No. God is and will always be in control. You may think “you’re “ in control, that’s typical of man. You can’t even guarantee you’ll be breathing a few seconds from now. It’s His Will.
So you believe God created all of us to be robots with no free will? Every move and decision we make is pre ordained by God? I’m a Christian and I believe in God’s Will, but we are not robots and although he could literally control everything, he does not and chooses not to.
You have free will. But God knows all outcomes. He knew you before you were even born. He knows you more than “you” know yourself. That is the control. He “allows” you to have the responsibility of choice, but doesn’t have to. He’s all powerful and “can” control the outcome if He chooses to. There is never a time God doesn’t know what’s happening. People that place limits on God is what amazes me.
People that place limits on God is what amazes me.
Indeed. I think you've hit on an important point. "He’s all powerful and “can” control the outcome if He chooses to."
Right. And the way I see it, God's chooses, even though it is more painful and causes much heartache to him, to NOT interfere with the outcome, allowing us to make mistakes, so that ultimately, we can also make, well, non-mistakes. That is, so that ultimately, we can make the right choice, and bring God's desired outcome.
God is motivated to do this from love. Love for us, love for his vision of who we can be. It's completely unselfish. This sacrificial heart is what manifests directly in the life of Jesus Christ.
You folks discussing this, for good reason, are getting snagged on the biggest 'issue' that theology has not been able to solve so far. Nonetheless, as Paul said "Now we see in a mirror dimly"
How do we resolve the following elements? 1) God is absolute, and God's will is absolute and 2) God created human being with free will.
Some offer a contradictory belief: Sure, you have free will, but God knows all outcomes. Which actually means, you don't have free will. because it means the outcome is predetermined.
Others offer different belief: God is neutral.
Locked, I believe you are close to the core matter when you write: "although he could literally control everything, he does not and chooses not to"
The solution to the conundrum lies in understanding the Purpose for which God created. The Why? And the How is that to be achieved. Everything stems from there. And to understand that, we need to understand the fundamental dynamics of the universe, which themselves are rooted in God's own nature. As an artist, the Creator manifested his own nature in the creation. Paul alludes to this here: "For ever since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen in the things that have been made.
Sorry, Not trying to stretch this out of overly complicate it. But these points are critical, imo.
God's original core nature is love. How does love manifest? Relationship. Love is only experienced when there is a relationship between A) the giver and B) the recipient. When B) receive that love, and then returns it to A), the perfect loop of love is established. And, in the universe, ALL THINGS only exist, act or multiply (develop) when there is a giving and receiving relationship between two aspects or parties. Spirit and flesh = man, man and woman = couple, leftside brain + right side brain = functioning human brain.
For God to experience joy in his own pure nature, he had to create a B), someone or something who could receive his love and return it. This is humanity. His children. And the blue print for this is revealed in the Three Blessings he gave to Adam: be fruitful (which means, grow up and bear fruit. A tree cannot bear fruit unless it matures to completion of its growth into a mature tree) = mature and perfect your heart, your ability to receive love and give love. Multiply. Take that mature love and multiply it through your relationships, aka take a wife, create a family that manifests God's own love and multiplies offspring who, in a family of love, can themselves grow to maturity in the way of love. Have Dominion. When God;s son and daughter unite in their mature love, in which God is the foremost partner, and their unity is bound by their unity with God, then they form a family that becomes God's family, and God dwells there. Then, When such a family multiplies into a clan, a society, a nation, etc, then 'take dominion' over the created world with that God-centered love.
That kind of world is the kind of world in which human beings can grow their spirit, their heart, to be able to perfectly unite with God and with each other and all living things. In love.
But love cannot be forced. It only manifests in freedom. a free choice, to love. And, more importantly, God needs human beings to be like Him. So God as a creator, had to create children who are also creators. Not robots. But creators, like God.
Who or what do we create? Ourselves. we play a direct role in creating ourselves that is, in maturing and growing our ability to give and receive love, by the choices we make along the way. And because God is absolute, to perfectly unite with God, as Christ shows us, requires human beings also to be absolute in our love. But, because we start out with freedom, immature, like a seed, who has the potential to manifest and express God's own divine loving nature, we begin in this created world, which is relative.
