For Everyone That Keeps Asking if an Election Has Ever Been Overturned Due To Fraud! YES, and as Recent as 1994! Eyes on Pennsylvania!
(www.baltimoresun.com)
? B O O M ! ?
Comments (31)
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"...hundreds of residents were encouraged to vote by absentee ballot even though they had no legal reason."
"...Democratic campaign workers forged the names of people on dozens of absentee ballots who were living in Puerto Rico, serving time in prison or, in at least one case, had been dead for some time."
"Substantial evidence was presented establishing massive absentee ballot fraud, deception, intimidation, harassment and forgery..."
"...the two Democrats on the three-member Board of Elections, elected body, testified that they were aware of the voter fraud, had intentionally failed to enforce the election law, and had later tried to conceal their activities by hurriedly certifying the Democratic candidate as the winner."
"Judge Newcomer ordered that Mr. Stinson...be certified the winner within 72 hours."
"The election was crucial because the party that won the seat also won control of the 50-member state Senate."
Unique circumstances call for unique measures. Many things happening that are first in history. If major nationwide fraud is proven, first in history. There is no precedent for much of what is happening.
I am not saying the election will be overturned, what I am saying is . New Precedence is more likely than not to be set!
If Trump won by a landslide along with down ticket due to massive fraud and proven, some thing will happen! By the Government or the People.
What has the overturning of a state election got to do with overturning a presidential election? Nothing!
"The sole function of the presidential electors is to cast, certify and transmit the vote of the State for President and Vice President of the nation."
Once the elector has performed in this capacity, they are no longer electors, their constitutional duty is over.
I wish it were as simple as the states taking back their already certified electors but it's not. After the State vote of electors is cast, certified, and transmitted (received by the Senate) that result is no longer under the authority of the state to affect. In other words, it can't be decertified, it can't be taken back.
I am open to any argument. But anyone that claims their is legal precedent for overturning a presidential election outcome is daffy.
I understand a state election is not the same as a presidential election, but you can't ignore the similarities from the story. It seems once the guilty parties testified to their crimes, that was all they needed to overturn the results. Are you saying that if the same thing happens this year regarding Trump, there is nothing that can be done about it?
I am not saying that their is nothing that "can" be done. I am saying that there is no legal means, no constitutional means, nothing that one can point to that says, "when this happens, her is the legal remedy."
Before the electors were certified, we had all the proof of electoral fraud needed for the state legislatures, vice president, or SCOTUS to talk action, and absolutely nothing happened. That's were the constitutional process failed.
Q said time after time, "The only way is the military", or something like that. If you going to hang your hopes on "The Plan" and Q, then that's what you have to believe, as close as I can tell anyway.
I'm sure you know the say, "Possession is 9/10 of the law." We right now Biden is in possession of the office of the presidency, and 50%, or maybe slightly less, believe he is legit.
Do you really imagine that we are going to overturn what the cabal masterfully orchestrated just because we have two times, or three time more the hard evidence that we had during and right after the event. Our enemy has pieces on the board that they are going to play also, and so far that have out played us move for move. We hold a weaker hand than we did before the election.
I don't buy this shit for one second that Trump had let the enemy take the high ground as though it were some kind of power play. I think we played our hand, the cabal played their, and we lost that round.
If you look at how quickly event are unfolding, everything is happening according to a larger plan our enemy is playing.
Ask yourself, did anything happen to the Clinton when we had all the information of their abuses. Why did Trump and the DOJ let Epstein get murdered in his jail cell. Hell anyone of us would have had the sense to know that this was going to happen.
Did anything happen is the Awan brothers scandal. Fuck almighty, these guys stole entire computers from the House and Senate that the members were in on, and absolutely noting happened. The FBI had all the data on Schultz and did nothing.
Did anything at all happen to Comey, and all the other crooked Crossfire Hurricane conspirators who by any definition perpetrated a politician coup on the United States of America.
I could go on, and on with things for which there was tons of hard evidence and yet not one single person in prison. But all of a sudden you think because we prove yet another crime, that this time things are going to be made right.
