The original story was about the UPS customer breaking existing declaration of goods, hazmat, and firearms laws internally within the shipping system.
E.g. Shipper was not following UPS and Federal guidelines for the items they were shipping. I still see countless cases of ammunition and firearm longboxes shipped daily. Source: Im a package auditor, it's muh job.
Regarding the ammunition, most of the time you order a case of say this PMC 9mm in the video background, it's gotta be labeled one of three ways relating to package service level:
ORMD Bypass - Other Regulated Dangerous Goods - Blue exception sticker - Okay to ship via airplane without additional documentation
1.4S Explosives - Orange Diamond Label - Must be load planned for air transport and requires proper HAZMAT paperwork and must be audited internally by shipper. Typically these are always rejected for air transport and RTS'd or held in overgoods until disposal date if not claimed.
ORMD Misc - Black/White diamond label - May be suitable for air transport, must be audited internally.
Beyond these internal hurdles, local hurdles based on recipients location also pose variables. Live in a state that doesn't allow 1.4s explosives to be transported by mail? Service denial/failure. Lack of identifying stickers, paperwork, and or failure to remove or cover irrelevant HAZMAT markings (e.g. reused box) will also trigger denial of transport and stopping of progress internally.
Really though, when it comes to cases of bullets Occam' s Razor explains away most of this hyperbole: Cases of ammo weigh a lot! They are in flimsy ass single wall cartons. UPS system and employees are notoriously hard on package treatment. It's at least weekly I see spilled bullets inside of trailers, cans, and DMP area. In short, one toss from a loader and your cheap case of ammo is busted and spilled for the next center to find as a mess when they open up the trailer. Shit then gets either swept up and RTS'd, sent on to destination if they think they've "salvaged" the box contents, or swept into a plastic litter pan and sent to DMP/OVG for eventual disposal or pick up.
Going back to the gun story from several weeks ago, that shipper was shipping "custom" firearms. It was an FFL violation most likely. E.g. Shipping something maybe that's legal in FL but illegal in NY.
The ammo thing is such a joke. Ammo is right up there with cases of loose screws, nails, nuts, bolts, etc. All come in these boxes smaller than say a standard sized shoebox. All are incredibly dense and heavy. The smaller + heavier a box = The easier it is to bust open. A similar example is cases of copy paper. Dense, heavy, typically only held together with a singular plastic band. The distributors and manufacturers shipping this shit know they are cutting costs in the proper packaging department...
Additionally, the blue collar folks who typically stack/unload/scan are notoriously rough on package handling, get paid shit, have to work without central heat or a/c, and UPS does not give a shit what-so-ever.
You think they would attempt to fire a union protected employee for "tossing" a 50 lb box of ammo...? Shit MGMT isn't even going to discipline their grunt labor workers who typically lift/lower ~50,000 lbs of boxes cumulatively over the course of a few hours in a single shift!
And this is why I tell everyone I know to ship Fed Ex. I can't say it's any better than UPS or USPS... But I've seen the nightmare shitshow that the latter puts your packages through and maybe it's just the same over at Fed Ex, but I've not had to witness it for 20+ yrs like I have for the other two shipping entities.
Yup, totally....if i remember something from that post a few weeks ago, "ghost guns" were in the conversation as well. What can brown do for you? Well.......lol
Exactly! People will begin seeing the same "phenomenon" in other ORMD groups such as hemp/marijuana/CBD products for example.
Federally, UPS is protected in transporting across state lines these items. But, if you live in a state where it's illegal, then it's still illegal for the customer to buy and the seller to ship. It's all about origin point and destination.
Another notorious class of items is actually cosmetic and hair supplies. Think hair spray, peroxide, etc. Some of this stuff literally cannot be transported by air due to the hypothetical load constitution of an aircraft. Yet, dumbass privately owned salons try and ship the stuff all the time via "Air" service level... Often times using the very HAZMAT marked packaging it is originally ordered in. Derp!
Totally, have a friend that farms and ships hemp in Indiana. Wasn't it air canisters or some shit that brought down and ended ValuJet in the Everglades? I can understand the caution but let's be realistic about batteries and other. Trash trucks burn up everyday when batteries are disposed and crushed.
It's not the "crushing" that causes the explosion in an aircraft. It's the air pressure in the bellies and topside decks that's a constant loop system through large body aircraft. This is why the stupid fan vents constantly blow even when you shut them on passenger flights. Its an air loop.
