Welcome to General Chat - GAW Community Area
This General Chat area started off as a place for people to talk about things that are off topic, however it has quickly evolved into a community and has become an integral part of the GAW experience for many of us.
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Rules for General Chat
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I believe God created us in His image, gave us free will and the gift of His Son Jesus Christ, so that we may ultimately "come to Him" in a perfect Love only gotten through struggling against evil and choosing to be Saved.
That's where I'm at these days. Good question. Bless.
I could accept if Jesus is God but I'm just not there at the moment. I think in the end it doesn't matter if Jesus is God or not but hopefully more important that we live a wholesome life and keep trying to be Good. I mean most people in the world are not Christian but I don't think they should be turned away from Heaven or whatever simply because they had the wrong idea of what "God" ultimately is. I think I get turned off when people say for sure that Jesus is God because many others believe differently. God could be all of them at once or none. All I know is that I know nothing haha! Thanks for the insight, fren!
You are on the right path! Too often, we humans think we know what we know, but very often, we simply do not know what we don't know. Knowing that we do not know is the beginning of true wisdom!
That said, I'll say I think I was where you are now when I was a lot younger.
The conundrum of Jesus vs. other faiths and other founded faiths needs to be resolved logically, rationally, and spiritually, because personally, I think the idea that people can be condemned simply because they do not know the 'truth' is unacceptable. Also, there are many Christians who are convinced they know 'the truth', but in reality, do they embody that 'truth' in their actions, deeds, ability to sacrifice and love others unconditionally?
I don't say that to put fellow believers down, but to say, humility is important, and the last 2000 years are pretty strong evidence that even as Christians, we have NOT had the whole picture.
If you were going to educate, inspire and teach about how the universe works to a bunch of guys who are total nerds and geeky programmers, who spend their days and nights on a computer, would you get them together and start explaining how the universe works by talking about the internal combustion engine and cars and how torque works and fuel efficiency? No. They would not get what you are talking about, would very likely quickly turn off, and what you explain would not mean anything real to them.
But if you start talking about code, about scripts and programmes, and different computer languages, etc, and explain how the universe works giving those examples, you'd engage them, and they would see what you are saying at least, and be able to think about it, and possibly respond and go "aha! I can see that!"
To restore all of humanity who multiplied from one original starting point (aka 'Adam and Eve') into many, many diverse clans, ethnic groups, even nations with very diverse environments, including plants, animals, geographic conditions, etc, God has to start at one starting point. That starting point is what the Israelites called "the Messiah" and what Christians know as Jesus.
However, to raise the level of both faith, and intellect (aka raising spiritual development by teaching some expression of truth (aka how the universe works spiritually), God manifested the truth on a level and in such conceptual manner that fit the people who were being targeted and the instrument through which the truth was being expressed. That's why, for example, approximately 400 years before Jesus, Buddha came and Buddhism was born. Buddha's understanding of the truth was imperfect (because he himself was imperfect) but it was of a much higher level than that of the society in which he was born.
All good faiths teach some very basic, common truths about how the universe works spiritually. It is good to serve, to be generous, to love others, to practice honesty, sincerity, etc.
This is not to say all good faiths are equal. As I said before, Jesus is the central starting point, and from that perspective, the real purpose of ALL other good religions is to prepare people (in those regions) in their spiritual understanding and spiritual development to a point where they can actually connect with the level that Jesus is teaching, who unlike other great spiritual teachers, is perfect and has a full and perfect understanding of truth (because he is the living manifestation of the truth).
However, it is also true that Jesus himself said he could not tell his disciples everything. So while as Christians we might recognize Jesus unique nature, as God's son, and know with conviction that the way to God is somehow through Jesus himself (aka through a relationship with Jesus), there is still a lot that Christians do not know or understand. (Even St. Paul admitted this as much, quite clearly; he understood that he only saw things dimly, like a mirror, not directly.)
Based on limited information and understanding, many Christians think that any religion that is not Christian is evil or satanic, but that's not necessary, logically.
If I want to enter my bedroom, there is only one door I can go through. But to get to my study, I first have to be in the hallway. How do I get there? There are at least four doors via which I can enter my house and therefor walk all the way to the hallway. And, there is a gate at the front of my house which is fenced on all sides, so the gate is the only way into my yard but then I have 4 doorways via which I can enter from my yard into my house.
It's a little foolish to say that all the four doors are bad and useless, or only ONE of the doors into my house is of any worth, simply because there is only ONE door to my study.
