I see the Dr. Shiva syndrome happen all the time with very smart people. They devote themselves so fully to a specific path that they simply refuse to consider any deviation from their perceived route to success. This is both good and bad, but the fact that he does not see his own limitation in judgement leads me to question whether he is really as good in systems theory as he thinks he is. In mathematical terms he has set the boundary conditions of his solution incorrectly.
Doesn't mean he is wrong though within the constraints of the problem space he has created. But this is precisely why dissensus is so important in science and problem solving. Dr. Shiva is locked into a local minimum that prevents him from seeing a bigger landscape.
We need to support him because his case could be a key that unlocks something larger, but we also need to recognize that he may be myopic in what he can see.
Great comment. I'll add, I can't count the number of times I've used the word "myopic" lately. It's a toss up between that and "willfully ignorant". Thanks for your elequence.
I wouldn't dismiss what he's saying so easily. I'll give him this, the Republican party was dying. People had had enough. The Tea Party showed the establishment Republican party scam was in real danger. So I can see where he's coming from. At the end of the day he stands more correct than anyone. If/when and until the 'plan' comes about, what he's saying stands. The Democrats are in power and the Republicans fully support them. Each day gets worse, not better. A few 'clues' along the way, depending on one's interpretation.
I don’t dismiss what he’s sayin, he clearly believes it. My issue is HIS dismissal of Trump, Q, and the plan. If he’s on Dave’s show he has to have been exposed to some proofs, but he’s very dismissive of Q and flatly calls it fake.
Seems his 'truth' stems from anger and disappointment from not being contacted by the WH and not given data. Assuming Shiva wasn't/isn't part of the plan.
No, what we want is the entire system of control removed. It’s much larger than just D’s and R’s, it’s the essence of the plan. He either doesn’t know, or doesn’t believe in the rot that permeates every power center of religion, finance, media, etc, what the Plan is meant to destroy. He brushes it off like it’s nothing.
My take is Dr. Shiva is an I, me, my, kind of guy. All of his talk of election fraud hinged on his lost election. His tone was condescending and self centered. I’m not sure he’s based at all, however this does not dilute his expertise in his field. Dave let him have his say and though he challenged some pushing back too hard would have looked worse I believe. I don’t agree with everything that Dave Spotlight guest say and it seems Dave doesn’t either.
I could FEEL Dave cringing as Shiva went on how “all the Trumpers were duped” and how Trump is big grifter who fronts for Jared’s businesses. That dude needs a huge RED pill suppository
No, you should watch it. Doing so will fill out the perspective especially on how people like Shiva see it. The last 5-10 minutes are brutal. You can hear the disappointment in Dave's voice (I was listening to the PodBean podcast version). Dave did stand his ground with some good points. I highly doubt Dave will take Shiva up on his offer to "have him back on the show" - the way Dave ended it was so abrupt too, at least on the podcast version it sounded like Dave hit the stop record button halfway through his sign off.
More power for Dave putting this episode out there tho. I have to admit I hated hearing Shiva say what he said. I don't agree with his take at all. But that's where we can agree to disagree, even tho I think Shiva is totally wrong with his point of view.
I could go on all day with this one. He just tried to bring down a mountain of evidence that supporters our movement with 2 weak ass points. Jared Kushner and Israel?? Lmao!!! Saving Israel for last, so what’s his point. Kushner can go down with them. And then some gibberish about Trump = Bernie. Who in their right mind is giving that BS any credibility. All I heard was “I’m right, I didn’t get my data, so it’s fake”. Sounds like an elitist himself. I love X22 and Dave, I listen to 95% of his episodes but he isn’t that “in”. He gives the headlines and his opinion. Never claims to know and just points out things that are “very interesting”. I never take him as gospel but just a soft sound board for things to consider and think about.
He is calling for a “bottoms up movement” but aren’t “Trumpers” and “Q” exactly that? Are we not the majority? Isn’t Trump anti-establishment? How can he compare the Bernie movement to the Trump movement? Socialism vs. America First. We have the majority Bernie has never had a majority. He is nothing more then a flash in the pan. And not even that flashy. I’m sorry but he is claiming we need and what he is calling for is exactly what everyone here and across the world are. He is throwing a temper tantrum because he apparently wasn’t included. Maybe he didn’t get the “data” he wanted because they don’t want him to have it. It’s not Dr. Shiva’s timing and apparently he isn’t apart of “the plan”. All I know is I’m 1 hundo on Gen. Flynn and the tree that branches out from there (Lin Wood, Mike Lindell, etc.). How would Flynn not know the truth as MI? Common sense. Lin just put it all on blast yesterday and guess who will be in SC Wednesday campaigning for Lin....Gen. Flynn. He was in the establishment’s sites and eventually in their grasp, don’t tell me he doesn’t know. STFU Dr. Shiva you don’t know shit!!!