Think about it like this, if your nose & mouth were hermetically sealed to your butt... 😆, hear me out. Internal pressure loop, no leaks. Now, light a match and hold it in your hand. No problem right? But, the second you swallow that match... KABLAMMO! Now imagine some derps shipping non marked ammo or hairspray and that shit gets loaded in the same location as the battery that just melted down... Yikes! Chopper Dave, we have uh oh!
That's the problem with the batteries. Once one blows inside of a box, then the fire just spreads like monkey pox at a SXSW concert.
Interestingly enough, Lithium battery tech has gotten much better. 3240, 3241, 3242.... They've gotten much safer in construction. Some are prohibited, some are now safer for air transit. The main problem with batteries now are cheap Chinese knock offs that already skirt the law on not only construction/stability but paperwork, labelling, and classification as well.
I have an ammo subscription through AmmoSquared. Twice my packages have disappeared and customer support said it was an unusually long process to get anyone at UPS to do anything about it (investigate where it went and then refund the cost).
There are stickers that are required to go on the boxes if the contents are explosive. So it’s easy for anyone at UPS to identify them and toss them.
Yep, you can. Might see my comments above, but it's 100% legal if:
properly labeled
properly documented
origin and destination allow for transport/delivery
The problem with ammo is the packaging itself. This stuff gets busted during handling because UPS employees throw and toss boxes like nobody's business. The packages themselves are incredibly heavy and dense (imagine a 50lb shoebox for comparison) and typically have single wall carton (box) and a single layer of cheap ass tape applied top to bottom.
I've had to clean up and rewrap countless boxes of ammo and it's solely because the packaging sucks due to the items density, weight, and the fact our loaders throw boxes several feet onto metal rollers... Then the scanners toss them into trailers where more heavy shit is usually tossed directly on to them and thus the shit busts open and typically ends up in the trash once it gets the damage control area (DMP) due to several variables:
lack of proper paperwork/markings.
lack of product, e.g. half your case of ammo is still spilled in the floor of a trailer that's already left the hub.
lack of insurance! Most people don't buy insurance, thus UPS has the unofficial "ok" to throw overgoods (found items internally in the system) im the garbage after X days or no claimant.
box/label damaged to point of not being able to print out an RTS or forward recipient address
I could go on and on. There's no conspiracy here. Just Occam's Razor. Poorly packaged shit gets busted open and destroyed all the time. Same thing happens with cases of nuts, bolts, nails, machined parts, copy paper, etc. All very dense and heavy shit that is typically poorly packaged by the distributor or manufacturer paired with UPS grunt labor throwing your packages around with reckless abandon.
When you advertise that something valuable is in the package, don't be surprised when it's stolen. Pretty simple.
There was a big chat about there on here about a month ago. Allegedly UPS was stopping to ship guns & ammo.
Yeah it was BS, same as Dahboo777 here.
The original story was about the UPS customer breaking existing declaration of goods, hazmat, and firearms laws internally within the shipping system.
E.g. Shipper was not following UPS and Federal guidelines for the items they were shipping. I still see countless cases of ammunition and firearm longboxes shipped daily. Source: Im a package auditor, it's muh job.
Regarding the ammunition, most of the time you order a case of say this PMC 9mm in the video background, it's gotta be labeled one of three ways relating to package service level:
Beyond these internal hurdles, local hurdles based on recipients location also pose variables. Live in a state that doesn't allow 1.4s explosives to be transported by mail? Service denial/failure. Lack of identifying stickers, paperwork, and or failure to remove or cover irrelevant HAZMAT markings (e.g. reused box) will also trigger denial of transport and stopping of progress internally.
Really though, when it comes to cases of bullets Occam' s Razor explains away most of this hyperbole: Cases of ammo weigh a lot! They are in flimsy ass single wall cartons. UPS system and employees are notoriously hard on package treatment. It's at least weekly I see spilled bullets inside of trailers, cans, and DMP area. In short, one toss from a loader and your cheap case of ammo is busted and spilled for the next center to find as a mess when they open up the trailer. Shit then gets either swept up and RTS'd, sent on to destination if they think they've "salvaged" the box contents, or swept into a plastic litter pan and sent to DMP/OVG for eventual disposal or pick up.
Thanks for the explanation and thanks for auditing the brown!
Heh, no problem.
Going back to the gun story from several weeks ago, that shipper was shipping "custom" firearms. It was an FFL violation most likely. E.g. Shipping something maybe that's legal in FL but illegal in NY.
The ammo thing is such a joke. Ammo is right up there with cases of loose screws, nails, nuts, bolts, etc. All come in these boxes smaller than say a standard sized shoebox. All are incredibly dense and heavy. The smaller + heavier a box = The easier it is to bust open. A similar example is cases of copy paper. Dense, heavy, typically only held together with a singular plastic band. The distributors and manufacturers shipping this shit know they are cutting costs in the proper packaging department...
