How about THIS strangeness coming from NBC NEWS? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/former-us-officials-secret-ukraine-talks-russians-war-ukraine-rcna92610
July 6, 2023, 6:02 AM EDT By Josh Lederman LONDON — ** A group of former senior U.S. national security officials have held secret talks with prominent Russians believed to be close to the Kremlin** — and, in at least one case, with the country’s top diplomat — with the aim of laying the groundwork for potential negotiations to end the war in Ukraine, half a dozen people briefed on the discussions told NBC News.
In a high-level example of the back-channel diplomacy taking place behind the scenes, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov met with members of the group for several hours in April in New York, four former officials and two current officials told NBC News.
On the agenda of the April meeting were some of the thorniest issues in the war in Ukraine, like the fate of Russian-held territory that Ukraine may never be able to liberate, and the search for an elusive diplomatic off-ramp that could be tolerable to both sides.
Sitting down with Lavrov were Richard Haass, a former diplomat and the outgoing president of the Council on Foreign Relations, current and former officials said. The group was joined by Europe expert Charles Kupchan and Russia expert Thomas Graham, both former White House and State Department officials who are Council on Foreign Relations fellows.
The former U.S. officials involved either did not respond to requests for comment from NBC News or declined to comment on the record. All of the sources declined to be named in order to confirm talks that were intended to be kept confidential.
Among the goals, they said, is to keep channels of communication with Russia open where possible and to feel out where there might be room for future negotiation, compromise and diplomacy over ending the war.
The discussions have taken place with the knowledge of the Biden administration, but [allegedly]not at its direction, with the former officials involved in the Lavrov meeting briefing the White House National Security Council afterward about what transpired, two of the sources said.
The discussions are known in diplomatic parlance as “Track Two diplomacy,” a form of unofficial engagement involving private citizens not currently in government — or in the case of the Lavrov meeting, “Track 1.5,” meaning current officials are involved on one end of the conversation. They come as formal, high-level diplomatic engagements between the U.S. and Russian governments over Ukraine have been few and far between.
It is not clear how frequently the backchannel discussions have taken place, nor whether they’re part of a single, organized effort. [Any time above ONE is ONE TOO MANY IMO....]
But on the American side, the discussions have involved some former Pentagon officials, including Mary Beth Long, a former U.S. assistant defense secretary with deep experience in NATO issues, according to two people briefed on the talks.
As part of the effort, at least one former U.S. official has traveled to Russia for discussions involving the Ukraine war, two of the individuals said.
Aside from Lavrov on the Russian side, the discussions have involved academics, leaders from major think tanks or research institutes and others in the Russian foreign policy sphere perceived as having President Vladimir Putin’s ear or being in regular touch with Kremlin decision-makers, the sources said. The individuals declined to identify the Russian participants by name, citing concerns for their safety.
A spokesman for the White House National Security Council declined to comment. ** Russia’s Embassy in Washington did not respond to a request for comment.**
An official in the office of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said they would not comment on specific news reports based on unnamed sources, but their overall position remained the same.
“Our position is unchanged — the fate of Ukraine cannot be decided without Ukraine. Many times the president and all our official speakers spoke about it. Not anonymously, but quite specifically and publicly,” they said.
The talks come amid mounting signs that the U.S. and its allies are eager to see Moscow and Kyiv move toward peace talks in the fall, after the completion of Ukraine’s ongoing counteroffensive.
During a secret trip to Kyiv in May, CIA Director William Burns heard from Ukrainian officials about the prospect of pushing Moscow into peace talks by year’s end, officials told The Washington Post. Next week, President Joe Biden will meet in Lithuania with fellow NATO leaders, who are signaling they’re still not ready to admit Ukraine into the alliance. And the approaching U.S. presidential election has raised the urgency around the war’s endgame amid concerns Republicans will reduce support for Ukraine.
The Lavrov meeting in April took place during a rare and brief visit by the Russian diplomat to the U.S. to chair the U.N. Security Council, which has a rotating presidency.
Around the same time Haass and Kupchan wrote a lengthy article in Foreign Affairs, which is published by the Council on Foreign Relations, laying out what they described as “a plan for getting from the battlefield to the negotiating table.”
In the piece, titled “The West Needs a New Strategy in Ukraine,” Haass and Kupchan predicted a likely stalemate would emerge following Ukraine’s counteroffensive, and recommended that the U.S. start laying the groundwork to propose a cease-fire in which both Russia and Ukraine would pull forces back from the front line, “effectively creating a demilitarized zone.”
“A neutral organization — either the UN or the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe — would send in observers to monitor and enforce the cease-fire and pullback,” the former U.S. officials wrote. “Assuming a cease-fire holds, peace talks should follow.”
A key question is whether the former U.S. officials will continue talks following last month’s armed rebellion against Putin’s government by Wagner mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin, which muddied the picture of how power and influence are flowing in Moscow. The discussions have also been occurring in parallel with direct U.S.-Russian conversations about detained American journalist Evan Gershkovich that were revealed by Putin’s spokesman this week.
