I’m curious how a belief in pre-trib rapture is a bad thing?
If the “rapture”, or rather, going to meet Yeshua in the clouds, is post- or mid- tribulation, anyone waiting on a pre-trib rapture to let us skip the hard parts is going to be woefully underprepared.
Does pre-trib mean we should be getting ready spiritually? Sure. So does the fact that we could die at any time. Only the other two offer a suggestion of being prepared otherwise. The meek inheriting the earth also seems to imply that we are still here afterward.
Basically, there’s neither functional nor spiritual value in believing in a pre-trib rapture other than comfort. If it happens, great! I can’t say it’s certainly false. If it doesn’t happen, however….
I’ve been thinking about your reply and I don’t it’s rooted the right premise. Christians who are watching and waiting on the Lord’s appearance shouldn’t be thought of as sitting on their hands unprepared for what might come. I feel it’s the opposite. If your focus is on Jesus and his teachings then you should be wise as a viper. Always hoping for the best but maintaining your armor of God to be prepared for the worst.
It would go against Jesus’ teachings to not be prepared for tribulation, even Jacob’s trouble, the great tribulation. A Christian’s core goal is to endure and occupy with love until His arrival. It’s hard for me to fathom a true believer being caught off guard. For if it were possible, even the elect would be deceived.
I don’t think your argument stands. There is no harm whatsoever believing in pre-trib for the faithful. On the contrary it is hope and anticipation that heals and sustains us.
I agree with all the things you have pointed out that we should do.
If those things are held, and fastly, then there is no benefit to believing in any of the three (pre/mid/post), and any such efforts would be best suited as exploring hypotheticals, while attending more focus on those things you have pointed out:
Hope for the best
Prepare for the worst, both physically and spiritually
Be prepared for tribulation
Have practiced endurance
Always be on guard
Do not sit on your hands unprepared
If those things are kept, then any firm position on rapture becomes irrelevant. If we are caught up, we are caught up, and if not, we are prepared as best as we can be.
Where my concern comes in is with those who are weaker in faith, for whom, really either position as dogma could become a stumbling block. The weak in faith may put his hopes into being caught up to avoid tribulation, though the servant is not greater than the master, but also the weak in faith may become discouraged by being aggressively initiated through offering of tribulation as reward for faithfulness.
It seems to me that the best course is to teach the truth, which is that we don’t know precisely how it will play out, then focus on being ready for all situations, and through which actions such should be done, of which I believe your list is a good one.
I may be wrong, but this is effectively a tactical discussion toward what actions might promote the best outcome, and not so much one of being right or wrong on dogma. My dogmatic stance is “I dunno! One of them, surely.”
I would like to add that the timeline on which these things would likely happen is not around Christmas, Easter, or some random time where “season” is meant in a generic “chaos/uncertainty abounds” sense, but likely would be a season of one of the biblical feasts (of Exodus/Deut - “for all your generations”), which do have a history of being tied to prophetic events unfolding.
Not a bad thing. I want to make sure everyone in this thread understands I mean absolutly no division. Sometimes this subject can cause people to get argumentitive and I do not wish that in any way whatsoever. The Gosple of Grace is the only thing I will argue to my death. Thats what matters most. Jesus was the Creator God in human flesh whos blood was shed as the final sacrifice for all who would believe and 3 days after his body was layed to rest in the tomb, he was seen by hundreds of people walking and talking just like you and I. He was raised from the Dead. Now as far as eschotology goes, I can prove in scripture how the Calling up (rapture) happens after tribulation just befor God pours out his wrath upon the earth. That ONE day where the dead in Christ are risen, The Day of the Lord takes place, The Day Christ returns and Gathers his Elect (The Church {Spiritual Israel} not the Jews) To meet him in the Clouds (not the clouds in the sky but the cloud of dust as an army rushing across the sandy desert to battle) to destroy the enemy and pour out the wrath of God upon all that Rejected him. There is timeline that is repeted multiple times in scripture that tells us exatly the season. No man will know the day or the hour, not even Christ himself, but the Father in Heaven, But he did promise us that we would know the season that we would be prepared as it approaches and that specific events must take place before that day comes. Christ himself gave the timeline. And that timeline was prophesied thousands of years before Christ walked on earth in the Flesh. You can believe however you want, but I dont want people to get caught unawares because they believe they will escape tribulation therefore not being preparted to edure that tribulation until the end.
Word. I don’t intend any division either (though perhaps am unintentionally so on occasion), just chewing on tactics - as even the apostles did in Acts (15:2 - there was no small disputation with them).
