So, I've been asked to write a paper (or handout of sorts) and i could use some help from my frens, as it affects all of us.
Long story short, some people very close to me are getting involved in state politics and have some very strong allies backing them (current governor, former governor, etc.
However, they are very discouraged at the tradition of christians not getting involved in politics, and for their state they see a critical voter group being Christians.
This isnt a bash-fest request on Christian politics. Many churches and denominations had good reason at the time to insulate the congregation and themselves from politics. Others saw it simply as the tax break.
Most never saw it as isolating Christians from politics (our church supports political participation, said so just this Sunday). However, due to the creeping evil, it has Become for many, an excuse just to not get involved, and to propagate the don't talk about religion or politics crap that permeates society today.
I'm wondering if anyone has constructive, productive arguments to getting more christians involved in politics. I'm not looking for arguments to get pastorsat the pulpit going on about the deep state.. Just getting them out involved in their community, and voting (baby steps).
So many just don't want to even vote because of the corruption. Scriptural references are a bonus.
What i have now:
Micah 6:8
Mark 12:17
2 Samuel 23:3-4
Romans 13:1-7
Proverbs 28:28, 29:2
I believe christians have a responsibility in this war, and it's not to just ignore it and have faith in God. We are called to actively participate in the world that he created for us.
Thank you, appreciate your $0.02.. or adjusted for inflation $1.27. 😉
You are aware the example of Jesus is literally the exact opposite of what you said. He was a willing sacrifice. He had the power to have avoided death, yet chose not to. Was that tantamount to suicide?
Nobody said suicide can't be a sacrifice.
Agreed, Jesus was not a pacifist., nore are we called to be.
Consider also...
2 Timothy 2:4 James 4:4-5 1 John 2:15 John 15:18-19
Finally 2 Corinthians 2:20 - we are ambassadors for Christ - do ambassadors engage in the affairs of the country they are stationed in? No!
Good reference.
Ty
I would rather label myself as a "believer" instead of "Christian." I'm not even sure what Christianity represents anymore.
Politics; I have but one King. Nothing corrupts man more than power. You couldn't name one of them that has ever given you more than Jesus Christ, go ahead and try it, I'll wait. You follow them, instead of the Lord of Lords, you believe them instead of the Gospel of his Truth, you follow the world/flesh instead of the Spirit, you'll wind up just like all of the rest of these grand societies, mouldering away upon the ash heap. Hopefully, they won't start killing those who disagree, like they always do.
Back to your question
Romans 2:29 KJV But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
You can't. Once you believe and are baptized by the Holy Spirit, you are sealed in Christ unto the day of redemption. Literally. The Holy Spirit circumcises your flesh off of your heart/soul, so that it is no longer defiled by the flesh and God can dwell within. There is no going back, so rejoice, and circumcise your mind from the world. Trust in Him always. Amen
You aren't sure what Christianity represents anymore? It represents what it always has, a belief that Jesus saved you from sin through his death and resurrection and to live a life of faithful obedience to God.
and to live a life of faithful obedience to God.
Which is not true. Christ paid a substitute penalty for ALL sin, if you accept that payment, on your behalf, by believing, you are saved, period. From that point on, you will gladly allow Him to do His work through you. You are no longer a person, you are of the Body of Christ. If you see your works as what saves you, by keeping the law, you will be judged by the law.
May I ask which denomination you are?
It has been argued by folks much more learned on this subject than myself that the opportunity to sin is ever present. Otherwise, why confess? Why take part in the Eucharist? Why pray? Why participate in the Church with any regularity, anyway?
This could be a difference in our faiths (if you are a denomination of Christianity, it's likely we'll disagree on this interpretation), but -- framed simply and as I understand it -- Christ opened the doorway for those who have sinned to be forgiven; breaking open the doors of Hell so that we, too, may not be sentenced to immortal damnation for our sins but rather the immortal life in Heaven. Through theosis we strive to become more Godlike, but we are burdened while on Earth by the first sin and all other sins since. We can only do our utmost, until that day when we stand before the seat of judgement, to live without sin and be as Godlike as possible.
In other words, I think it unfair to say "not true" to someone who is living their life in "faithful obedience to God". We all are, albeit we describe it differently. I could certainly be misinterpreting your words, but... Christianity is not simply an acceptance or a belief that you are saved, it is an active practice of participation. There is nothing passive about Christianity.
