - the actual you is your soul but that you exists outside of your physical body. Your physical body on the other hand is more like a drone, or sort of avatar, it only connects your soul to the material plane, and your personality here is affected by how much of the real you can come through, so if, say, your brain is damaged after that only parts do. Like, if there is something wrong with your television set the picture or the sound is no longer quite what is being transmitted. But all that goes the other way is permanently stored in your soul. So, if you lose your memory here that just mean that you no longer are getting everything through this way, but after your death you will have all of your memories, and everything that happened to you while you were functioning through your avatar body.
Which, I suppose, might fit the many worlds and many timelines idea and the ability to move from one to another in some way.
However, since our physical bodies will be worn out sooner or later, even if the kind of "jumping" from timeline to timeline was possible, sooner or later you will run out of timelines where you have a working avatar body because all of those got too old to function anymore.
Your physical body on the other hand is more like a drone, or sort of avatar, it only connects your soul to the material plane
That's very much like Kastrup's idea, although he seems to envision the soul as a small "captured" part of the universal consciousness, temporarily dissociated from the rest (thus our usual inability to access and be conscious of everyone else's thoughts and experiences, and of the Universal Consciousness itself).
Your idea that memory is stored in the soul -- in what I'm calling the Universal Consciousness but which might be (as some believe) just one of an infinite number of individual Soul entities -- certainly would allow for "life after death", although I've yet to see a believable mechanism for the storage of useful information in that scenario. Which doesn't mean there isn't one . . .
In 2011, while crossing the street after work, I was hit by a Dodge truck and thrown up and over it. Seeing my body fly across the windshield, the driver pulled over leaving me airborne to come crashing to the pavement. As I hit the pavement I suddenly expected another vehicle to strike/run over me. It took a second to realize no vehicle struck me during afternoon drive time. Instantly the police and ambulance arrived. Since I was alive, conscious and had no severe injuries the police looking at my dirty work clothes assumed I hadn't even been hit. However, the driver and several witnesses assured them that I had so they put me in the ambulance and took me to the hospital to be checked out. My BP was normal in the ambulance which surprised the paramedic. At the hospital, the doctor was shaking his head how surprised he was that I wasn't more than just bruised. So, what if immortality is OUR timeline and other remnants of us do die in other people's timelines? Or do we transfer timelines and never die? Or, is it possible that 100 billion players are running a video game simulation and we are just a background character? Thoughts?
So, what if immortality is OUR timeline and other remnants of us do die in other people's timelines? Or do we transfer timelines and never die?
Thank you so much for sharing your story here. u/Joby14212you hit the nail square on the head! What happens to others in our reality does not necessarily happen to them in their reality. Because consciousness is energy and energy cannot be destroyed, we play out this timeline from the perspective that we always make it to a very old age until we are "ready to go" like so many people 100+ years old often say.
How would YOU convey this idea to one of your children? Would this be a good reason to repeatedly tell them "DO NOT FEAR" death as Jesus told us, yet we still find 'reasons' to disobey Him?
“…In which one comes to the ultimate realization that all of creation is substantially nothing but a mere idea-play of God’s own nature, and that NOTHING IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE EXISTS BESIDES HIS OWN SELF.”
The universe exists in the mind of the Creator, and nothing else can be regarded as "real."
And here's the kicker…
Jesus in Mathew 25: "Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
“Then the righteous will answer him,‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
“I am the LIGHT that is over All. I am The All. The All comes from me and unfolds toward me. Split a piece of wood, there I am. Lift up the stone, you have found me there.“ ~Jesus
All = Everything
Because of this, there is nothing in the entire universe, no stone, no piece of wood, no single hair on a person's head, that could ever be separate from the All, that is, GOD.
For a man, created by the All, to think he ever could possibly be separate from the only thing that is, that is the true Vanity.
Pray on the above things friends. Ask God to give you a sign.
That's an intriguing story, and your theory about it is as good as any. I would make sense, perhaps, if the multiverse is real. I don't think it is, but then I really have no way to know; I haven't seen anything to prove or disprove either the multiverse or Kastrup's theory, which is basically an extension of Quantum Wave theory, which IS well supported. But it might be that the deep nature of the universe is actually beyond human comprehension -- something I suspect is mostly true.
I have thought about this my entire life. Like, how many times have I actually died in other "timelines" and does it happen all the time ultimately ending in death from old age? Because there are SEVERAL times I shouldn't have walked away.
Agreed. I drowned twice as a child. Age 5 resuscitated. I was hit briad by a drunk driver going 90 mph. I fell in front of a train 9 seconds away. And other close calls. Likely we all have.
