There are a lot of people with a variety of agendas pushing negative stories about the vax. I could easily construct a similar narrative that would convince you that air travel is totally unsafe. Secret reports from Boeing, photos of crash sites, warped statistics. Heck, I could even do the same to convince you that driving is totally unsafe. Or eating meat. Or using shampoo. The fact is, literally millions of independent doctors around the world are in support of the vax. The only valid argument against it is that it is untried/untested; that I will accept. But misinterpreting VAERS data and showing 'tentacled monsters' in the vax doesn't cut it for me.
"Most Importantly" - the mantra of the anti-vax crowd here seems to be that we 'vaxxed' are 'living in fear'. This thread (and hundreds like it) are proof of the opposite - the unvaxxed are living in total fear of a harmless vaccine, while we 'vaxxed' are happily going about our lives taking full advantage of science and medicine.
I could easily construct a similar narrative that would convince you that air travel is totally unsafe
Funnily you made my point. Just like you can prove flying and driving unsafe by selectively focusing on certain stats, you can do the same to prove Covid-19 is dangerous. And thats exactly what they did to push their vaxx, and u fell for it, even though u understood this technique.
the mantra of the anti-vax crowd here seems to be that we 'vaxxed' are 'living in fear'
we couldnt care how the vaxxed are living as long as they dont involve us in their stupidity. We do however care for them to be safe, since a lot of our friends and family are vaxxed.
Just like you can prove flying and driving unsafe by selectively focusing on certain stats, you can do the same to prove Covid-19 is dangerous. And thats exactly what they did to push their vaxx, and u fell for it, even though u understood this technique.
Right. Both sides (of the argument) are playing the same game. So you can 'prove' the vax is dangerous, I can 'prove' Covid is dangerous. So ultimately, it comes down to a choice. I'm willing to go with the decision of literally millions of professional, independent doctors. Don't get me wrong - I HATE big pharma and don't trust them, but I do trust the medical profession as a whole because it is made up of individuals like you and me.
but I do trust the medical profession as a whole because it is made up of individuals like you and me.
I decided to make a separate reply for this because I think this is VERY IMPORTANT. I understand completely what you mean by this. My own parents, inlaws, brother, and other extended family - everyone of them who understand how evil Big Pharma is, feel the same way as well - how can medical profession as a whole be lying to us? For what purpose?
I want to address the second part first. Is it made up of people like you and me? I dont know about you, but sadly they are not like me - and I dont mean that vainly, I mean it in a very specific way.
Two decades ago, I was in a very lucrative career on my way to the top echelons in silicon valley. But I gave up all that and left US simply because I was very disturbed by the morals of the high up people I kept meeting. This was before Big Tech became what it is now. While I did not know what these people were really up to, I knew they had no morals and no respect for general population.
If I were like these medical professionals, I would have had no qualms staying in and growing high, being one of the very same people in Big Tech who are censoring and oppressing us today. I quit all that, moved to Australia and live a simple life - because the very thought of being part of that crowd makes me want to throw up.
Now lets talk about the medical professionals. I asked my GP a few months ago about the vaccines and she said they are safe and she took it. I asked her whether she looked at any studies herself and she said she had no time for that but she trusted the community. Then I asked her whether alternatives works against Covid and she went quiet. She then whispered that she is not allowed to talk about that.
So firstly, this cog in the wheel is not adding any value of its own, since it trusts the Machine. So her being a medical professional adds no value to her assertion about the vaccine. But the more disturbing part - she is perfectly fine carrying on her profession while being threatened from openly discussing and expressing her opinions - which is a MUST for science.
I gave up everything for far less than that. I gave it all up for just a gut feeling that these people were not good. And she is actively allowing them to suppress her.
So no, these medical professionals are nothing like me (and I am guessing you).
Since you are on this site, you are probably open to looking for places outside mainstream-approved sources to confirm for yourself whether the medical profession is going along with the agenda of their own accord or are they coerced or are they just ignorant.
Find out how many medical professionals do not agree with the official narrative and what they are saying. Find out how many high profile doctors and scientists disagree with the narrative, and find out how many doctors have been successfully treating Covid without vaccines with very high success rates - we are talking about almost 100%.
Proving to yourself that you can indeed trust this medical profession and that they have not been hijacked is something you owe it to yourself.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply! Very different from the usual discourse here.
Regarding this comment:
Then I asked her whether alternatives works against Covid and she went quiet. She then whispered that she is not allowed to talk about that.
I have friends who are doctors and I don't hear anything like this. I agree they are busy and aren't always doing all the research, but there is absolutely no hint of a 'conspiracy' to suppress discussion about alternatives. One doctor friend has told me he's quite optimistic about Ivermectin, and he's totally opposed to 'Big Pharma' on many levels (profiting from disease, no incentive to actually 'cure' diseases, etc) but - he said the vaccine itself is a 'fine product' and fit for purpose. His complaint is that the vaccine solution is not suitable for 3rd world countries (financially), and he wants to see (eg) Ivermectin researched and (hopefully) approved for use in those 3rd world countries. But he thinks the vaccine is the best solution and appropriate for (eg) US, UK who can afford it.