We have a tough row to hoe, ain't doubt about it. Take a step back from the daily hopium, and look at the scoreboard. Ask yourself, if you were the enemy that had unlimited resources, and had been working out every conceivable move for over 100 years, what would you be doing right now to maximize your chance of winning. Would one of the things you'd be doing is always giving you enemy just enough hope of winning until you had them checkmated. I don't know, but it sound like a smart move to me.
Our biggest hope lies in States exercising their sovereign rights, and resisting Federal tyranny.
I apologize for any typos, or errors in logic and reason. It's late.
"The maxim that fraud vitiates every proceeding must be taken, like other general maxims, to apply to cases where proof of fraud is admissible”.
US v Throckmorton, United States Supreme Court
Ha! Not only is it an example of overturning an election, it is also very informative as to how the election was stolen - fraudulent mail-in ballots! Who knew that could be a thing?
It's really annoying that these posts keep getting made. None of this matters.
Biden has been sworn in, so the 2020 election is final. It. Is. Final.
Never has a federal election been overturned. The closest that it has ever gotten is an order for a new election.
It is possible that SCOTUS could order a new election for President and Vice-President, but there is no precedent to that, The thing I find problematic is that the Constitution specifies that a term is four years and the only way to remove a sitting President is impeachment.
So that leaves only these options:
The Speaker of The House resigns, and the House votes in Donald Trump as the new Speaker. Congress then impeaches, convicts, and removes Biden and Harris; making Trump President.
Harris resigns, Biden appoints Donald Trump Vice-President, then he also resigns. Trump would then become President.
Biden nominates Trump to a cabinet position, the Senate confirms him. Congress impeaches, convicts, and removes Biden, then pass a bill stating that Donald Trump is the federal official who will act as President. Acting-President Pelosi signs the bill into law and she remains Speaker of the House.
The long shot: SCOTUS orders a new Election, and Trump wins if there is no fraud. He's then sworn in on January 20, 2022.
That's it. There is no other option. No re-instatement. No overturning of the election.
Simply, fraud vitiates everything.
I agree. Once you admit that you stole an election through multiple means, and admit you illegally certified electors, wouldn't that be enough to get things rolling?
I see this stated often, but I get the impression that the people repeating it don't understand what it means.
It doesn't mean that fraud undoes everything. It means that fraud spoils everything. Meaning that confirmation of fraud would make Biden the President that cheated to get elected... But he would still be President.
Nope. Read the SCoTUS ruling again.
Nope. I have a solid grasp of the opinion. It is like I said. Fraud does not undo anything; it spoils it. The opinion states explicitly that the point isn't to go back and undo all of the fraud; just that because fraud was present, relief may be granted.
United States v. Throckmorton, 98 US 61 - Supreme Court 1878
It may be hard to comprehend because of the language used. So to summarize what that means: The court may set aside it's own judgements and grant relief (i.e. a redo or new trial) if fraud was used to obtain the judgement, but the court will not attempt to adjudicate the actual fraud.
So, what was the "certification" of the Congress of the Electoral College if not a "decree" of a court (of sorts)?
And, the Congress is not adjudicating the fraudulent actions that occurred against American voters by fraudulent interference in the determination of the tallies. The Congress would simply be recognizing that fraud vitiates their decree that Biden won the Electoral votes.
Might I add under FRAUDULENT DURESS.
You're sort of getting it, but still not quite. The certification is not the decree, it is the fraud. The courts are not going to litigate the fraudulent certification, nor will they rule on the constitutionality of Biden's inauguration as an incident of that fraud. They will only offer a remedy to the harm caused by the fraud... So a new election is the only real choice in the judicial route.
Please comment on my comment regarding the duress of the decision on January 6.
the conspirators are counting on people who think like you. they will argue that even if Biden achieved 'victory' by violating the state and federal constitutional provisions, he can only be removed through Constitutional impeachment.
most of the rest of us, however, think differently.
He was sworn in constitutionally. He must be removed constitutionally. It doesn't matter how he got there, just that he was sworn into office.
It would be great if we could kick Biden out and Trump takes over... But that's not how it works and that's not what's going to happen.
You can "think differently" all you want, but you will still be wrong.
"It doesn't matter how he got there, just that he was sworn into office."