I don't buy the multiverse idea (and if I did, I wouldn't buy THIS idea that "your consciousness flees your body just before you die and inhabits one of 'your' bodies in another universe" -- what happens to the soul of THAT body, or are all the infinite number of bodies in the infinite number of universes just zombies until YOUR soul -- you being apparently the only "REAL" version of you -- jumps into some other schmuck's body? And as the centuries roll by, how is it that a copy of your body is still around to take over?).
There is ANOTHER quantum-based idea about mortality that some of us might be interested in, although I have trouble with it because it lacks any visible mechanism for memory retention -- certain types of brain damage can erase memories because memory is stored in the physical brain; if the immaterial soul had a way to store memories, that wouldn't be an issue.
The theory I'm discussing is best described by Kastrup and basically consists of these ideas:
Consciousness is primary; the physical is secondary. Quantum wave theory, which states that elementary particles, such as light and electrons, are nodes (or call it what you will) on the probability waves that carry the particles; see the Double-Slit experiment for details proving that particles are waves of probability -- which Kastrup sees as emanations of the universal consciousness -- until they are observed (which has a specialized meaning broader than the common one).
The physical brain is constantly, iteratively self-reflective and this causes a small amount of the universal consciousness to be captured and dissociated from the whole, much as in multiple personality disorder where one conscious personality is isolated from the others. The result is a person's soul, which does something the glob-of-matter-brain cannot do on its own: EXPERIENCE what happens in the brain and body and exert free will (possible due to quantum uncertainty and more).
After death, including after a temporary death (e.g., someone "brought back from the dead" via an EMT's revival efforts or whatever), the soul re-merges with the Universal Consciousness.
What I DON'T see is any method to take one's memories with the soul; without the physical brain, there isn't any mechanism for that in the theory (unless I've missed something).
Of course, that doesn't mean there ISN'T such a mechanism; this is, after all, just a theory and while it seems well supported in a number of ways I don't think of it as any more than a sketch. I like it, though.
I believe memories are written into the fabric of things. Like a cosmic blockchain. We exist within this fabric and theoretically could access any of it. Psychics, remote viewing, all of that stuff, is just being done by people with an ability to tap into this information.
I like that idea, and have wondered if something like that might exist. It would allow for actual "survival after death", perhaps -- IF it included the survival of the personality and memories together in a cohesive sub-entity instead of being smeared out among the entire universe. Or maybe the "entire universe" can isolate and make use of those memories and personality patterns of "you", sort of reconstituting you as needed or wanted.
Even simple biology is insanely complex and we are STILL learning about forces, mechanisms, etc that help even single cells function; I doubt very much that human minds can fully comprehend the nature of the whole damn universe.
That is such a great point u/Narg and I'm glad you brought that up because John Titor actually talked about it specifically on two separate occasions:
Jan 26th, 2001:
"Since the existence of multiple universes is a reality from my viewpoint, please allow me to disclose an idea we toss around a bit in 2036. Since all possibilities, outcomes and events are occurring and exist simultaneously; it would mean there are multiple universes out there where “you” are living a day behind and a day ahead of the “you” on this universe. There are some who believe that memory is some sort of information transfer or communication with the “yous” in the past, across worldlines or universes. Although this is seemingly quite ridiculous, if you think that could be true, then physics tells us that the same information transfer from our future selves on other worldlines is not only possible but certain. Could it be that fantasy or “what if” scenarios are actually future memory from an alternate “us” on a future worldline?"
Feb 2nd, 2001:
"There is also an area of thought that maintains all of the “yous” out there will make up the “you” that eventually returns to God. In that manner, it is frustrating to know that you are capable of and acting on all of the thoughts and ideas you have regardless of what the “you” hear is doing. How good or evil do you think you can be?
There is even an idea (supported in physics apparently but I have a hard time with this one) that there is some sort of communication going on between all of the “yous” that are out there. Some people think that memories, intuition and conscious are actually attempts by one version of “you” to talk to another."
Source:
https://temporalrecon.wordpress.com/the-titor-posts/
The idea that everything possible becomes real is at the core of the multiverse idea, and it DOES solve a lot of interesting problems. It may be that we cannot comprehend the full nature of "real" -- the multiverse idea has adherents and opponents among physicists, as you know -- but as I said the idea just doesn't work for me. Then again, perhaps another version of me in another 'verse has other ideas . . .
+1
Hahaha u/Narg that last line was great! Agree or disagree, I Thank you for giving your input here!