So, God's design involves the absolute (God) and the relative (the creation, aka human beings, where we start).
How to put all this together? God creates us to grow according to his command , and by our faith in that command, choosing to have faith, making that effort to unite in faith, we can mature ourselves and become more like the manifestation of God's own nature, and form unity with him.
God is absolute, so his will is absolute, BUT the timing and the way that absolute Will unfolds, this also depends on man. Because our ability to accomplish God's will is relative. And this is why history has taken so long. Scripture says that God "regretted creating man" when he saw the horrible corruption they had chosen. This was not God's will, but the outcome caused when God's partner - human beings - turned away from him and instead of using their freedom to unite with God and manifest his love, they chose to turn away and manifest the will of the fallen angel. That choice is real.
But because God is absolute, his Will that humanity returns to him and eventually unites with him will absolutely manifest. But if the chosen person or people fail to fulfill their responsibility in that process, then God's will is delayed, until someone who does make the right and necessary choices arrives. Adam failed, Jesus restored. John the Baptist was predestined to become the greatest of all the prophets, but he ended out completely doubting even if Jesus is the Messiah.
C) The fulfillment of God's will = A) fulfillment of God's responsibility (roughly 99% of the equation, which God always and absolutely fulfills) + B) the successful correct fulfillment of the human portion of responsibility (which succeeds or fails depending on what the chosen key person or people choose).
If the second part of the equation fails in a given instance, God works to recreate the same circumstances again and have someone new fulfill that originally planned B). Israel failed to receive Jesus, Christianity was raised in Israel's place.
Many instances of this formula in the scripture. Again and again and again, although the situation expands from individual, to family, to tribe, to nation, to worldwide. Adam to Noah, to Abraham, To Moses, to Jesus.
God's will is perfect and absolute, BUT in order that his children can also stand with him as actual children, with love and creativity (not robots, or servants, which the angels essentially are), God chose NOT ton control his creation, but instead invested in us his faith, his belief in us, and gave us the power of creation, which is the power of choice.
This was the ONLY way that a universe in which the central role could be played by human beings as God's own children manifesting God's own creativity and love, could be designed.
It is the life destiny of each human being to bring the relative realm (the created realm) to the place where it meets the absolute realm of God's love. Jesus Christ was the first (the first of many future fruits) to accomplish this very purpose.
Personally, I believe that God wants us to engraft ourselves into Jesus, to become more and more Jesus-like. And, when the second coming takes place and our bodies are also redeemed back to God, that is, our flesh will come under God's jurisdiction so that God can fully dwell in us and chase out Satan (which he cannot do yet, as our bodies are still under the jurisdiction of sin, as Paul said, even we as believers, our spirits are saved but our flesh needs to constantly ward off attacks from evil).
Imagine a whole race of people who had the same ability to love as Jesus. This is God's purpose and ideal, in my opinion.
Either way, God's will is accomplished through the combination of God's responsibility (which is always accomplished) and human responsibility (which, unfortunately, depends on us). The Human responsibility is to have faith and then act on that faith. Live in accordance with that faith.
God chose it this way so that we could partly create ourselves, and truly reflect his own divine nature, through love.
PS. I know this framework cuts along a lot of people's theological conceptions, but I see no other way to explain and actually reconcile the fact that God and God's will are absolute but that God's children also have free will. Any other explanation I have ever encountered seems to fall short to me, and relies heavily on ignoring one aspect or another.
The key then, is understanding relationship. What is the actual relationship between God's will, God's work (responsibility) and human responsibility? Can they fit together, and if so how? (Obviously they fit together, if both are true. But how?) For me, that's what this framework reconciles.
You are talking about a completely different thing. I’m only talking about this current war going on. The war on consciousness. God does not intervene and it’s why the cabal ruled for thousands of years. But now We The People are all awakening and the tides are turning. We The People together are the God of this earth.
Wrong. God is neutral. It’s up to US The People to decide who wins the war. War on consciousness.