Recognizing that all the four doors at least get me HERE (into the house and therefore into my hallway) does NOT contradict the idea that there is only ONE doorway into my study.
Ultimately, all humanity needs to be reborn through Christ, but 2000 years ago, not everyone had access to Jesus. So should God do nothing? No, God has shared and inspired different faiths, as way of moving people from a more dark spiritual location to a lighter spiritual location where he could be more present than otherwise.
The problem of course, is that human beings are fallen and therefore, we have an inbuilt (via the fall of our ancestors) tendency towards corruption, one we constantly have to fight against. So even if God inspires a religion, and works though a founder (a prophet, a teacher, etc) to share some level of truth that is an improvement over the preceding ignorance, we humans tend to mess up and distort what we get.
Example, again. Buddha. Buddha's understanding of the truth was imperfect, but he got some things right, and managed to bring hundreds of thousands and millions out of a greater darkness into a relatively greater light. Yet, he also said to his disciples, "do NOT write down what I teach you! (but practice it)" After he died, the first thing they did? Write down all his teachings!!! Bwahahaha. So you see, religions are imperfect because the people - us - who inherit or practice or establish them are not perfect.
Jesus did NOT establish Christianity. He taught his message, and fulfilled the mission of opening the doorway to spiritual salvation. After Jesus ascended (40 days after resurrection) to the spiritual world, the disciples were left behind to try and figure out what to do, how to do it. St Paul himself ("now we see in a mirror dimly" Paul) was a key figure in establishing Christianity.
So even though Jesus is perfect, Christianity is not. That should be 100% obvious to anyone who knows anything about Christian history. But, some Christians confuse Jesus' perfection with Christian perfection, and in doing so, they condemn all other faiths as being evil. People who are NOT Christian, like yourself, but who are thinking (or trying) to think logically, can see what is obvious: it makes no sense that a God of love would simply condemn any of his children due to ignorance.
Unfortunately, because the level of logical and intellectual understanding at the time of St Peter, St Paul, etc, was very limited, over the 2000 years of Christian history, many Christians have had to "turn off" their logical thinking because there have been too many confusions, theological contradictions, omissions etc, in Christian faith.
Personally, I very strongly believe that the time is coming, if not very, very close, when God is going to reveal a LOT more about spiritual reality and the truth, in ways that will lift us up, even beyond religion, to a place where our understanding of spiritual reality does not contradict or conflict with our understanding of the material universe. God created both the spiritual world and the material world. So it is really very logical that at some point, if we "know, even as I am known" we'll come to grasp spiritual reality and physical reality in a unified way, because both that aspects of reality are from the single one Creator, our Heavenly Father.
But to get there, we're going to have to be a lot more open and a lot less tied to theologies and theological understandings that are 2000, 1600, 1200, or 400 years old, we're going to have to really seek God's understanding and wisdom in humility. Jesus promised that if we do that, then indeed we will be guided "into all truth".
Addendum: I should point out that what I'm saying here does not, I believe, contradict what u/SuddenRealization above has shared with you. He's shared the scriptures that point to that exclusivity, which I 100% fully affirm. Jesus Christ is THE doorway to God and salvation.
However, Jesus spoke a LOT in parables and figures. Sometime when his words are taken literally, they result in illogical conclusions. So the real question is, what is Jesus saying to me here, and what kind of relationship is he guiding me to connect with him through?
Eg. Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.
Obviously, Jesus is NOT telling people to commit suicide. Rather, he is saying that when you love God and Jesus more than you love your own life, then the doorway to true life will open.
Different theologians all have their own interpretations and beliefs, but no theologian can open the doorway to eternal life. The can, imperfectly, point the way towards or even away from Jesus. What really counts for YOU is connecting with Jesus, but always having the heart of humility that you started with: "all I know is that I know nothing".
Being humble before God is where it all starts. Theologians might help you or they may not. And even if you think they do, the important thing is to bring that to God and offer it to God and ask God always to guide you. Just realize that neither God nor Jesus are theologians. God is your father, and Jesus is the doorway to your father, your best guide and the best friend you will ever know, should you choose to know him.
Jesus claimed exclusivity. We're having this conversation because God is calling you, asking you to see the truth. Jesus did not leave a "middle way" option open.
Matthew 10
32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
“‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law— 36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’
37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it."
If you are uncertain why Jesus, check out https://carm.org/atheism/why-believe-in-christianity-over-all-other-religions/