Biden was sworn in by constitutional procedures not by constitutional law. uncountable state and federal laws were violated to bolster the claim of victory.
it is constitutional to prosecute a criminal seditious conspiracy executing a coup ("the sudden removal or displacement of authority that takes place outside the bounds of the law"); an internal coup is treason.
If what we experienced was garden variety, completely internal voter fraud, your scenario is probably correct. But if massive foreign interference is proven, it’s a whole new ballgame.
Even under your scenario, we have a constitutional crisis. The constitution does not intend for us to live under the rule of a person we did not elect, in fact it exists to prevent that. However, it does not provide a specific remedy for this situation.
That doesn’t mean nothing can be done. Nothing precludes the State Legislatures from decertifying their electoral college results. Nothing precludes Congress from doing the same, with the exception Dems are in control.
Would SCOTUS weigh in at the request of the DS if this happened? Maybe, but so far they’ve steered clear of getting involved.
But the real question is whether or not this was a coup. Was covid a bio attack to set the stage for stealing the election? And whether or not elected officials, and others who swore an oath to the United States collaborated with enemies to pull it off.
If the answer to those questions are yes, all involved are disqualified from holding office under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. If that is the case, nothing they have done since committing those acts would be considered official, including certifying the election.
It really isn't.
Agree 100%.
None of that will have any effect on who is President. Biden would still need to either resign or be impeached.
That would not apply in absolute terms like you're implying. If that were to happen, Biden would need to be impeached on those charges first (since a sitting president cannot be criminally indicted). Only upon conviction would he become ineligible to hold office.
That's just not true. None of this would apply retroactively. The election was certified. That's it. It's final. Everyone would know that they committed massive fraud to steal the presidency, but all of their prior actions will stand.
Yes, there is. The Founding Fathers spelled it out here:
We, The People, can remove the illegitimate President and Vice-President and seat the legitimate President in these circumstances.
This is what I was trying to get to. Many keep saying that since there is no precedent of overturning a Presidential election due to fraud, that means there is no possible way anything could be done about Biden and his team stealing an election. I simply disagree and think that this one example of a stolen Senate race would be enough to at least get people thinking more about the possibility. I've never received so many negative replies to an article.
That's the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution. This describes why the founders were declaring independence; not the definition of a constitutional process.
If you are suggesting that we amass an army, storm the capital, and overthrow the government, then you have a point. But there is no constitutional mechanism to undo the election.
That is the point, when there is no process, it falls to We, The People, not government, and not the constitution. The constitution originates from The People, not from any other source.
As you said, the only way to remove a sitting President is impeachment. Isn't that a possibility if evidence is actually presented and testimony from the guilty parties is recorded? Just like in the article I posted, once the guilty testified and admitted their crimes, that's all the judge needed to overturn the result. Are you saying that would be impossible regarding a President?
A sitting President that was seated through acts of treason doesn't have to be impeached. To impeach would lend credibility to the claim on the stolen office. Our founders would simply of hung the traitors by the neck until dead. No impeachment.
The constitution only applies to legitimate government, not stolen offices. Those fall under the same auspices claimed by the founders regarding King George. We, The People, hold the only legitimate power over rogue government. The 2nd Amendment should be your biggest clue. Tyranny by a legitimately seated President is one thing, and dealt with through constitutional means. Tyranny by a usurper is entirely different, and is not addressed in the constitution because it was common knowledge at the time it was written that the People possessed the only legitimate power over illegitimate or stolen government. The remedy is the People removing that which was usurped and seating a legitimate government in its place.
There's no precedent for any judge overturning a federal election. Additionally, there is no mechanism for such a thing. So that's a long, long, loooong shot of happening. Chief Justice Roberts is very sensitive to the image of the court and frequently rules in ways that are contrary to the constitution or law, in favor of doing what is politically palpable. The furthest I can see SCOTUS going is ordering a new election be held.
Impossible. There's no precedent or mechanism for it to actually happen.
The best scenario is the Harris resignation, Trump VP, Biden resignation scenario. It's the only one that doesn't depend on another branch of government.
We'd have to assume that Biden and Harris would have the honor and dignity to do what is right... But we all know that they won't.