You're inferring something I never said and I blame the Protestants for that. I was saying what being a Christian means. Obviously belief in Jesus as our savior and redeemer, which is the condition necessary for salvation. However, Christians are also called to love the Lord and be obedient to his commandments and live the example of Jesus. So being a Christian is more than just a belief in Jesus, there are other things God expects and Christians are called to do those things.
I understand what you're saying we are save d by faith and not by works but works does have a part to play.
But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [c]dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [d]perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. James 2:20-24
Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. James 2:17
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26
Even Christ in Revelation in the seven churches mentions the nicolatians. They continued sexual sin and eating food offered to idols. The spirit of this sin was the false thought that their si s are forgiven so they could do what they want. Jesus said he hates the works of the nicolatians.
Further more the amount of parables and lessons Jesus taught about bearing fruit, shall know them by their fruit. I think the fig tree that withered and died is a great example, from a distance it had leaves and looked like Jesus would find a fig, but as he inspected closer it had no figs, Jesus commanded it to wither and die.
but works does have a part to play.
James 1:1 KJV James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
James is a tribulations epistles written to the 12 tribes scattered abroad, who will be regathered during the tribulations. During this dispensation, salvation is by faith and works, don't take the mark, etc. During the dispensation of grace, it is faith alone.
Jesus said he hates the works of the nicolatians.
Nico means over in Greek and latians translates as laity. Over the church, clergy oppressing the church.
Jesus taught about bearing fruit,
Jesus's ministry was to the Jews, under the dispensation of the law. Only after they rejected the Gospel in Acts 7 by stoning Stephen, did the mission of the Apostles turn completely to the Gentiles. After the resurrection, obviously, anyone at any time can be saved by faith alone, but God set aside the nation of Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
u/OffGridGuy
During this dispensation, salvation is by faith and works, don't take the mark, etc. During the dispensation of grace, it is faith alone.
Where did you get the two dispensations from? Is the gospel not for the Jew and gentile? Isn't it the same gospel for either of them?
Show me where the is a different set of doctrine concerning faith and works to the Israelites and the gentiles.
Nicolatians has the meaning you said but also has the meaning of follower of Nicolas of Antioch. https://www.christianity.com/wiki/people/who-were-the-nicolaitans-in-revelation-why-did-god-hate-their-practices-so-much.html
"After the resurrection, obviously, anyone at any time can be saved by faith alone, but God set aside the nation of Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in."
Acts 15:11 does say that gentiles saved by grace in Jesus when the Jews are demanding converts to accept the mosaic laws. Hebrews 9:13-14 says Jews also need Atonement from Christ sacrifice on the cross. In my understanding the Jews have the same gospel and doctrines as the gentiles do.
I think where we differ is the difference of what you see as works to what i see the works in the book of James. James is not talking about keeping the mosaic or Roman Catholic law type of works but is talking about acting out good deeds, like the good Samaritan parable.
We are both right and the original commenter was right as well. James is saying we need to prove our faith by acting out the change of heart. As Paul wrote in Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Sorry for the long reply.
Sorry for the late response, I got caught up in other things.
Where did you get the two dispensations from? Is the gospel not for the Jew and gentile? Isn't it the same gospel for either of them?
The Jews that lived before Christ did not have the Gospel. To receive salvation, they had to believe in God and do works such as sacrifices, follow dietary restrictions and observe Holy days. Clearly, this is a separate dispensation, all in it's own. And it has never been done away with, it was just "set aside."
The age of Grace began at the Resurrection or at Pentecost. Salvation is based on hearing the Gospel, believing the Gospel and being baptized by the Holy Spirit. It is salvation by faith alone, no works are required. The new man, born of the Spirit, will submit to God's Will and allow God to do good works through him. A saved believer becomes one with the Body of Christ, you have received a cloak for your sin, through the Blood of Jesus Christ. You have literally been chosen/adopted out the world and belong to the Lord now. This is the dispensation of Grace. It is open to both Jew and Gentile, many, many Jews were saved during the Great Commission, and are now apart of the Body of Christ.
When the Holy Spirit is taken out of the World with the body of believers, who He has been gathering for 2,000 years, two things happen; 1) the antiChrist will no longer be restrained (first seal, white horse, conquering,) 2) salvation will return to being faith and works, as before. God has given us free will in all things, including the choice of your own destiny. If you choose to live under the law, you will be judged by the law. If you choose to believe in Jesus Christ, your sins are removed and your fellowship/service with Christ will be tried with fire (gold or stubble,) that which survives will be your reward in Heaven.
