Full disclaimer: I am 100 percent against 2A restrictions and am a God-fearing, 2A supporting Fren and American citizen. I feel that the buck stops at the (Constitutional) law for politicians trying to say otherwise.
That said...
You know, I have at first considered the idea of training courses as proper protocol for responsible ownership an infringment of 2A, but the more I think about it, the more I feel that things like this would at least be compromise measures that would at least say
"Look, we can't stop criminals from possessing guns and committing evil acts; so in essence if we give everyone firearms training and open carry, it will say that we've given people a framework of responsibility so that no excuses can be made about "the evil guns" when we know it's really the evil people that are going to do this stuff regardless, and that we shouldn't blame responsible gun owners who we have proven are trained how to use their tools".
Because you know the gun-grabbers don't respect the 2A and will do anything to restrict peoples' ability to defend themselves.
I know that this will probably receive some downvotes (I understand why, too, and don't disagree); but I'm just trying to think of constructive alternatives and use a bit of devil's advocate-style thinking.
The reason of guns or encryption or any other such tools shall be still available and necessary in free society is: criminals and governments will have it no matter what the law is.
Simply outlawing "dangerous tools" mean that only dangerous people will have it,and good people will be left defenceless against enemies - internal and external.
It is a good thing that my rights are immune to government, your opinion, and your willing to compromise the rights of others.
When you understand that all rights are bestowed upon each individual as a gift from our Creator then you come to realize that no other authority has any say in your exercise of those rights. There are consequences for infringing upon the rights of others. There are consequences for injuring others. There are consequences for wrongfully taking the life of another. There are consequences for damaging or taking the property of others.
So, knowing those facts, how can you advocate anything other than personal responsibility and consequences for poor decisions of bad acts?
Government has no legitimate power or authority to infringe on any of my rights, let alone the very right meant to allow me to defend my life, my property, my family, and my freedom.
I get where you’re coming from you think everyone should know how to use their guns. ... Ok so what about the people who grew up with guns and parents showed them how to use them responsibly all their lives or like in mine & my kids cases .. my husband who is retired military & in LE for many many yrs & has firearm training experience, teaches us how to use our guns responsibly.... would we be expected to Pay someone else to teach us how to responsibly use our guns? Just so we’d have a piece of paper saying we took a course? I already have my conceal carry permit. Are they going to take that away next because I didn’t take a course?
Are all of those personal inconveniences more important to you than potentially turning this sinking ship into a raft? I don'tean this to be judgemental; o totally get just keeping what you have and not being bothered. That's your choice, and that's okay.
People will have different thresholds but I've always been supportive of finding useful, realistic if not slightly mad plans for restoring Americans' 2A rights. I would get an inconvenient training so that more people would be defending themselves and wrestling a powerful tool away from the MSM/TPTB.
They won’t come after our guns! Especially not here in the south, they will have a fight on their hands, anyone willing to go to people’s homes to grab guns or ammo because people didn’t take a class is either stupid or suicidal. You may want to give in & give a little but many are not willing to give an inch. And I don’t believe our LE will entertain this nonsense. Many people were practically born with a gun in their hands, they don’t need a class by a person that who knows where they got their training & “ideas” from. I can see if a person never handled a gun before and wanted to take a class then that’s their choice. But not everyone is like that. I’m not trying to be or sound ugly, I’m just giving you the other side of how others will feel compared to what you are suggesting.
I think sane gun control measures are needed. If not what they'll eventually do is just outlaw the sale of ammunition. Outlaw gun stores. Outlaw the sale of gun parts. Outlaw private sales of guns. So that they won't have to go door to door taking guns... they will just kill it off in one slow burn. You can keep your guns and ammo but after multiple generations 95% of it will be unusable and people will have lost interest.
So I think maybe having psychological tests for new gun owners would be a good thing. Maybe make people spend an hour with a trained psychiatrist. Personally I don't think that's such a crazy qualification to add. We make people go through WAY more hoops to drive a car which is a much less dangerous tool.
You go right on ahead with your psychiatrist if you want be my guest. But I won't pay for one and many others won't either. Not going to change my mind on this, so if you want to give up your rights go ahead. I'm a stubborn person, the more you try to convince me, the more I will not go along. You few that have been hounding me about this can all give up your rights and message each other about it. I'm done discussing this with you. Have a nice night.
Psychology is pseudoscience and filled with leftists. I would never pay to help that profession get inside your head. You are basically handing over your gun rights to a pseudoscience who is going to make more money by saying you aren't sane enough to own a gun and oh by the way you need some anti psychotic to fuck up your brain too. You may as well hand over your guns to the state. Same difference imo.