Thank you also, John. I love having people here who I can discuss such things with.
Unless the idea that our brains are more like a radio, or television set, or something similar, is right - the actual you is your soul but that you exists outside of your physical body. Your physical body on the other hand is more like a drone, or sort of avatar, it only connects your soul to the material plane, and your personality here is affected by how much of the real you can come through, so if, say, your brain is damaged after that only parts do. Like, if there is something wrong with your television set the picture or the sound is no longer quite what is being transmitted. But all that goes the other way is permanently stored in your soul. So, if you lose your memory here that just mean that you no longer are getting everything through this way, but after your death you will have all of your memories, and everything that happened to you while you were functioning through your avatar body.
Which, I suppose, might fit the many worlds and many timelines idea and the ability to move from one to another in some way.
However, since our physical bodies will be worn out sooner or later, even if the kind of "jumping" from timeline to timeline was possible, sooner or later you will run out of timelines where you have a working avatar body because all of those got too old to function anymore.
That's very much like Kastrup's idea, although he seems to envision the soul as a small "captured" part of the universal consciousness, temporarily dissociated from the rest (thus our usual inability to access and be conscious of everyone else's thoughts and experiences, and of the Universal Consciousness itself).
Your idea that memory is stored in the soul -- in what I'm calling the Universal Consciousness but which might be (as some believe) just one of an infinite number of individual Soul entities -- certainly would allow for "life after death", although I've yet to see a believable mechanism for the storage of useful information in that scenario. Which doesn't mean there isn't one . . .
In 2011, while crossing the street after work, I was hit by a Dodge truck and thrown up and over it. Seeing my body fly across the windshield, the driver pulled over leaving me airborne to come crashing to the pavement. As I hit the pavement I suddenly expected another vehicle to strike/run over me. It took a second to realize no vehicle struck me during afternoon drive time. Instantly the police and ambulance arrived. Since I was alive, conscious and had no severe injuries the police looking at my dirty work clothes assumed I hadn't even been hit. However, the driver and several witnesses assured them that I had so they put me in the ambulance and took me to the hospital to be checked out. My BP was normal in the ambulance which surprised the paramedic. At the hospital, the doctor was shaking his head how surprised he was that I wasn't more than just bruised. So, what if immortality is OUR timeline and other remnants of us do die in other people's timelines? Or do we transfer timelines and never die? Or, is it possible that 100 billion players are running a video game simulation and we are just a background character? Thoughts?
Thank you so much for sharing your story here. u/Joby14212 you hit the nail square on the head! What happens to others in our reality does not necessarily happen to them in their reality. Because consciousness is energy and energy cannot be destroyed, we play out this timeline from the perspective that we always make it to a very old age until we are "ready to go" like so many people 100+ years old often say.
How would YOU convey this idea to one of your children? Would this be a good reason to repeatedly tell them "DO NOT FEAR" death as Jesus told us, yet we still find 'reasons' to disobey Him?
“…In which one comes to the ultimate realization that all of creation is substantially nothing but a mere idea-play of God’s own nature, and that NOTHING IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE EXISTS BESIDES HIS OWN SELF.”
The universe exists in the mind of the Creator, and nothing else can be regarded as "real."
And here's the kicker…
Jesus in Mathew 25:
"Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
“I am the LIGHT that is over All. I am The All. The All comes from me and unfolds toward me. Split a piece of wood, there I am. Lift up the stone, you have found me there.“ ~Jesus
All = Everything
Because of this, there is nothing in the entire universe, no stone, no piece of wood, no single hair on a person's head, that could ever be separate from the All, that is, GOD.
For a man, created by the All, to think he ever could possibly be separate from the only thing that is, that is the true Vanity.
Pray on the above things friends. Ask God to give you a sign.
Where We Go One, We Go ALL
That's an intriguing story, and your theory about it is as good as any. I would make sense, perhaps, if the multiverse is real. I don't think it is, but then I really have no way to know; I haven't seen anything to prove or disprove either the multiverse or Kastrup's theory, which is basically an extension of Quantum Wave theory, which IS well supported. But it might be that the deep nature of the universe is actually beyond human comprehension -- something I suspect is mostly true.
I have thought about this my entire life. Like, how many times have I actually died in other "timelines" and does it happen all the time ultimately ending in death from old age? Because there are SEVERAL times I shouldn't have walked away.
Agreed. I drowned twice as a child. Age 5 resuscitated. I was hit briad by a drunk driver going 90 mph. I fell in front of a train 9 seconds away. And other close calls. Likely we all have.