Rebel mercenary leader Yevgeny Prigozhin who sent his fighters to topple the military leaders in Moscow will leave for Belarus and a criminal case against him will be dropped as part of a deal to avoid "bloodshed," the Kremlin said on June 24.
Track Two talks have long played an important role in U.S. diplomacy, including on arms control, often providing a less formal opportunity to test out ideas and responses in parallel to official talks between governments.
In 1994, former President Jimmy Carter traveled to Pyongyang, North Korea, as a private citizen aimed at halting North Korea’s nuclear program — a trip that became a major headache for the Clinton administration. Track Two talks between Israelis and Palestinians were also credited with creating the conditions that led to the 1993 Oslo Accords.
Yet in the context of the Ukraine war, the notion of former U.S. officials engaging informally with Russians has caused a divide within the community of American diplomats, foreign policy scholars and national security professionals.
“I worry about what messages might be conveyed with that and the implicit signal that we’re desperate for a deal,” said Bradley Bowman, a former U.S. Army officer and Senate aide who studies political-military issues at the Washington-based Foundation for Defense of Democracies. “Right now what we really want to do is isolate and put pressure on Putin.”
Michael McFaul, who was U.S. ambassador to Russia in the Obama administration, said he was skeptical that there are any suitable Track Two surrogates in Russia these days who have direct access to Putin and could serve as informal intermediaries.
And discussing solutions to the war without Ukrainians at the table could undercut the Biden administration’s insistence that Ukraine’s future won’t be decided by backroom deals between major powers, he said.
“If you’re having Track Two negotiations about how to end the war, Ukrainians have to be there,” said McFaul, who said he is not involved in the Track Two discussions.
Matt Dimmick, a former Russia and Eastern Europe director at the National Security Council, said that even discussing potential deals with Russia without Ukraine taking the lead could ultimately undercut Kyiv’s leverage.
“Ukraine doesn’t need and want intermediaries to start coming in and crafting cease-fire solutions and then enticing Europe and the U.S. to elbow Ukraine in that direction,” Dimmick said. “Ukraine realizes their path to a secure future is driving right through Russian defenses and leaving Russia no choice but to come up with their own way out of Ukraine.”
Josh Lederman and Yuliya Talmazan reported from London, Carol E. Lee reported from Washington, and Daryna Mayer reported from Kyiv.
--30 -- My comments below:
These "Track Two (or 1.5) talks" sound more like COLLUSION WITH RUSSIANS than ANYTHING Donald Trump did while POTUS -- and yet Trump has been blamed for "Russian Collusion" when it's clearly THE DEMOCRATS that are continuing their ongoing RUSSIAN COLLUSION 24 / 7 / 365!!!! Shouldn't this RUSSIAN COLLUSION be MORE THAN ENOUGH TO IMPEACH BIDEN / HARRIS, etc. and throw out the rest of the Biden Administration's appointees in the National Security Council, etc.? And note the involvement of the usual boogeyman-- THE COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS -- in all this C R A P.... This is SOOOOO FRUSTRATING that AMERICANS ARE SO BLIND TO What the Bidenistas are doing overtly, covertly, and in any other way they can imagine to make America a LAUGHING STOCK (while projecting that stuff to what Trump did) -- Trump is clearly a GENIUS compared to SENILE JOE....
Not only are the Bidenistas trying to screw the Ukraine (which IMO deserves to be screwed since they have more in common with RUSSIA -- as in the Kievan RUS who created "the Ukraine" -- than the Confederate States of America did with the non-Confederate States of America during the Civil War era), they are also putting AMERICAN INTERESTS in some form of DANGER AS WELL.... Enough is enough is enough! Stop the Russian Collusion by impeaching Biden, Harris, etc. NOW!!!!!
They managed to survive without "animal husbandry", etc. for thousands of years WITHOUT HUMAN INTERVENTIONS -- methinks that they would have survived without human intervention on this very earth had the concept of animal husbandry never occurred to "cave dwellers" or "hunter - gatherers" way back when....
Just remember that Taiwan is the UKRAINE of ASIA -- a FALSE nation created by LOSERS after the Communist takeover of the rest of China in 1949 (Ukraine was also a similar "breakaway nation" going back to around the 1860s or so in its modern form). Unfortunately for those who want to promote "democracy" over there, the Chinese (AKA Oriental) mind has been virtually BRED to accept emperors and other forms of totalitarianism for close to 5000 years, thus they are actually better off under communism than a people with a Western mindset would be.... As Russia should have been allowed to simply RECLAIM ITS PROPER TERRITORY in the UKRAINE, so too should China be allowed to reclaim its territory on the island of FORMOSA....
