SovCit stuff is just a bunch of misinterpretations, wishful/magical thinking, and tons of conflicting messaging.
None of it has ever actually been upheld in a court of law. The few times someone has been able to point to an example of some sovcit person "winning" a case, it's usually either a technicality that has nothing to do with sovcit stuff, or is just the court saying it's not worth their time.
There's a whole psychology going on with people that get heavily invested in this, but it basically boils down to a) it feels like a fun game finding all these super secret clues b) it makes people feel like they're smarter than everyone else for finding them c) it gives them the sense that there is actually some sort of sense to the universe and that what is happening is being planned. There are many people who seriously can not cope with the idea that shit just happens and we don't really have control of much of what is going on with our lives.
And there's just the very basic logical contradictions that seem to fly right over their heads.
How do you call yourself a Patriot, fly the flag, and celebrate American greatness while at the same time believing America has secretly been under British corporate control for 150 years?
If it's all fraudulent foreign jurisdiction, participating legitimizes and funds the "enemy." Consistent patriots would fully withdraw (which sovcits sometimes try, and usually fail spectacularly in court).
If the Revolution was meaningless and Britain still rules, why wave the flag, sing the anthem, or call yourself a patriot for a "fake" nation? True patriots wouldn't concede eternal subjugation.
Real sovereignty wouldn't require playing by the oppressor's rules or staging cage fights for "acquiescence." The Founders didn't consult British maritime law or Freemasonic rituals to declare independence. They asserted natural rights and fought. Needing the King's witnesses or G7 acknowledgment concedes ongoing legitimacy to the very system being rejected.
If individual sovereignty is real and the Constitution/law of the land still exists for some, why doesn't it apply nationally? Why wait for Trump, UFC, or prayers? The Founders didn't need personal "redemption" schemes.
An all powerful God needing UFC fights, octagon symbolism, or Masonic countermeasures to reclaim a nation strains credulity. The Founders relied on reason, arms, and faith, not hidden admiralty loopholes.
Thanks. The sad thing is that I 100% understand the appeal it has to people. Especially the ones who get sucked into it because they fall for one of those "Have your mortgage erased by using these tactics!" type blog posts.
I first came across this stuff about 10-15 years ago when one of my co-workers got deep into it and thought they were going to get out of having to pay their mortgage and credit card bills because their name on their birth certifcate was in capital letters and all sorts of other such nonsense.
Desperation really can make people believe the most ridiculous things.
PS, my co-worker lost their house to foreclosure and had to declare bankruptcy due to all the credit card debt they racked up, thinking they wouldn't have to pay it back. Not surprising in the least.
How many times have we been told this is a spiritual battle? Indeed, Hollywood, the pervayor of predictive programming is releasing the Spielberg movie which he claims will make the flock abandon Jesus. Few knew that demons must warn victims of their plans and victims don't object to the esoteric warning, so they concent.
Wonder what's in the Odyssey besides DEI.
The supernatural is involved in this. Next year, at Easter, Mel Gibson will release "The Resurrection". Just watched a very long presentation about the unusual happenings during the filming of The Passion. What's coming next year is the what and how Jesus conquered death and what He did during the three days. It all starts with the war in Heaven and the fallen angels.
The unseen has rules and few of us doubt the devil is on a rampage.
That's not Ignoratio Elenchi. The claim being made is that spiritual warfare, national sovereignty, and God's jurisdiction are somehow dependent on fringe on flags, admiralty symbolism, and ritual spectacle. I'm questioning the connection itself.
If the mechanism matters, explain the mechanism. How does decorative trim on a flag affect a spiritual battle? Simply naming a fallacy isn't an argument.
yes^ that's exactly how Derek Prince refers to them.
AI overview-
The "Prince Version" of Ephesians 6:12
"Drawing on his academic background in classical Greek, Prince heavily utilized a phrasing found in The Living Bible translation of Ephesians 6:12 to reframe how Christians view spiritual warfare:The Concept: He taught that humanity's true adversaries are not flesh-and-blood people, but rather disembodied, individual personalities.The Enemy Hierarchy: This network of "persons without bodies" includes Satan, localized evil spirits, and cosmic principalities operating in the unseen world."
He's fascinating to listen to and has a lot of videos on the subject.
Using the term Sovereign Citizen reveals your ignorance of that world of thought. There are very real legal chains that bind us and I interface with people that have broken them. It takes a lot of drive and effort. Can you be a patriot without fighting and winning that battle? Yes. Can you be free as God truly created and intended you to be without fighting and winning that battle? No. To clarify, I am speaking of your physical earthly freedom. Not your spiritual freedom given by Jesus through faith.
The problem is for every one of those people there are thousands of ignorant surface level low effort lurkers in the movement that are walking disaster scenes all over the internet.
Then identify them specifically. Which legal chains? Which statutes, cases, treaties, or doctrines are you referring to? Because the discussion wasn't about whether governments exercise authority. It was about claims regarding admiralty law, fringe on flags, and ritual consent through public spectacles.
"There are real legal chains" is a different claim from "a UFC fight creates national consent under admiralty law." I'm asking for evidence of the latter.
a UFC fight creates national consent under admiralty law.
I never stated or implied that a UFC fight means anything. My original comment was refuting a UFC fight, or any other ritual, OPs description of it, meaning anything to anyone other than someone that prescribes to that belief system.
Fair enough. If we're talking about symbolism, that's one discussion.
If we're talking about actual legal effects under admiralty law, that's a completely different discussion. The OP is making legal claims, not merely symbolic ones.
SovCit stuff is just a bunch of misinterpretations, wishful/magical thinking, and tons of conflicting messaging.