Additionally, the blue collar folks who typically stack/unload/scan are notoriously rough on package handling, get paid shit, have to work without central heat or a/c, and UPS does not give a shit what-so-ever.
You think they would attempt to fire a union protected employee for "tossing" a 50 lb box of ammo...? Shit MGMT isn't even going to discipline their grunt labor workers who typically lift/lower ~50,000 lbs of boxes cumulatively over the course of a few hours in a single shift!
And this is why I tell everyone I know to ship Fed Ex. I can't say it's any better than UPS or USPS... But I've seen the nightmare shitshow that the latter puts your packages through and maybe it's just the same over at Fed Ex, but I've not had to witness it for 20+ yrs like I have for the other two shipping entities.
Yup, totally....if i remember something from that post a few weeks ago, "ghost guns" were in the conversation as well. What can brown do for you? Well.......lol
Exactly! People will begin seeing the same "phenomenon" in other ORMD groups such as hemp/marijuana/CBD products for example.
Federally, UPS is protected in transporting across state lines these items. But, if you live in a state where it's illegal, then it's still illegal for the customer to buy and the seller to ship. It's all about origin point and destination.
Another notorious class of items is actually cosmetic and hair supplies. Think hair spray, peroxide, etc. Some of this stuff literally cannot be transported by air due to the hypothetical load constitution of an aircraft. Yet, dumbass privately owned salons try and ship the stuff all the time via "Air" service level... Often times using the very HAZMAT marked packaging it is originally ordered in. Derp!
Totally, have a friend that farms and ships hemp in Indiana. Wasn't it air canisters or some shit that brought down and ended ValuJet in the Everglades? I can understand the caution but let's be realistic about batteries and other. Trash trucks burn up everyday when batteries are disposed and crushed.
That's a great example actually.
It's not the "crushing" that causes the explosion in an aircraft. It's the air pressure in the bellies and topside decks that's a constant loop system through large body aircraft. This is why the stupid fan vents constantly blow even when you shut them on passenger flights. Its an air loop.
Think about it like this, if your nose & mouth were hermetically sealed to your butt... 😆, hear me out. Internal pressure loop, no leaks. Now, light a match and hold it in your hand. No problem right? But, the second you swallow that match... KABLAMMO! Now imagine some derps shipping non marked ammo or hairspray and that shit gets loaded in the same location as the battery that just melted down... Yikes! Chopper Dave, we have uh oh!
That's the problem with the batteries. Once one blows inside of a box, then the fire just spreads like monkey pox at a SXSW concert.
Interestingly enough, Lithium battery tech has gotten much better. 3240, 3241, 3242.... They've gotten much safer in construction. Some are prohibited, some are now safer for air transit. The main problem with batteries now are cheap Chinese knock offs that already skirt the law on not only construction/stability but paperwork, labelling, and classification as well.
I have an ammo subscription through AmmoSquared. Twice my packages have disappeared and customer support said it was an unusually long process to get anyone at UPS to do anything about it (investigate where it went and then refund the cost).
There are stickers that are required to go on the boxes if the contents are explosive. So it’s easy for anyone at UPS to identify them and toss them.
Yep, you can. Might see my comments above, but it's 100% legal if:
The problem with ammo is the packaging itself. This stuff gets busted during handling because UPS employees throw and toss boxes like nobody's business. The packages themselves are incredibly heavy and dense (imagine a 50lb shoebox for comparison) and typically have single wall carton (box) and a single layer of cheap ass tape applied top to bottom.
I've had to clean up and rewrap countless boxes of ammo and it's solely because the packaging sucks due to the items density, weight, and the fact our loaders throw boxes several feet onto metal rollers... Then the scanners toss them into trailers where more heavy shit is usually tossed directly on to them and thus the shit busts open and typically ends up in the trash once it gets the damage control area (DMP) due to several variables:
I could go on and on. There's no conspiracy here. Just Occam's Razor. Poorly packaged shit gets busted open and destroyed all the time. Same thing happens with cases of nuts, bolts, nails, machined parts, copy paper, etc. All very dense and heavy shit that is typically poorly packaged by the distributor or manufacturer paired with UPS grunt labor throwing your packages around with reckless abandon.
Someone needs to run an old-school inquisition through all our snail mail systems.
It would not surprise me.
When I acquire various
'Freedom Seeds'
The vendors I utilize have always over boxed my 'Seeds'
One can inquire / ask..
Also many require some sort of
'Shipping Insurance'
For this EXACT purpose. Never more than a couple bucks