Israel's spiritual state when they're regathered isn't really what decides if modern Israel is legit in prophecy.
Prophets like Zechariah and Ezekiel actually show Israel coming back in unbelief first, then later having a spiritual awakening when the Messiah comes.
So what we're seeing now - the Jews regathering in their homeland - is the physical part of these prophecies happening. The spiritual transformation is still coming.
Agreed. So what if the Rothschilds re-established Israel for their own nefarious purpose, Israel had to be established to fulfill the end times prophecies. God uses powerful men of the world to accomplish His purpose, e.g. Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, and even Herod who ordered Christ's crucifixion. Ultimately, all things will work together to accomplish God's eternal purpose.
There were 13 tribes of Israel: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Benjamin, Ephraim and Manasseh. Only the tribes of Benjamin and Judah returned to their homeland after they were taken away by the Assyrians. “Jew” would only refer to someone from the tribe of Judah. It will be a wonderful day when it is revealed who the descendants of those other missing tribes are.
I believe you must be referring to the lost tribes of Israel. Well if they are lost why don't they phone home? Don't they have cellphones?
Seriously I believe after they were scattered they intermarried and have long ago ceased being a unique people.
Besides under the New Covenant it doesn't matter - there are neither "Jew" nor "Greek". Gal 3:28 - "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." It's not about bloodline anymore.
For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.…
It's a popular misconception that the prophets and prophecies of the Old Testament somehow speak about the present, the future, or the last 2000 years.
But Jesus was very clear that ALL the prophets and their prophecies were only about the times leading up until John the Baptist, aka the Time of Jesus.
Curiously, Jesus also taught us that John the Baptist was the prophesied second coming of Elijah. Curious, huh?
I agree! The way I see it all prophecy points to Jesus Christ. Most Christians seem to read the bible asking themselves "what does this mean to me"? What they should be asking is what did this passage of scripture likely mean to the original audience it was written too? Revelation, for example, was written to 7 churches in Asia that existed in the 1st century. These were real churches, with real people who had real problems. What was John's purpose in addressing Revelation to them? Wasn't it to comfort them? Weren't they under tremendous persecution?
Yes, it was written to the 7 churches, however, Rev. 1:1 tells us that the things written were "signs." The 7 lampstands were "signs" of the 7 churches. Also, the Lord said that the church in Thyatira would remain until He returns (Rev. 2:25). And the church in Sardis (3:3). The church in Philadelphia will be saved out of the hour of trial that will come on the whole inhabited earth(3:10) and that hasn't happened yet. He said to the church in Laodicea, that he who overcomes will sit with Him on His throne. That didn't happen 2,000 years ago. Also, each letter to the 7 churches ends with, "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. So, it was not just written to a few churches in Asia. It was written to the whole church.
The 7 churches were, themselves, prophetic signs of the stages of the church through history and their names are prophetic. Ephesus means "desirable." She left her first love, but she was still desirable, Smyrna (from myrrh) signifies suffering and death. This was the time of persecution. Pergamos means marriage (monogamy, polygamy). The church was married to the world at the time of Constantine. Thyatira, means sacrifice of perfume, and is the fully formed Roman Catholic Church. Sardis, means the remainder, restoration, or reformation and includes all Protestantism. Next came Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love--the only approved church. They only need to hold fast what they have. Last is Laodicea, which means "the opinion of the people--the laymen." IOW, they were not led by the Spirit and the word, but by their own opinion.
Revelation 1:1 (KJV) - The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Revelation 1:1 doesn't say anything about "signs". It says "signified". Strong's concordance says that it means "to indicate". God sent an angel to John to signify (indicate) things which "must shortly come to pass". Rev. 1:1 doesn't mention lampstands.
I'm not fond of the Catholic Church however, Revelation does not say that Thyatira is the Catholic Church. In fact the Catholic Church hadn't even come into existence at the time John wrote Revelation. I think you are reading too much into the text.
A good verse by verse commentary on Revelation is David Chilton's book "Days of Vengeance". I ordered 4 copies to give as Christmas presents.
Israel's spiritual state when they're regathered isn't really what decides if modern Israel is legit in prophecy.