Not as long as he is playing ball with establishment republicans.
He has turned his back towards us, the public, and is instead giving the establishment republicans what they want- his endorsement.
What Trump should be doing is giving we the people what we want, and America needs- his foot jammed up the ass of republican party traitors! His focus should be about abolishing the republican party, and the Marxists who are being empowered by the republican party.
This is a good test for the 'movement'. Is Shiva to be character assassinated and dismissed (like the left and DS does) or do we take what he asserted and analyze it - scientifically - testing his assertions, comparing to what we know to see if his 'theory' fits.
His stuff about Jared Kushner (and Ivanka) profiting from the Trump Presidency - have to admit that bothers me, particularly when it is business in China. It also makes some sense as to how the hell Trump won to begin with - that was no small miracle.
But I have a hard time reconciling Trump as doing this on purpose - I don't think he is that good of an actor to be able to ad lib hours of talk and not believe what he is saying.
Trump's populism still stands out to me. Why push for the wall and the clamp down on illegal immigration if he is doing DS business? Why the battles with McCain, Romney, Cheney, McConnell - all for show?
I don't think it adds up but I think we should not just dismiss out of hand but weigh in and argue it out with reason.
I haven't listened to this, but from what I'm reading, it seems as though Dr. Shiva has a bruised ego as to not being contacted by POTUS Trump and his people.
We all know that the Left wouldn't demonize someone who is working on their side.
Do we know anyone else that has been demonized more than POTUS Trump for 4 years? No, we don't.
The fake media, the Left always try and promote the ones who are on their side...Fauci, Cuomo, vulgar celebrities who push the Left's agenda and so on.
The Trump family is vilified like no other family that I can remember.
I see the Dr. Shiva syndrome happen all the time with very smart people. They devote themselves so fully to a specific path that they simply refuse to consider any deviation from their perceived route to success. This is both good and bad, but the fact that he does not see his own limitation in judgement leads me to question whether he is really as good in systems theory as he thinks he is. In mathematical terms he has set the boundary conditions of his solution incorrectly.
Doesn't mean he is wrong though within the constraints of the problem space he has created. But this is precisely why dissensus is so important in science and problem solving. Dr. Shiva is locked into a local minimum that prevents him from seeing a bigger landscape.
We need to support him because his case could be a key that unlocks something larger, but we also need to recognize that he may be myopic in what he can see.
This??
Great comment. I'll add, I can't count the number of times I've used the word "myopic" lately. It's a toss up between that and "willfully ignorant". Thanks for your elequence.
Well written and thoughtful. Good information to know. Thumbs up!!
I wouldn't dismiss what he's saying so easily. I'll give him this, the Republican party was dying. People had had enough. The Tea Party showed the establishment Republican party scam was in real danger. So I can see where he's coming from. At the end of the day he stands more correct than anyone. If/when and until the 'plan' comes about, what he's saying stands. The Democrats are in power and the Republicans fully support them. Each day gets worse, not better. A few 'clues' along the way, depending on one's interpretation.
I don’t dismiss what he’s sayin, he clearly believes it. My issue is HIS dismissal of Trump, Q, and the plan. If he’s on Dave’s show he has to have been exposed to some proofs, but he’s very dismissive of Q and flatly calls it fake.
Seems his 'truth' stems from anger and disappointment from not being contacted by the WH and not given data. Assuming Shiva wasn't/isn't part of the plan.
If Trump lost on purpose, "to show the people", can you really blame Shiva for thinking that way? What was he supposed to think?
Isn't the true-outsider organization he's building, where both the Democrat and Republican establishments are rejected, what we want?
No, what we want is the entire system of control removed. It’s much larger than just D’s and R’s, it’s the essence of the plan. He either doesn’t know, or doesn’t believe in the rot that permeates every power center of religion, finance, media, etc, what the Plan is meant to destroy. He brushes it off like it’s nothing.
My take is Dr. Shiva is an I, me, my, kind of guy. All of his talk of election fraud hinged on his lost election. His tone was condescending and self centered. I’m not sure he’s based at all, however this does not dilute his expertise in his field. Dave let him have his say and though he challenged some pushing back too hard would have looked worse I believe. I don’t agree with everything that Dave Spotlight guest say and it seems Dave doesn’t either.
