I was on submarines for awhile. This was bound to happen. There is a video of their CEO saying he doesn’t hire ex submariners, because 50 year old white guys are not inspiring. That idea alone explains why this happened. Typical lefty rich guy idiocy.
The list of problems I saw in these videos is endless. Many of the talking points they use are theoretical. Its max depth is theoretical. It’s never been down to its advertised max. And you are supposed to have reserve depth. So if they claim 4K meters as max operating depth, there should be 500 meters to max crush depth. To give you a reserve. And that should be tested. They should have sent one down and see how far it can actually go before failing.
The life support was a joke and never tested. They didn’t put 5 people in that thing for 96 hours to see what happens. It’s not just a matter of oxygen. You have to scrub air, remove gases. It’s a balancing act. If you get too much oxygen, the air literally explodes into flame from any minute electrical spark. Like one of the Apollos.
It’s carbon fiber with titanium hood bonded onto it. How many times can that cycle between depths before failure? They have no idea. It’s never been done. Usually these super deep vehicles are total spheres, made of metal. This wasn’t a sphere, meaning the pressure is applied unevenly. All it takes is a dent in the carbon weave to create a weak point and it will crush like a Coke can.
They don’t have emergency transponders. This is lunacy. There should be a fail safe transponder that much be reset manually every hour or so. If someone doesn’t reset the thing, it automatically begins sending a signal that can be picked up on the surface for locating. So if the gases get fucked up and everyone passes out, or they lose comms and electrical, the surface ship will get an emergency signal.
They have zero contingency plans in case a sub disappears. No backup sub. No plans. Just praying the inevitable never happens. They don’t even have a contract plan with another company that has DSRV, to establish some sort of within 24 hour response time. Anything. Any kind of plan on what to do when a sub disappears.
Apparently they lost comms all the time. This wasn’t solved. Why? That’s lunacy as well. If you can’t rely on your comms, when bad shit does happen, people are just gonna assume the best. It’s gonna cost you an entire day of rescue time because the people up top are gonna assume it’s just bad comms. Not an emergency. There are plenty of ways to keep comms going. If the system they had didn’t work, they should have spent the money to get one that does.
They lost comms 90 minutes in as the sub reached the bottom. I’m assuming it suffered catastrophic hull failure and everyone was vaporized instantly. They will struggle to ever find this thing. It’s tiny, made of carbon that isn’t a great reflector of sound waves, and it’s almost 3 miles down in the endless chasm of deep ocean.
Now they will pass regulations for these things. Regulations the Navy already learned from the Thresher and Scorpion. That’s why you hire sub veterans. Because we already paid the price in blood. It’s always the same for humans. We never learn. We always think we are smarter than the other guy. This fancy carbon fiber shiny vehicle built by college students.
Regulations are always written in blood. It never changes.
Bingo. I would have been a whistle blower as soon as I found out that maniac was sending people down 12k feet in that thing. That is fucking deep. At least 10 times deeper than modern military platforms tend to go.
The compression at that depth must have been crazy. As you dive in a steel sub, it shrinks considerably. You can hear it. Stretch a line taught across bulkheads and then dive and it becomes loose. You start with a foot of free space outside your rack, and later you have 6 inches.
What does that do to carbon fiber and the bonding area where the titanium is literally glued on? They don’t expand and contract at the same rate. What if the titanium shrinks less than the carbon? Or more? We are talking inches here. It compresses that much.
My guess is they had a failure of the hatch, which the manufacturer plainly stated wasn’t rated for 3k meters, or a failure at the meeting area between carbon and hatch.
That’s why the deep subs are just usually big ass spheres of one metal. James Cameron’s sub he built for the Mariana Trench is a great example.
The utter hubris of this company. I really hope it was fast. Those poor saps that got conned into going on that death machine.
There is a video of their CEO saying he doesn’t hire ex submariners, because 50 year old white guys are not inspiring. That idea alone explains why this happened. Typical lefty rich guy idiocy.“
Yes, and It’s also more than just virtue signaling about inspirational diversity. Stockton Rush is a 61 year old white guy. He is afraid of being surpassed by his own kind who are a decade younger than he is. He jealously guards his own status by giving opportunities to the diversity whom he doesn’t really respect and whose level of competence doesn’t make him feel threatened.
Not even a safety tether from the support vessel above! To me this would have been the easiest back up in case something happened. With that safety tether, an optical communication line could have been rigged.