These are the people involved in monarch programming.
I understand your point but what I'm saying here is that there are most likely going to be changes coming regardless and I think helping stop guns getting in the hands of crazy people will help stem mass shooting which in turn will help stem even worse gun control methods. These politicians are not stupid and will come up with laws to circumvent the 2nd amendment
Your car isnt a right.perhaps you should take a goverment psychological test to heavy permission to post on the internet or attend the school or church or club of your choice.
Agreed; too much can go wrong giving a governing body an authority over citizens arming themselves.
I suppose I enjoy the thought experiment of possible solutions like this but until there is more accountability and transparency in government (if that ever happens -- though I have faith as we watch these 'coincidental' events pile up) it's a non-starter.
Nope, any restrictions is an open door for them. Not being trained doesn't cause mass shootings. Accidents yes, do I believe in training, yes, as a condition to own a gun...no.
Open carry is dangerous. It's a good way to get yourself hit over the head from behind and robbed.
What people need to do is conceal carry, and ignore the laws. Everyone needs to buy a sidearm and conceal carry it. If you are a criminal then you will eventually get thrown up against the wall and searched for robbing a 7-11. But if you do not rob 7-11's then you will not have that problem.
For the same reason Satan tempts us when we are discouraged. We are more likely to give in if we think we are defeated. Perfect Love Casts Out All Fear. They foster hate and fear because it is all they can do. We can overcome it all, but we need to focus on preparing ourselves (LordKekingtonEsquire has a great idea, toward the top of the thread) spiritually, mentally and physically.
Usama Bin Laden, There may be a variety of reasons he was killed rather than simply captured. Maybe someone else has some insight on this. As far as WW1 and WW2 are concerned, there are sites that have more insight than you'll find in places like wikipedia and government sites. The Zero Aggression Project site is one of my favorites for history. WW1 and WW2 were both wars essentially fought over nothing, and we entered them not for moral reasons, but for 'empire building' purposes:
https://www.zeroaggressionproject.org/defense/history-lesson-u-s-military-force-good-evil/
Why don't conservatives push for gun safety training and open carry after tragic incidents?
Full disclaimer: I am 100 percent against 2A restrictions and am a God-fearing, 2A supporting Fren and American citizen. I feel that the buck stops at the (Constitutional) law for politicians trying to say otherwise.
That said...
You know, I have at first considered the idea of training courses as proper protocol for responsible ownership an infringment of 2A, but the more I think about it, the more I feel that things like this would at least be compromise measures that would at least say
"Look, we can't stop criminals from possessing guns and committing evil acts; so in essence if we give everyone firearms training and open carry, it will say that we've given people a framework of responsibility so that no excuses can be made about "the evil guns" when we know it's really the evil people that are going to do this stuff regardless, and that we shouldn't blame responsible gun owners who we have proven are trained how to use their tools".
Because you know the gun-grabbers don't respect the 2A and will do anything to restrict peoples' ability to defend themselves.
I know that this will probably receive some downvotes (I understand why, too, and don't disagree); but I'm just trying to think of constructive alternatives and use a bit of devil's advocate-style thinking.
Freedom ain't free.
The reason of guns or encryption or any other such tools shall be still available and necessary in free society is: criminals and governments will have it no matter what the law is.
Simply outlawing "dangerous tools" mean that only dangerous people will have it,and good people will be left defenceless against enemies - internal and external.
we used to have fun clubs and safety training in schools and boyscouts
I member them
It is a good thing that my rights are immune to government, your opinion, and your willing to compromise the rights of others.
When you understand that all rights are bestowed upon each individual as a gift from our Creator then you come to realize that no other authority has any say in your exercise of those rights. There are consequences for infringing upon the rights of others. There are consequences for injuring others. There are consequences for wrongfully taking the life of another. There are consequences for damaging or taking the property of others.
So, knowing those facts, how can you advocate anything other than personal responsibility and consequences for poor decisions of bad acts?
Government has no legitimate power or authority to infringe on any of my rights, let alone the very right meant to allow me to defend my life, my property, my family, and my freedom.
I get where you’re coming from you think everyone should know how to use their guns. ... Ok so what about the people who grew up with guns and parents showed them how to use them responsibly all their lives or like in mine & my kids cases .. my husband who is retired military & in LE for many many yrs & has firearm training experience, teaches us how to use our guns responsibly.... would we be expected to Pay someone else to teach us how to responsibly use our guns? Just so we’d have a piece of paper saying we took a course? I already have my conceal carry permit. Are they going to take that away next because I didn’t take a course?