II was saving that to watch later, maybe I will abstain. =/
I could FEEL Dave cringing as Shiva went on how “all the Trumpers were duped” and how Trump is big grifter who fronts for Jared’s businesses. That dude needs a huge RED pill suppository
That is sad, no Debbie Downers allowed on this train.
Me too.
Could it be that Shiva was always controlled opposition?
Just wondering?
No, you should watch it. Doing so will fill out the perspective especially on how people like Shiva see it. The last 5-10 minutes are brutal. You can hear the disappointment in Dave's voice (I was listening to the PodBean podcast version). Dave did stand his ground with some good points. I highly doubt Dave will take Shiva up on his offer to "have him back on the show" - the way Dave ended it was so abrupt too, at least on the podcast version it sounded like Dave hit the stop record button halfway through his sign off.
More power for Dave putting this episode out there tho. I have to admit I hated hearing Shiva say what he said. I don't agree with his take at all. But that's where we can agree to disagree, even tho I think Shiva is totally wrong with his point of view.
It was really good for the first hour.
I could go on all day with this one. He just tried to bring down a mountain of evidence that supporters our movement with 2 weak ass points. Jared Kushner and Israel?? Lmao!!! Saving Israel for last, so what’s his point. Kushner can go down with them. And then some gibberish about Trump = Bernie. Who in their right mind is giving that BS any credibility. All I heard was “I’m right, I didn’t get my data, so it’s fake”. Sounds like an elitist himself. I love X22 and Dave, I listen to 95% of his episodes but he isn’t that “in”. He gives the headlines and his opinion. Never claims to know and just points out things that are “very interesting”. I never take him as gospel but just a soft sound board for things to consider and think about.
He is calling for a “bottoms up movement” but aren’t “Trumpers” and “Q” exactly that? Are we not the majority? Isn’t Trump anti-establishment? How can he compare the Bernie movement to the Trump movement? Socialism vs. America First. We have the majority Bernie has never had a majority. He is nothing more then a flash in the pan. And not even that flashy. I’m sorry but he is claiming we need and what he is calling for is exactly what everyone here and across the world are. He is throwing a temper tantrum because he apparently wasn’t included. Maybe he didn’t get the “data” he wanted because they don’t want him to have it. It’s not Dr. Shiva’s timing and apparently he isn’t apart of “the plan”. All I know is I’m 1 hundo on Gen. Flynn and the tree that branches out from there (Lin Wood, Mike Lindell, etc.). How would Flynn not know the truth as MI? Common sense. Lin just put it all on blast yesterday and guess who will be in SC Wednesday campaigning for Lin....Gen. Flynn. He was in the establishment’s sites and eventually in their grasp, don’t tell me he doesn’t know. STFU Dr. Shiva you don’t know shit!!!
Not as long as he is playing ball with establishment republicans.
He has turned his back towards us, the public, and is instead giving the establishment republicans what they want- his endorsement.
What Trump should be doing is giving we the people what we want, and America needs- his foot jammed up the ass of republican party traitors! His focus should be about abolishing the republican party, and the Marxists who are being empowered by the republican party.
This is a good test for the 'movement'. Is Shiva to be character assassinated and dismissed (like the left and DS does) or do we take what he asserted and analyze it - scientifically - testing his assertions, comparing to what we know to see if his 'theory' fits.
His stuff about Jared Kushner (and Ivanka) profiting from the Trump Presidency - have to admit that bothers me, particularly when it is business in China. It also makes some sense as to how the hell Trump won to begin with - that was no small miracle.
But I have a hard time reconciling Trump as doing this on purpose - I don't think he is that good of an actor to be able to ad lib hours of talk and not believe what he is saying.
Trump's populism still stands out to me. Why push for the wall and the clamp down on illegal immigration if he is doing DS business? Why the battles with McCain, Romney, Cheney, McConnell - all for show?
I don't think it adds up but I think we should not just dismiss out of hand but weigh in and argue it out with reason.
I haven't listened to this, but from what I'm reading, it seems as though Dr. Shiva has a bruised ego as to not being contacted by POTUS Trump and his people.
We all know that the Left wouldn't demonize someone who is working on their side. Do we know anyone else that has been demonized more than POTUS Trump for 4 years? No, we don't.
The fake media, the Left always try and promote the ones who are on their side...Fauci, Cuomo, vulgar celebrities who push the Left's agenda and so on.
The Trump family is vilified like no other family that I can remember.
Yep, the dot head took a great big old steaming shit on the whole movement, and Trump and Q.
Shiva is more about promoting Shiva.
I turned it off too, and I don't need to see or hear from dot head again.