Q Drop 337:"Estimated 4 - 6 % we consider 'hopeless' and forever brainwashed." Q Drop 529: "4 - 6% LOST FOREVER" Q Drop 3029: "4 - 6% [brainwashed] will never wake up even when presented w/FACTS:
Via John Croom on Facebook -- approximately one month ago at the KRQENEWS page (FYI)
Actually, I think UBL did have his death accomplished way before his death was reported-- so that he could be REPLACED by someone more to the Zionists' liking WAY BEFORE 9/11 (that's why no body was sent to the US for identification -- the truth about the REPLACEMENT of OSAMA BEN LADIN with a JEWISH IMPERSONATOR would have ben revelaed to the ENTOIRE WORLD. The key to figuring out that this happened was Fox News started refering to him as USAma BIN LADEN (which was really a code for a BEN LADIN -- alias a JEWISH AGENT from the USA[!], since the proper spelling of the imposter's code name would reveal that Jewishness -- because 'ben' is the participle meaning 'son of' in Hebrew, while the same participle is pronounced 'bin' in Arabic, thus 'Bin Laden' in Arabic = the Jewish BEN LADIN).... Also remember that no body = no way to use all that DNA analysis or 'facial recognition' stuff (which can probably be fooled by plastic surgery on the micro level as necessary) -- why else would the military have NOT insured that such forensic analysis was done on his body prior to burial (unless they already knew that 'UBL' was a JEWISH IMPOSTER)????
As for Saddam (and the WMDs, which we KNOW had to have existed at one time since the Bush 41 Administration, if not before then, had SOLD THEM TO HIM!), it is my opinion that during the first Gulf War the Israelis used the cover of the war to purloin them for themselves -- and eventually used them on the Palestinians in Gaza during the intifada of 2004 / 2005. Of course, by the time a "search" for those WMDs was initiated in Iraq, they were long gone (except for a few traces left behind in the Israeli attempts to high tail it out of Iraq), since the Israelis became the US's WMD "vacuum cleaner"....
"McConnell and the Rhinos won't lift a finger to counter the Dems 'Voting Rights Attacked' narrative" -- for several reasons:
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When it comes to "election security", sometimes your best offense is doing what the Dems do, but DOING IT BETTER. How do you think Trump won the first time? It wasn't by "voter suppression" (all that does is limit the amount of ake names that can be acribed to votes AFTER THE FACT)-- it was by countering the vote INFLATION of the Democrats with some of their own to restore the proper balance. Just like NYC added 130,000 "test ballots" to the Democratic Mayoral Primary, we need to add at least that many FAKE VOTES to counter THEIR FAKE VOTES (since with electronic balloting and electronic signatures, there is no realway to challenge the 'authenticity' of a given vote AFTER THE FACT). This is why the pool of FAKE VOTERS has to be DRAINED (like the rest of THE SWAMP).... And you do that by doing what the Democrats call "voter suppression", but it is really FAKE VOTER ELIMINATION....
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Even if there was real "voter suppression" out there, most of it would STILL be justified because the requirements for voting should IMPLY having some degree of political intelligence above being in a coma.... People SHOULD have an idea of WTF they are voting for (nationally, state wide and locally) -- and if necessary, taxes may have to go up to (indirectly) pay for education and testing about the election and governmental processt (since a dedicated "poll tax" to pay for LEGITIMATE TEST EXPENSES was unfortunately delcared "unconstitutional" by the feckless "Supreme Court" a while back). If you as a would be voter have no clue what your mayor -- or city council -- or state governor / legislative branch* -- or even the three branches of the Federal Government (not counting the unconstitutional American Administrative DEEP STATE) are supposed to do, then you SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO VOTE for those people who are going to be holding those offices-- period. And since there are ZERO Federally kept voting records (an error that should be fixed by making the already existing FEDERAL ELECTION COMMISSION in charge of all elections for the Executive and Legislative Branches of the Federal government, while a given STATE should run its own SEPARATE elections for STATEWIDE OFFICES and localities should run SEPARATE ELECTIONS for local officials, which need not be on the Federal "Election Day"), there is not much that Congress can do -- except truly separating ELECTION POWER across their proper jurisdictions as I have proposed....
*Especially as was done in NY regarding this idiotic "ranked choice voting" VOTE FIXING SCHEME that advocates enticed the people of NY City (and State?) to approve while conveniently neglecting to EXPLAIN IT TO ANY ONE [even to themselves it seems; why else add 130,000 "test votes" to an already mixed up vote mix?]. As a result, this process should be THROWN OUT by acourt with any COMMON SENSE as being truly DISCRIMINATORY against the DUMB people who the Dems claim to be "helping".) Of course, Democrats (or should I say DUM-OCRATS) can't stand the truth being thrown into their faces; they'd rather keep the masses VIRTUALLY BRAIN DEAD and have them just go down their line instead of what would be better for them -- to actually THINK before you even consider voting for a Democrat in today's America....
Source????? Can't find such a comment....
Howwevr, I found THIS set of opinion pieces from the publication "Foreign Affairs" -- which is an apologist for the actions of Ukraine, and who is on the side of nothing less than a Ukranian victory and a "Post-Putin" Russia): https://www.foreignaffairs.com/responses/should-america-push-ukraine-negotiate-russia-end-war. This should tell you what the WARMONGER side thinks about the fight for the Ukraine....