They crucified Christ for it And Crucified Peter upsidedown for it and Paul was absolooply tormented and well we all know what happened to John. They hated their speech and no matter how nice they were about it, when you tell someone it is a sin to be a fag then they gonna get offended cause you know they like diddling. IYKYK
If the “rapture”, or rather, going to meet Yeshua in the clouds, is post- or mid- tribulation, anyone waiting on a pre-trib rapture to let us skip the hard parts is going to be woefully underprepared.
Does pre-trib mean we should be getting ready spiritually? Sure. So does the fact that we could die at any time. Only the other two offer a suggestion of being prepared otherwise. The meek inheriting the earth also seems to imply that we are still here afterward.
Basically, there’s neither functional nor spiritual value in believing in a pre-trib rapture other than comfort. If it happens, great! I can’t say it’s certainly false. If it doesn’t happen, however….
I’ve been thinking about your reply and I don’t it’s rooted the right premise. Christians who are watching and waiting on the Lord’s appearance shouldn’t be thought of as sitting on their hands unprepared for what might come. I feel it’s the opposite. If your focus is on Jesus and his teachings then you should be wise as a viper. Always hoping for the best but maintaining your armor of God to be prepared for the worst.
It would go against Jesus’ teachings to not be prepared for tribulation, even Jacob’s trouble, the great tribulation. A Christian’s core goal is to endure and occupy with love until His arrival. It’s hard for me to fathom a true believer being caught off guard. For if it were possible, even the elect would be deceived.
I don’t think your argument stands. There is no harm whatsoever believing in pre-trib for the faithful. On the contrary it is hope and anticipation that heals and sustains us.
Edit: spelling.
I agree with all the things you have pointed out that we should do.
If those things are held, and fastly, then there is no benefit to believing in any of the three (pre/mid/post), and any such efforts would be best suited as exploring hypotheticals, while attending more focus on those things you have pointed out:
If those things are kept, then any firm position on rapture becomes irrelevant. If we are caught up, we are caught up, and if not, we are prepared as best as we can be.
Where my concern comes in is with those who are weaker in faith, for whom, really either position as dogma could become a stumbling block. The weak in faith may put his hopes into being caught up to avoid tribulation, though the servant is not greater than the master, but also the weak in faith may become discouraged by being aggressively initiated through offering of tribulation as reward for faithfulness.
It seems to me that the best course is to teach the truth, which is that we don’t know precisely how it will play out, then focus on being ready for all situations, and through which actions such should be done, of which I believe your list is a good one.
I may be wrong, but this is effectively a tactical discussion toward what actions might promote the best outcome, and not so much one of being right or wrong on dogma. My dogmatic stance is “I dunno! One of them, surely.”
I would like to add that the timeline on which these things would likely happen is not around Christmas, Easter, or some random time where “season” is meant in a generic “chaos/uncertainty abounds” sense, but likely would be a season of one of the biblical feasts (of Exodus/Deut - “for all your generations”), which do have a history of being tied to prophetic events unfolding.
Excellent Comment Fren!
Not a bad thing. I want to make sure everyone in this thread understands I mean absolutly no division. Sometimes this subject can cause people to get argumentitive and I do not wish that in any way whatsoever. The Gosple of Grace is the only thing I will argue to my death. Thats what matters most. Jesus was the Creator God in human flesh whos blood was shed as the final sacrifice for all who would believe and 3 days after his body was layed to rest in the tomb, he was seen by hundreds of people walking and talking just like you and I. He was raised from the Dead. Now as far as eschotology goes, I can prove in scripture how the Calling up (rapture) happens after tribulation just befor God pours out his wrath upon the earth. That ONE day where the dead in Christ are risen, The Day of the Lord takes place, The Day Christ returns and Gathers his Elect (The Church {Spiritual Israel} not the Jews) To meet him in the Clouds (not the clouds in the sky but the cloud of dust as an army rushing across the sandy desert to battle) to destroy the enemy and pour out the wrath of God upon all that Rejected him. There is timeline that is repeted multiple times in scripture that tells us exatly the season. No man will know the day or the hour, not even Christ himself, but the Father in Heaven, But he did promise us that we would know the season that we would be prepared as it approaches and that specific events must take place before that day comes. Christ himself gave the timeline. And that timeline was prophesied thousands of years before Christ walked on earth in the Flesh. You can believe however you want, but I dont want people to get caught unawares because they believe they will escape tribulation therefore not being preparted to edure that tribulation until the end.
Word. I don’t intend any division either (though perhaps am unintentionally so on occasion), just chewing on tactics - as even the apostles did in Acts (15:2 - there was no small disputation with them).
They crucified Christ for it And Crucified Peter upsidedown for it and Paul was absolooply tormented and well we all know what happened to John. They hated their speech and no matter how nice they were about it, when you tell someone it is a sin to be a fag then they gonna get offended cause you know they like diddling. IYKYK