No. God is and will always be in control. You may think “you’re “ in control, that’s typical of man. You can’t even guarantee you’ll be breathing a few seconds from now. It’s His Will.
So you believe God created all of us to be robots with no free will? Every move and decision we make is pre ordained by God? I’m a Christian and I believe in God’s Will, but we are not robots and although he could literally control everything, he does not and chooses not to.
Edit: wanted to add I agree to your statement.
You have free will. But God knows all outcomes. He knew you before you were even born. He knows you more than “you” know yourself. That is the control. He “allows” you to have the responsibility of choice, but doesn’t have to. He’s all powerful and “can” control the outcome if He chooses to. There is never a time God doesn’t know what’s happening. People that place limits on God is what amazes me.
Indeed. I think you've hit on an important point. "He’s all powerful and “can” control the outcome if He chooses to."
Right. And the way I see it, God's chooses, even though it is more painful and causes much heartache to him, to NOT interfere with the outcome, allowing us to make mistakes, so that ultimately, we can also make, well, non-mistakes. That is, so that ultimately, we can make the right choice, and bring God's desired outcome.
God is motivated to do this from love. Love for us, love for his vision of who we can be. It's completely unselfish. This sacrificial heart is what manifests directly in the life of Jesus Christ.
You folks discussing this, for good reason, are getting snagged on the biggest 'issue' that theology has not been able to solve so far. Nonetheless, as Paul said "Now we see in a mirror dimly"
How do we resolve the following elements? 1) God is absolute, and God's will is absolute and 2) God created human being with free will.
Some offer a contradictory belief: Sure, you have free will, but God knows all outcomes. Which actually means, you don't have free will. because it means the outcome is predetermined. Others offer different belief: God is neutral.
Locked, I believe you are close to the core matter when you write: "although he could literally control everything, he does not and chooses not to"
The solution to the conundrum lies in understanding the Purpose for which God created. The Why? And the How is that to be achieved. Everything stems from there. And to understand that, we need to understand the fundamental dynamics of the universe, which themselves are rooted in God's own nature. As an artist, the Creator manifested his own nature in the creation. Paul alludes to this here: "For ever since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen in the things that have been made.
Sorry, Not trying to stretch this out of overly complicate it. But these points are critical, imo.
God's original core nature is love. How does love manifest? Relationship. Love is only experienced when there is a relationship between A) the giver and B) the recipient. When B) receive that love, and then returns it to A), the perfect loop of love is established. And, in the universe, ALL THINGS only exist, act or multiply (develop) when there is a giving and receiving relationship between two aspects or parties. Spirit and flesh = man, man and woman = couple, leftside brain + right side brain = functioning human brain.
For God to experience joy in his own pure nature, he had to create a B), someone or something who could receive his love and return it. This is humanity. His children. And the blue print for this is revealed in the Three Blessings he gave to Adam: be fruitful (which means, grow up and bear fruit. A tree cannot bear fruit unless it matures to completion of its growth into a mature tree) = mature and perfect your heart, your ability to receive love and give love. Multiply. Take that mature love and multiply it through your relationships, aka take a wife, create a family that manifests God's own love and multiplies offspring who, in a family of love, can themselves grow to maturity in the way of love. Have Dominion. When God;s son and daughter unite in their mature love, in which God is the foremost partner, and their unity is bound by their unity with God, then they form a family that becomes God's family, and God dwells there. Then, When such a family multiplies into a clan, a society, a nation, etc, then 'take dominion' over the created world with that God-centered love.
That kind of world is the kind of world in which human beings can grow their spirit, their heart, to be able to perfectly unite with God and with each other and all living things. In love.
But love cannot be forced. It only manifests in freedom. a free choice, to love. And, more importantly, God needs human beings to be like Him. So God as a creator, had to create children who are also creators. Not robots. But creators, like God.
Who or what do we create? Ourselves. we play a direct role in creating ourselves that is, in maturing and growing our ability to give and receive love, by the choices we make along the way. And because God is absolute, to perfectly unite with God, as Christ shows us, requires human beings also to be absolute in our love. But, because we start out with freedom, immature, like a seed, who has the potential to manifest and express God's own divine loving nature, we begin in this created world, which is relative.