Are all of those personal inconveniences more important to you than potentially turning this sinking ship into a raft? I don'tean this to be judgemental; o totally get just keeping what you have and not being bothered. That's your choice, and that's okay.
People will have different thresholds but I've always been supportive of finding useful, realistic if not slightly mad plans for restoring Americans' 2A rights. I would get an inconvenient training so that more people would be defending themselves and wrestling a powerful tool away from the MSM/TPTB.
They won’t come after our guns! Especially not here in the south, they will have a fight on their hands, anyone willing to go to people’s homes to grab guns or ammo because people didn’t take a class is either stupid or suicidal. You may want to give in & give a little but many are not willing to give an inch. And I don’t believe our LE will entertain this nonsense. Many people were practically born with a gun in their hands, they don’t need a class by a person that who knows where they got their training & “ideas” from. I can see if a person never handled a gun before and wanted to take a class then that’s their choice. But not everyone is like that. I’m not trying to be or sound ugly, I’m just giving you the other side of how others will feel compared to what you are suggesting.
I think sane gun control measures are needed. If not what they'll eventually do is just outlaw the sale of ammunition. Outlaw gun stores. Outlaw the sale of gun parts. Outlaw private sales of guns. So that they won't have to go door to door taking guns... they will just kill it off in one slow burn. You can keep your guns and ammo but after multiple generations 95% of it will be unusable and people will have lost interest.
So I think maybe having psychological tests for new gun owners would be a good thing. Maybe make people spend an hour with a trained psychiatrist. Personally I don't think that's such a crazy qualification to add. We make people go through WAY more hoops to drive a car which is a much less dangerous tool.
You go right on ahead with your psychiatrist if you want be my guest. But I won't pay for one and many others won't either. Not going to change my mind on this, so if you want to give up your rights go ahead. I'm a stubborn person, the more you try to convince me, the more I will not go along. You few that have been hounding me about this can all give up your rights and message each other about it. I'm done discussing this with you. Have a nice night.
Stop being so damn dramatic, it's a discussion board.
I disagree vehemently..
Psychology is pseudoscience and filled with leftists. I would never pay to help that profession get inside your head. You are basically handing over your gun rights to a pseudoscience who is going to make more money by saying you aren't sane enough to own a gun and oh by the way you need some anti psychotic to fuck up your brain too. You may as well hand over your guns to the state. Same difference imo.
These are the people involved in monarch programming.
I understand your point but what I'm saying here is that there are most likely going to be changes coming regardless and I think helping stop guns getting in the hands of crazy people will help stem mass shooting which in turn will help stem even worse gun control methods. These politicians are not stupid and will come up with laws to circumvent the 2nd amendment
Your car isnt a right.perhaps you should take a goverment psychological test to heavy permission to post on the internet or attend the school or church or club of your choice.
What happens when the left restricts or stops the ability to train people. Never give an inch.
Agreed; too much can go wrong giving a governing body an authority over citizens arming themselves.
I suppose I enjoy the thought experiment of possible solutions like this but until there is more accountability and transparency in government (if that ever happens -- though I have faith as we watch these 'coincidental' events pile up) it's a non-starter.
Nope, any restrictions is an open door for them. Not being trained doesn't cause mass shootings. Accidents yes, do I believe in training, yes, as a condition to own a gun...no.
Open carry is dangerous. It's a good way to get yourself hit over the head from behind and robbed. What people need to do is conceal carry, and ignore the laws. Everyone needs to buy a sidearm and conceal carry it. If you are a criminal then you will eventually get thrown up against the wall and searched for robbing a 7-11. But if you do not rob 7-11's then you will not have that problem.
Because communist murder the opposition.
Why dont democraps care about Chicago ?
Because you can't easily take over a population when they have guns and bullets to use to resist you.
Its easier to murder the unarmed
https://media.patriots.win/post/aVsFOA6v.png
It's a script.
For the same reason Satan tempts us when we are discouraged. We are more likely to give in if we think we are defeated. Perfect Love Casts Out All Fear. They foster hate and fear because it is all they can do. We can overcome it all, but we need to focus on preparing ourselves (LordKekingtonEsquire has a great idea, toward the top of the thread) spiritually, mentally and physically.
Usama Bin Laden, There may be a variety of reasons he was killed rather than simply captured. Maybe someone else has some insight on this. As far as WW1 and WW2 are concerned, there are sites that have more insight than you'll find in places like wikipedia and government sites. The Zero Aggression Project site is one of my favorites for history. WW1 and WW2 were both wars essentially fought over nothing, and we entered them not for moral reasons, but for 'empire building' purposes: https://www.zeroaggressionproject.org/defense/history-lesson-u-s-military-force-good-evil/
How do you know we killed him