The Jews, for the most part, chose to remain under the law, and to this day, still await the Messiah. Salvation will revert back to faith and works during the tribulations. Some Jews (and Gentiles) will see their error during the tribulation, before Christ returns and they will repent and believe. They will be taken out before Christ returns, this is the harvest of grapes in Revelation, these are known as "tribulation saints." They will join the church, already in Heaven, and participate in the marriage supper of the Lamb.
What I just posted is all scriptural. It is not my private opinion. It is shown to those who rightly divide the Word into it's proper dispensations. There is even more, so much more than this, the Jews, who finally accept Christ when they see Him return the clouds, receive their earthly Kingdom as promised under the various Covenants (God never changes.) They will remain on the Earth forever, performing sacrifices and fulfilling the law at the New Temple, which descends to Earth from Heaven. The church, the body of Christ, receives the New Jerusalem, where God is the light and the Temple therein. Trust me, bro, this is the place you want to be at.
Agreed. I allow myself to be frustrated by those who believe their faith to be a coat worn on Sundays and Wednesday nights, rather than something which lives within perpetually.
At the very least, Christians should do their duty as citizens and vote, but through the lense of Christianity. The Jews participated in the census, although they were compelled to do so. In a way, if you skip the vote you end up with equally unpleasant consequences, albeit delayed a bit.
Consider Proverbs 3:3,4
Never.
You don’t. Sinning against the Spirit however is a different story.
For me, if I were to decide to go into politics -- with full consideration of my faith as an Orthodox Christian -- I would ensure that my house is in order. Constantly. This requires prioritization of faith over politics, at all times, because politics over faith is incompatible.
But to your question: "I'm wondering if anyone has constructive, productive arguments to getting more christians involved in politics."
People can be 'influencers' similar to politicians without running for office, too. Write Christian-based novels, screenplays, etc. Make movies. Organize "meet-ups". Lots of options out there. None of these things are necessarily easy, but all require a similar kind of conviction. Your actions don't need to be big to make a big difference.
Food for thought: I also recommend reading up on the lives of various saints instead of just quoting scripture. Scriptural references aren't everyone's cup o' tea, and the lives of saints give many motivation and hope.
Great response, and good info, thank you. Great insight and absolutely right.
You are very welcome! I'm glad it was useful to you.
Is it possible that followers of Jesus Christ simply want to keep their church life, their source of rest and refuge separate from worldly cares? So,attempting to approach them in their sanctuary might actually alienate them no matter how much scripture you cite.
To a certain degree yes, but I akin that type of behavior to that of an Ostrich, not a believer (keeping light under a bushel and all that).
While an individual's personal faith is their own and personal, the HS comes into you upon acceptance of Grace, transforming you.
My understanding is that it is transformative and permiates your being, disallowing you to compartmentalize yourself into separate parts, such as the secular you and the believer you. I find it jarring to say the least to look at the world through multiple lenses when one works fine, and comes with my core beliefs. Some say that it makes interaction with non believers untenable, but I would challenge that by saying we are all sinners and have fallen short, what makes you more special than anyone else? We all live in the same world. We've all fallen short and are equal on that respect.
It may be almost impossible. I dont think one can "undwell" the Holy Spirit once you've accepted Christ. One can turn their back on God. Beyond that, few attempt to rid themselves of Christ. The peace that surpasses all understanding is hard to give up. Usually, one wasn't a Christian to begin with. As is mentioned here:
Jesus said, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of God, but for others they are in parables, so that ‘seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.’ Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. The ones along the path are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away. And as for what fell among the thorns, they are those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not mature. As for that in the good soil, they are those who, hearing the word, hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bear fruit with patience. Luke 8:10-15
My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. John 10:29 ESV https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.10.29.ESV
I think a lot of people think that politics must be separated because of the whole church and state stupid thing. Anybody with 2 brain cells knows that that was never what it was intended that you leave your religion at the door to the courthouse, or a senate building.
The idea of a "Christian" is a separation mechanism. We The People are one singular group. Until this is fully appreciated by We The People we will continue to be stuck in The Matrix.
All of We The People believe different things. No one person has exactly the same beliefs about Reality AKA The Truth as anyone else. Some groups have "shared beliefs" but even within those beliefs that are "shared", there are numerous differences of nuance.
I don't even know what a "Christian" is, do you? Is it someone who believes that the Bible (the one that was pushed for 1700 years, not the one that existed before that) is Absolute unequivocal Truth? Is it someone who finds wisdom in the Teachings of Jesus? Is it someone who believes Jesus is God? What if someone believes Jesus is God, because we are all God (the Divine Spark)?