None of it has ever actually been upheld in a court of law. The few times someone has been able to point to an example of some sovcit person "winning" a case, it's usually either a technicality that has nothing to do with sovcit stuff, or is just the court saying it's not worth their time.
There's a whole psychology going on with people that get heavily invested in this, but it basically boils down to a) it feels like a fun game finding all these super secret clues b) it makes people feel like they're smarter than everyone else for finding them c) it gives them the sense that there is actually some sort of sense to the universe and that what is happening is being planned. There are many people who seriously can not cope with the idea that shit just happens and we don't really have control of much of what is going on with our lives.
And there's just the very basic logical contradictions that seem to fly right over their heads.
How do you call yourself a Patriot, fly the flag, and celebrate American greatness while at the same time believing America has secretly been under British corporate control for 150 years?
If it's all fraudulent foreign jurisdiction, participating legitimizes and funds the "enemy." Consistent patriots would fully withdraw (which sovcits sometimes try, and usually fail spectacularly in court).
If the Revolution was meaningless and Britain still rules, why wave the flag, sing the anthem, or call yourself a patriot for a "fake" nation? True patriots wouldn't concede eternal subjugation.
Real sovereignty wouldn't require playing by the oppressor's rules or staging cage fights for "acquiescence." The Founders didn't consult British maritime law or Freemasonic rituals to declare independence. They asserted natural rights and fought. Needing the King's witnesses or G7 acknowledgment concedes ongoing legitimacy to the very system being rejected.
If individual sovereignty is real and the Constitution/law of the land still exists for some, why doesn't it apply nationally? Why wait for Trump, UFC, or prayers? The Founders didn't need personal "redemption" schemes.
An all powerful God needing UFC fights, octagon symbolism, or Masonic countermeasures to reclaim a nation strains credulity. The Founders relied on reason, arms, and faith, not hidden admiralty loopholes.
The contradictions are tough for me to overlook.
Good on you for using your critical thinking instead of getting high on words. The second hand embarrassment can be intense around here.
Thanks. The sad thing is that I 100% understand the appeal it has to people. Especially the ones who get sucked into it because they fall for one of those "Have your mortgage erased by using these tactics!" type blog posts.
I first came across this stuff about 10-15 years ago when one of my co-workers got deep into it and thought they were going to get out of having to pay their mortgage and credit card bills because their name on their birth certifcate was in capital letters and all sorts of other such nonsense.
Desperation really can make people believe the most ridiculous things.
PS, my co-worker lost their house to foreclosure and had to declare bankruptcy due to all the credit card debt they racked up, thinking they wouldn't have to pay it back. Not surprising in the least.
How many times have we been told this is a spiritual battle? Indeed, Hollywood, the pervayor of predictive programming is releasing the Spielberg movie which he claims will make the flock abandon Jesus. Few knew that demons must warn victims of their plans and victims don't object to the esoteric warning, so they concent.
Wonder what's in the Odyssey besides DEI.
The supernatural is involved in this. Next year, at Easter, Mel Gibson will release "The Resurrection". Just watched a very long presentation about the unusual happenings during the filming of The Passion. What's coming next year is the what and how Jesus conquered death and what He did during the three days. It all starts with the war in Heaven and the fallen angels.
The unseen has rules and few of us doubt the devil is on a rampage.
Spiritual battles don't hinge on if a flag has fringe or not.
Awww, the old logical fallacy Ignoratio Elenchi (missing the point) or a Red Herring.
That's not Ignoratio Elenchi. The claim being made is that spiritual warfare, national sovereignty, and God's jurisdiction are somehow dependent on fringe on flags, admiralty symbolism, and ritual spectacle. I'm questioning the connection itself.
If the mechanism matters, explain the mechanism. How does decorative trim on a flag affect a spiritual battle? Simply naming a fallacy isn't an argument.
For we are not fighting against people made of flesh and blood, but against persons without bodies ?
yes^ that's exactly how Derek Prince refers to them.
AI overview-
The "Prince Version" of Ephesians 6:12
"Drawing on his academic background in classical Greek, Prince heavily utilized a phrasing found in The Living Bible translation of Ephesians 6:12 to reframe how Christians view spiritual warfare:The Concept: He taught that humanity's true adversaries are not flesh-and-blood people, but rather disembodied, individual personalities.The Enemy Hierarchy: This network of "persons without bodies" includes Satan, localized evil spirits, and cosmic principalities operating in the unseen world."
He's fascinating to listen to and has a lot of videos on the subject.
Ephesians 6-12 ?
Using the term Sovereign Citizen reveals your ignorance of that world of thought. There are very real legal chains that bind us and I interface with people that have broken them. It takes a lot of drive and effort. Can you be a patriot without fighting and winning that battle? Yes. Can you be free as God truly created and intended you to be without fighting and winning that battle? No. To clarify, I am speaking of your physical earthly freedom. Not your spiritual freedom given by Jesus through faith.
The problem is for every one of those people there are thousands of ignorant surface level low effort lurkers in the movement that are walking disaster scenes all over the internet.
Then identify them specifically. Which legal chains? Which statutes, cases, treaties, or doctrines are you referring to? Because the discussion wasn't about whether governments exercise authority. It was about claims regarding admiralty law, fringe on flags, and ritual consent through public spectacles.
"There are real legal chains" is a different claim from "a UFC fight creates national consent under admiralty law." I'm asking for evidence of the latter.
I never stated or implied that a UFC fight means anything. My original comment was refuting a UFC fight, or any other ritual, OPs description of it, meaning anything to anyone other than someone that prescribes to that belief system.
Fair enough. If we're talking about symbolism, that's one discussion. If we're talking about actual legal effects under admiralty law, that's a completely different discussion. The OP is making legal claims, not merely symbolic ones.