No they haven’t. Mandatory Shave policies are comparatively recent in European and Western inspired Armies historically speaking.
You’re conflating personal and occasionally cultural preference of previous eras with being a standardized policy that only really came into its own the last century.
For the Romans of Caesars day there was a cultural preference towards being clean shaven, partly because of Greek Influences and partly most of the people they fought regularly. Carthaginians, Celts, Germans, Thracians etc often weren’t. Or didn’t shave and cut their hair anywhere near as often. So it was important to distinguish themselves from the ‘Barbarians’ and Foreigners. How often you could afford to shave was also a marker of Wealth. With Romans on the frontiers often being more scruffier than their richer cousins in the heartland.
After the Romans fell. There were some cultural preferences towards a well groomed appearance. But well groomed doesn’t necessarily mean shaved. Facial hair was seen far more often. Particularly among soldiers and Officers.
It’s only the advent of Chemical Warfare in the 20th century that really saw it start fading from prominence again.
You said “Armies have had shave policies since they were created”.
Then brought up Caesar. I corrected you and said Caesar and the Romans were clean shaven because of cultural preferences and Greek influences. Not because of a standard Military or Government policy.
After the Romans fell. Beards and Facial Hair became increasingly more common. Though most European nations and cultures preferred well groomed facial hair. If the man opted for facial hair. As opposed to Mountain man esc beards
Subsequently. It became increasingly common. Particularly among Soldiers and Officers to see facial hair. From beards to mustaches. In fact facial hair was considered an unofficial part of the uniform for some units, social classes, and military formations at various points in history. As you so noted with the Victorian observation.
Mandatory shaving and grooming standards are very much a result of WW1 and the advent of Chemical Warfare. Not historic standards for Military Forces.
Even then there’s some debate now about how useful our current iterations of CBRN equipment and MOPP gear actually will be in modern day. Given it’s increasingly easy, given tech improvements, to tailor make various Biological and Chemical Threats in the scientific equivalent of a basement. No one for obvious reasons has been eager to test it though
You're correct. I read the following paragraph and did not think for myself.
"Muslim rights groups are concerned that new US Army grooming standards will exclude Muslims and Sikhs from serving. There are only about 10,000 – 20,000 US service members who identify as Muslim, and Sikhs appear to number only in the low double digits."
I conflated Sikhs with Muslims. My bad. Thanks for pointing this out!
They are mistaken. The military grooming standards will not exclude Muslims and Sikhs from serving. They are more then welcome to defend our country. They will be expected to adhere to the uniform grooming standards put in place a century ago. Not our problem we had politicians who said it was OK to be bearded.
Long hair gets caught up in stuff, it's a safety hazard.
Beards make it impossible to get a BA to seal properly, it's a safety hazard.
Not to mention wiping one's ass with one's bare hand
u/#spitcoffee
No sympathy. Armies have had shave policies since armies were created.
Julius Ceasar's style: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/192717
No they haven’t. Mandatory Shave policies are comparatively recent in European and Western inspired Armies historically speaking.
You’re conflating personal and occasionally cultural preference of previous eras with being a standardized policy that only really came into its own the last century.
For the Romans of Caesars day there was a cultural preference towards being clean shaven, partly because of Greek Influences and partly most of the people they fought regularly. Carthaginians, Celts, Germans, Thracians etc often weren’t. Or didn’t shave and cut their hair anywhere near as often. So it was important to distinguish themselves from the ‘Barbarians’ and Foreigners. How often you could afford to shave was also a marker of Wealth. With Romans on the frontiers often being more scruffier than their richer cousins in the heartland.
After the Romans fell. There were some cultural preferences towards a well groomed appearance. But well groomed doesn’t necessarily mean shaved. Facial hair was seen far more often. Particularly among soldiers and Officers.
It’s only the advent of Chemical Warfare in the 20th century that really saw it start fading from prominence again.
Actually, a mustache was part of the dress-code for Victorian soldiers, and the clean shaven soldier was a WW1 thing - something to do with gas-masks.
I know. That’s what I said.
You said “Armies have had shave policies since they were created”.
Then brought up Caesar. I corrected you and said Caesar and the Romans were clean shaven because of cultural preferences and Greek influences. Not because of a standard Military or Government policy.
After the Romans fell. Beards and Facial Hair became increasingly more common. Though most European nations and cultures preferred well groomed facial hair. If the man opted for facial hair. As opposed to Mountain man esc beards
Subsequently. It became increasingly common. Particularly among Soldiers and Officers to see facial hair. From beards to mustaches. In fact facial hair was considered an unofficial part of the uniform for some units, social classes, and military formations at various points in history. As you so noted with the Victorian observation.
Mandatory shaving and grooming standards are very much a result of WW1 and the advent of Chemical Warfare. Not historic standards for Military Forces.
Even then there’s some debate now about how useful our current iterations of CBRN equipment and MOPP gear actually will be in modern day. Given it’s increasingly easy, given tech improvements, to tailor make various Biological and Chemical Threats in the scientific equivalent of a basement. No one for obvious reasons has been eager to test it though
Good stuff
Sikh your ass back to Muslimland.
Sikhs are not Muslim
Tomato tomato.
No not even close.
Sikhs are the good ones. Literally never met a sikh who wasn't an awesome person to be around
You're correct. I read the following paragraph and did not think for myself.
"Muslim rights groups are concerned that new US Army grooming standards will exclude Muslims and Sikhs from serving. There are only about 10,000 – 20,000 US service members who identify as Muslim, and Sikhs appear to number only in the low double digits."
I conflated Sikhs with Muslims. My bad. Thanks for pointing this out!
They are mistaken. The military grooming standards will not exclude Muslims and Sikhs from serving. They are more then welcome to defend our country. They will be expected to adhere to the uniform grooming standards put in place a century ago. Not our problem we had politicians who said it was OK to be bearded.
Oh hell no! They shouldn’t be allowed in the military while we’re at war with them
u/#peperee