I too worked in Silicon Valley my entire career until retirement, but had no issues with the people in general, other than a surprising level of naivety (about how Social Media is destructive). I do think Facebook is fundamentally evil, but not because they censor people; they are evil because they promote conflict and profit from it. I view people like Zuckerberg as immature leaders who are totally out of their depth ... but without evil intent.
So you can 'prove' the vax is dangerous, I can 'prove' Covid is dangerous
There is a subtle difference which I want to point out. Let me see if I can untangle this properly. Lets say for a second that our belief that "vax is dangerous" is wrong, and that it is infact just as safe as any average vaccine in history - does it make any difference in terms of whether I would take it or not?
Think about it for a second. Its not enough for a vaccine to be safe, it also needs to be effective AND it also needs to be necessary. It is clear now that vaccines are not necessary (so many doctors around the world have successfully treated Covid with alternate medicines - happy to elaborate if you dont believe me) and we also know its not effective (statistics around the world proves this, but so does Pfizer's own studies. Infact the original Pfizer clinical study used for EUA - if you take a look at it, you will see that it did not prove that the vaccines prevented hospitalisation or death of even a single person! And the efficacy determined in it was totally fraudulent - I am happy to explain if you dont believe this)
So, vaccines are niether effective nor necessary - so I dont even need to care whether they are safe or not.
I presume 'vaccines' in this context is just the Covid variety (Pfizer, JJ, AZ, Moderna) - or are you opposed to all vaccines?
I disagree that Pfizer is not effective. People seem to use the fact that the vaccines don't PREVENT infection as an automatic condemnation. If you wear a helmet on a motorcycle, it doesn't mean you will walk away from an accident without injury; it simply reduces the likelihood of serious head trauma / death. What the anti-vax folks are saying is the equivalent of - 'look, this guy still broke his arm when wearing a helmet so that proves helmets are useless'.
Anyway - I just read this article today - https://globalnews.ca/news/8243462/pfizer-covid-vaccine-six-months-study/ . I realize this is Pfizer's own study and is reported by Reuters, which probably automatically invalidates it to you, but there are hundreds of similar studies and reports (I'm just posting this one as an example of the hundreds of similar reports). I don't expect the vax to stop me from getting infected; I expect it to stop me from getting hospitalized or ending up dead. I believe there is proof that this is the case. Maybe Ivermectin, Zinc, HCQ, etc will also achieve that but I get the 'vax' for free, it takes 5 minutes, and lasts at least 6 months ... vs taking a hard-to-find cocktail of other meds on a daily basis for months.
As an aside, I would say I know at least 100 people personally who've taken the vax and have not been negatively affected. Beyond that, I'm a member of various online communities where I'd say at least another several hundred people have mentioned taking the vax and have not had any negative reaction. These are people and communities that don't have an axe to grind or political agenda - so I'm comfortable believing them.
There are a lot of people with a variety of agendas pushing negative stories about the vax. I could easily construct a similar narrative that would convince you that air travel is totally unsafe. Secret reports from Boeing, photos of crash sites, warped statistics. Heck, I could even do the same to convince you that driving is totally unsafe. Or eating meat. Or using shampoo. The fact is, literally millions of independent doctors around the world are in support of the vax. The only valid argument against it is that it is untried/untested; that I will accept. But misinterpreting VAERS data and showing 'tentacled monsters' in the vax doesn't cut it for me.
"Most Importantly" - the mantra of the anti-vax crowd here seems to be that we 'vaxxed' are 'living in fear'. This thread (and hundreds like it) are proof of the opposite - the unvaxxed are living in total fear of a harmless vaccine, while we 'vaxxed' are happily going about our lives taking full advantage of science and medicine.
Funnily you made my point. Just like you can prove flying and driving unsafe by selectively focusing on certain stats, you can do the same to prove Covid-19 is dangerous. And thats exactly what they did to push their vaxx, and u fell for it, even though u understood this technique.
we couldnt care how the vaxxed are living as long as they dont involve us in their stupidity. We do however care for them to be safe, since a lot of our friends and family are vaxxed.
Right. Both sides (of the argument) are playing the same game. So you can 'prove' the vax is dangerous, I can 'prove' Covid is dangerous. So ultimately, it comes down to a choice. I'm willing to go with the decision of literally millions of professional, independent doctors. Don't get me wrong - I HATE big pharma and don't trust them, but I do trust the medical profession as a whole because it is made up of individuals like you and me.
I decided to make a separate reply for this because I think this is VERY IMPORTANT. I understand completely what you mean by this. My own parents, inlaws, brother, and other extended family - everyone of them who understand how evil Big Pharma is, feel the same way as well - how can medical profession as a whole be lying to us? For what purpose?
I want to address the second part first. Is it made up of people like you and me? I dont know about you, but sadly they are not like me - and I dont mean that vainly, I mean it in a very specific way.
Two decades ago, I was in a very lucrative career on my way to the top echelons in silicon valley. But I gave up all that and left US simply because I was very disturbed by the morals of the high up people I kept meeting. This was before Big Tech became what it is now. While I did not know what these people were really up to, I knew they had no morals and no respect for general population.