So, God's design involves the absolute (God) and the relative (the creation, aka human beings, where we start).
How to put all this together? God creates us to grow according to his command , and by our faith in that command, choosing to have faith, making that effort to unite in faith, we can mature ourselves and become more like the manifestation of God's own nature, and form unity with him.
God is absolute, so his will is absolute, BUT the timing and the way that absolute Will unfolds, this also depends on man. Because our ability to accomplish God's will is relative. And this is why history has taken so long. Scripture says that God "regretted creating man" when he saw the horrible corruption they had chosen. This was not God's will, but the outcome caused when God's partner - human beings - turned away from him and instead of using their freedom to unite with God and manifest his love, they chose to turn away and manifest the will of the fallen angel. That choice is real.
But because God is absolute, his Will that humanity returns to him and eventually unites with him will absolutely manifest. But if the chosen person or people fail to fulfill their responsibility in that process, then God's will is delayed, until someone who does make the right and necessary choices arrives. Adam failed, Jesus restored. John the Baptist was predestined to become the greatest of all the prophets, but he ended out completely doubting even if Jesus is the Messiah.
C) The fulfillment of God's will = A) fulfillment of God's responsibility (roughly 99% of the equation, which God always and absolutely fulfills) + B) the successful correct fulfillment of the human portion of responsibility (which succeeds or fails depending on what the chosen key person or people choose).
If the second part of the equation fails in a given instance, God works to recreate the same circumstances again and have someone new fulfill that originally planned B). Israel failed to receive Jesus, Christianity was raised in Israel's place.
Many instances of this formula in the scripture. Again and again and again, although the situation expands from individual, to family, to tribe, to nation, to worldwide. Adam to Noah, to Abraham, To Moses, to Jesus.
God's will is perfect and absolute, BUT in order that his children can also stand with him as actual children, with love and creativity (not robots, or servants, which the angels essentially are), God chose NOT ton control his creation, but instead invested in us his faith, his belief in us, and gave us the power of creation, which is the power of choice.
This was the ONLY way that a universe in which the central role could be played by human beings as God's own children manifesting God's own creativity and love, could be designed.
It is the life destiny of each human being to bring the relative realm (the created realm) to the place where it meets the absolute realm of God's love. Jesus Christ was the first (the first of many future fruits) to accomplish this very purpose.
Personally, I believe that God wants us to engraft ourselves into Jesus, to become more and more Jesus-like. And, when the second coming takes place and our bodies are also redeemed back to God, that is, our flesh will come under God's jurisdiction so that God can fully dwell in us and chase out Satan (which he cannot do yet, as our bodies are still under the jurisdiction of sin, as Paul said, even we as believers, our spirits are saved but our flesh needs to constantly ward off attacks from evil).
Imagine a whole race of people who had the same ability to love as Jesus. This is God's purpose and ideal, in my opinion.
Either way, God's will is accomplished through the combination of God's responsibility (which is always accomplished) and human responsibility (which, unfortunately, depends on us). The Human responsibility is to have faith and then act on that faith. Live in accordance with that faith.
God chose it this way so that we could partly create ourselves, and truly reflect his own divine nature, through love.
PS. I know this framework cuts along a lot of people's theological conceptions, but I see no other way to explain and actually reconcile the fact that God and God's will are absolute but that God's children also have free will. Any other explanation I have ever encountered seems to fall short to me, and relies heavily on ignoring one aspect or another.
The key then, is understanding relationship. What is the actual relationship between God's will, God's work (responsibility) and human responsibility? Can they fit together, and if so how? (Obviously they fit together, if both are true. But how?) For me, that's what this framework reconciles.
u/Cyberhawk
That is an amazing write up. I thank you for your time and words friend.
You are talking about a completely different thing. I’m only talking about this current war going on. The war on consciousness. God does not intervene and it’s why the cabal ruled for thousands of years. But now We The People are all awakening and the tides are turning. We The People together are the God of this earth.
You completely overlook the actions of Satan. Like he doesn’t exist. Man rules nothing. Satan rules this planet. John 12:31.