Prophets like Zechariah and Ezekiel actually show Israel coming back in unbelief first, then later having a spiritual awakening when the Messiah comes.
So what we're seeing now - the Jews regathering in their homeland - is the physical part of these prophecies happening. The spiritual transformation is still coming.
Agreed. So what if the Rothschilds re-established Israel for their own nefarious purpose, Israel had to be established to fulfill the end times prophecies. God uses powerful men of the world to accomplish His purpose, e.g. Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, and even Herod who ordered Christ's crucifixion. Ultimately, all things will work together to accomplish God's eternal purpose.
Bingo.
So much this.
There were 13 tribes of Israel: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Benjamin, Ephraim and Manasseh. Only the tribes of Benjamin and Judah returned to their homeland after they were taken away by the Assyrians. “Jew” would only refer to someone from the tribe of Judah. It will be a wonderful day when it is revealed who the descendants of those other missing tribes are.
I believe you must be referring to the lost tribes of Israel. Well if they are lost why don't they phone home? Don't they have cellphones?
Seriously I believe after they were scattered they intermarried and have long ago ceased being a unique people.
Besides under the New Covenant it doesn't matter - there are neither "Jew" nor "Greek". Gal 3:28 - "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." It's not about bloodline anymore.
Hmmm...
Matthew 11:13-14
For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.…
It's a popular misconception that the prophets and prophecies of the Old Testament somehow speak about the present, the future, or the last 2000 years.
But Jesus was very clear that ALL the prophets and their prophecies were only about the times leading up until John the Baptist, aka the Time of Jesus.
Curiously, Jesus also taught us that John the Baptist was the prophesied second coming of Elijah. Curious, huh?
I agree! The way I see it all prophecy points to Jesus Christ. Most Christians seem to read the bible asking themselves "what does this mean to me"? What they should be asking is what did this passage of scripture likely mean to the original audience it was written too? Revelation, for example, was written to 7 churches in Asia that existed in the 1st century. These were real churches, with real people who had real problems. What was John's purpose in addressing Revelation to them? Wasn't it to comfort them? Weren't they under tremendous persecution?
Yes, it was written to the 7 churches, however, Rev. 1:1 tells us that the things written were "signs." The 7 lampstands were "signs" of the 7 churches. Also, the Lord said that the church in Thyatira would remain until He returns (Rev. 2:25). And the church in Sardis (3:3). The church in Philadelphia will be saved out of the hour of trial that will come on the whole inhabited earth(3:10) and that hasn't happened yet. He said to the church in Laodicea, that he who overcomes will sit with Him on His throne. That didn't happen 2,000 years ago. Also, each letter to the 7 churches ends with, "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. So, it was not just written to a few churches in Asia. It was written to the whole church.
The 7 churches were, themselves, prophetic signs of the stages of the church through history and their names are prophetic. Ephesus means "desirable." She left her first love, but she was still desirable, Smyrna (from myrrh) signifies suffering and death. This was the time of persecution. Pergamos means marriage (monogamy, polygamy). The church was married to the world at the time of Constantine. Thyatira, means sacrifice of perfume, and is the fully formed Roman Catholic Church. Sardis, means the remainder, restoration, or reformation and includes all Protestantism. Next came Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love--the only approved church. They only need to hold fast what they have. Last is Laodicea, which means "the opinion of the people--the laymen." IOW, they were not led by the Spirit and the word, but by their own opinion.
Thanks for your thoughtful response.
Revelation 1:1 (KJV) - The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Revelation 1:1 doesn't say anything about "signs". It says "signified". Strong's concordance says that it means "to indicate". God sent an angel to John to signify (indicate) things which "must shortly come to pass". Rev. 1:1 doesn't mention lampstands.
I'm not fond of the Catholic Church however, Revelation does not say that Thyatira is the Catholic Church. In fact the Catholic Church hadn't even come into existence at the time John wrote Revelation. I think you are reading too much into the text.
A good verse by verse commentary on Revelation is David Chilton's book "Days of Vengeance". I ordered 4 copies to give as Christmas presents.