What if a persons path to the Truth is not by Jesus? The Bible insists that the only path to God is through Jesus, yet the number of problems with that statement is uncountable, including within the teachings of Jesus himself, though I do not want to have that particular theological discussion at this time, because it's not the point.
I will only say this with regard to that statement. The Truth Is what It Is and It Is all around us. I suggest listening to what it has to say will help you appreciate what It Is. We don't need anyone to interpret it for us, that is the opposite of Critical Thinking and the main control mechanism of The Matrix. We just need to learn how to listen.
Learning how to listen is a fundamental lesson of the GA. So is learning there is no such thing as a Christian. There is We The People. Everything else is a division of The Matrix to keep us at odds with each other.
So if you want to "engage Christians" in politics, entice them to appreciate that it's not about the individual path to The Truth, but the willingness to engage in honest debate to find it, no matter what it might be.
That is a concept that sells to all, no matter how "shared" or "diverse" their beliefs might be.
We are absolutely not one singular group, we are many groups with often directly opposed goals, values, and beliefs. Large numbers of those groups may have common enemies and can co-exist peacefully, but some of those groups are existential threats to some of the things other groups hold most dear.
This is the belief that keeps you, and everyone else, stuck in The Matrix. Until you see the fraud in this belief, you will remain there.
Why is it possible the cabal and we the people can be separate groups, but similar sort of divisions cannot exist within we the people? Some of we the people want to murder the unborn, how can those of us to recognize it is murder co-exist with child murderers? Isn't that one of the things we accuse the cabal of doing?
I didn't say it was "impossible," I said it was a fraud. The belief is a fraud. It has nothing to do with Reality. I am not saying "division can't possibly happen," I am saying the divisions as they exist... ALL the divisions that exist today are contrived. They were all created to keep us divided. Every Single One.
These people believe that it is right to do so. Their beliefs have been created purposefully to drive division. What most people don't truly get, is that both sides of every debate have the same controller. The pro-life and pro-choice people are both controlled by the same group. The Muslim Religion, the Christian Religion and the Jewish Religion (as well as all the other world's religions) were all created (as they exist today) by the same people.
The reason all these different groups exist is by the ministrations and continued manipulations of The Cabal.
There will almost certainly be those that will retain their separations after the GA (probably 4-6% of the population). They will be unwilling or unable to see the True Source of their contrived beliefs. For the other 94-96%, we will learn how to discuss truth, how to Think Critically, how to bring arguments and investigate. We will learn, as one group, how to let go of our beliefs that we need to fight over the truth, and instead engage in earnest debate to find it together. The Gestalt of Many Minds.
This appreciation of each other, and the manipulations that have kept us apart, is a fundamental function of the GA. This is what is coming.
Some say this world is out of control......but this world is playing out exactly as God intended.
All Satan’s power is by permission. He has no autonomy to do anything God does not permit for infinitely wise purposes.
Followers of Christ find ultimate peace when we walk by faith not by sight and trust in the LORD with all your heart; do not depend on your own understanding.
Character of followers of Christ..... Matthew 22:37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Followers of Christ have only ONE job.... Mark 16:15-16 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned...
Everything else is a distraction or things of man like getting into politics. But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.” Matthew 16:23
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. James 4:7
The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Romans 16:20
To contribute something new to the discussion: 1 Corinthians 7:17. If someone is called by God to work in politics, then they should follow God’s call. Will it be hard? Most likely. Will there be temptations? Yes.
Joseph worked a political office in Genesis. See also Daniel. There were people in the New Testament who were followers of Jesus and were from the Sanhedrin, related to Herod’s house, or Caesar’s house.
First of all, God needs his people everywhere including politics. I think Christian’s shy away from getting too involved because it’s nasty. Conservatives are targeted. I myself would like to run but I know I can’t bc I’m afraid my past will get dug up and held against me. This is even more heightened for Christian’s who are supposed to be an example of Christ. So it seems only spotless Christian’s can run because we are held to a higher standard and the media knows this why is why we are attacked first.
I don’t think throwing scripture around will help to be honest. You’ve got to find good examples of Christian’s who have endured and pulled through politics and use them to encourage others. Courage breeds courage. Show them what a future will look like without believers getting involved.
I don't know if this might be helpful to your research or not, but this is a good article describing Supreme Court justices weighing on on language of our charters and documents ASSUMING Christian values in their application. https://christianheritagefellowship.com/supreme-court-declares-america-christian