If I were like these medical professionals, I would have had no qualms staying in and growing high, being one of the very same people in Big Tech who are censoring and oppressing us today. I quit all that, moved to Australia and live a simple life - because the very thought of being part of that crowd makes me want to throw up.
Now lets talk about the medical professionals. I asked my GP a few months ago about the vaccines and she said they are safe and she took it. I asked her whether she looked at any studies herself and she said she had no time for that but she trusted the community. Then I asked her whether alternatives works against Covid and she went quiet. She then whispered that she is not allowed to talk about that.
So firstly, this cog in the wheel is not adding any value of its own, since it trusts the Machine. So her being a medical professional adds no value to her assertion about the vaccine. But the more disturbing part - she is perfectly fine carrying on her profession while being threatened from openly discussing and expressing her opinions - which is a MUST for science.
I gave up everything for far less than that. I gave it all up for just a gut feeling that these people were not good. And she is actively allowing them to suppress her.
So no, these medical professionals are nothing like me (and I am guessing you).
Since you are on this site, you are probably open to looking for places outside mainstream-approved sources to confirm for yourself whether the medical profession is going along with the agenda of their own accord or are they coerced or are they just ignorant.
Find out how many medical professionals do not agree with the official narrative and what they are saying. Find out how many high profile doctors and scientists disagree with the narrative, and find out how many doctors have been successfully treating Covid without vaccines with very high success rates - we are talking about almost 100%.
Proving to yourself that you can indeed trust this medical profession and that they have not been hijacked is something you owe it to yourself.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply! Very different from the usual discourse here.
Regarding this comment:
I have friends who are doctors and I don't hear anything like this. I agree they are busy and aren't always doing all the research, but there is absolutely no hint of a 'conspiracy' to suppress discussion about alternatives. One doctor friend has told me he's quite optimistic about Ivermectin, and he's totally opposed to 'Big Pharma' on many levels (profiting from disease, no incentive to actually 'cure' diseases, etc) but - he said the vaccine itself is a 'fine product' and fit for purpose. His complaint is that the vaccine solution is not suitable for 3rd world countries (financially), and he wants to see (eg) Ivermectin researched and (hopefully) approved for use in those 3rd world countries. But he thinks the vaccine is the best solution and appropriate for (eg) US, UK who can afford it.
I too worked in Silicon Valley my entire career until retirement, but had no issues with the people in general, other than a surprising level of naivety (about how Social Media is destructive). I do think Facebook is fundamentally evil, but not because they censor people; they are evil because they promote conflict and profit from it. I view people like Zuckerberg as immature leaders who are totally out of their depth ... but without evil intent.
There is a subtle difference which I want to point out. Let me see if I can untangle this properly. Lets say for a second that our belief that "vax is dangerous" is wrong, and that it is infact just as safe as any average vaccine in history - does it make any difference in terms of whether I would take it or not?
Think about it for a second. Its not enough for a vaccine to be safe, it also needs to be effective AND it also needs to be necessary. It is clear now that vaccines are not necessary (so many doctors around the world have successfully treated Covid with alternate medicines - happy to elaborate if you dont believe me) and we also know its not effective (statistics around the world proves this, but so does Pfizer's own studies. Infact the original Pfizer clinical study used for EUA - if you take a look at it, you will see that it did not prove that the vaccines prevented hospitalisation or death of even a single person! And the efficacy determined in it was totally fraudulent - I am happy to explain if you dont believe this)
So, vaccines are niether effective nor necessary - so I dont even need to care whether they are safe or not.
Again - thanks for the engaging discussion!
I presume 'vaccines' in this context is just the Covid variety (Pfizer, JJ, AZ, Moderna) - or are you opposed to all vaccines?
I disagree that Pfizer is not effective. People seem to use the fact that the vaccines don't PREVENT infection as an automatic condemnation. If you wear a helmet on a motorcycle, it doesn't mean you will walk away from an accident without injury; it simply reduces the likelihood of serious head trauma / death. What the anti-vax folks are saying is the equivalent of - 'look, this guy still broke his arm when wearing a helmet so that proves helmets are useless'.
Anyway - I just read this article today - https://globalnews.ca/news/8243462/pfizer-covid-vaccine-six-months-study/ . I realize this is Pfizer's own study and is reported by Reuters, which probably automatically invalidates it to you, but there are hundreds of similar studies and reports (I'm just posting this one as an example of the hundreds of similar reports). I don't expect the vax to stop me from getting infected; I expect it to stop me from getting hospitalized or ending up dead. I believe there is proof that this is the case. Maybe Ivermectin, Zinc, HCQ, etc will also achieve that but I get the 'vax' for free, it takes 5 minutes, and lasts at least 6 months ... vs taking a hard-to-find cocktail of other meds on a daily basis for months.
As an aside, I would say I know at least 100 people personally who've taken the vax and have not been negatively affected. Beyond that, I'm a member of various online communities where I'd say at least another several hundred people have mentioned taking the vax and have not had any negative reaction. These are people and communities that don't have an axe to grind or political agenda - so I'm comfortable believing them.