It’s a genuinely terrifying environment for a human to be. Aside from the bottom of a volcano, it’s hard to imagine a more dangerous place to be. The bubble of air you live in is an aberration of nature. The entire weight of the ocean is trying every single second to correct you out of existence. You don’t get small problems. Even modern 2 billion dollar nuclear submarines are a balancing act of danger. It’s a never ending fight to be trained enough to not die if something happens. And hope you don’t have an equipment failure that can’t be corrected.
Never should have turned it into a tourist trip. Especially 2 miles plus deep. It’s dangerous enough doing it over coral reefs in the Bahamas for tourists. Humans don’t need to be down there, robots can do it. It’s pure ego. And a sense of invulnerability by rich people who have gotten away with other risky behavior.
I wouldn’t have gone down in that death trap for any amount of money. Hell no. Surrounded by a bunch of naive college kids. Like it was a sky diving trip or something. I hope it was fast. Not a good way to depart this earth.
Thank you for your expert analysis of this tragedy looking for a place to happen. If they would have taken the time to consult people such as yourself, this would have never happened. Short cutting hard won knowledge is seldom successful as the lessons learned from such a arrogant endeavor have been learned already by others. This is sadly an example of gross egotistical stupidity that has now resulted in unnecessary loss of life.
I worked in R&D electrical engineering years ago and learned quickly that what appears workable theoretically often does not meet expectations in the actual application. Engineers and some project mangers, often have type A egos bigger than the state of Texas. Those anons that are either engineers, or work with engineers, know exactly what I mean. Their egos and overestimation of their own abilities can most certainly lead to tragedies like this sub.
Before moving forward with any project, I utilized the expertise and input of various people at all stages of production and operation - including repair. Their insight was critical. I never wanted anyone hurt, or worse yet killed, from anything I put my hand to. With the help of God, he taught me how to keep my ego in check and take the time and effort to humbly consult with those that knew more concerning their particular wheelhouse - heaven forbid I should tell a veteran how to do their job or to underestimate the importance of their experience. No one was ever hurt or killed on any project I ever worked with due to lack of working out the bugs prior to launch - thank God. Neither was any project I worked on called back to be reengineered because of lack of sufficient problem solving prior to production.
Ive been in commercial roofing for over 30 years. the biggest thing that popped out to me was when I saw that titanium ring being bonded to the hull.
first thought?
2 different material types, which expand and contract at different rates.
something we have to pay attention to in commercial roofing, especially when we design systems to withstand 100 degrees outside and rainstorm comes through and drops temp by 30 degrees quickly.
we call it thermal shock.
thus you are relying on that adhesive.
crazy
thanks for the post, OP. even better than the video, imo
The 1986 Challenger explosion was due to the unexpectedly cold weather causing the fuel tank o-rings to contract differently than the material they were fitted onto, causing fuel fumes to leak out near the o-rings. The leaking fumes formed a downward stream that got too close to the booster fire at the bottom of the rocket. The fumes ignited and burned back up to the o-rings and into the fuel tanks and then KaBoom.
I did some work with a roofing company as a young buck so I appreciate where you’re coming from. Installation on a pitch over 4/12 is tricky but the finished product sheds really well. Under 2/12 and the snow loading becomes a more serious issue.
I was on submarines for awhile. This was bound to happen. There is a video of their CEO saying he doesn’t hire ex submariners, because 50 year old white guys are not inspiring. That idea alone explains why this happened. Typical lefty rich guy idiocy.
The list of problems I saw in these videos is endless. Many of the talking points they use are theoretical. Its max depth is theoretical. It’s never been down to its advertised max. And you are supposed to have reserve depth. So if they claim 4K meters as max operating depth, there should be 500 meters to max crush depth. To give you a reserve. And that should be tested. They should have sent one down and see how far it can actually go before failing.
The life support was a joke and never tested. They didn’t put 5 people in that thing for 96 hours to see what happens. It’s not just a matter of oxygen. You have to scrub air, remove gases. It’s a balancing act. If you get too much oxygen, the air literally explodes into flame from any minute electrical spark. Like one of the Apollos.
It’s carbon fiber with titanium hood bonded onto it. How many times can that cycle between depths before failure? They have no idea. It’s never been done. Usually these super deep vehicles are total spheres, made of metal. This wasn’t a sphere, meaning the pressure is applied unevenly. All it takes is a dent in the carbon weave to create a weak point and it will crush like a Coke can.
They don’t have emergency transponders. This is lunacy. There should be a fail safe transponder that much be reset manually every hour or so. If someone doesn’t reset the thing, it automatically begins sending a signal that can be picked up on the surface for locating. So if the gases get fucked up and everyone passes out, or they lose comms and electrical, the surface ship will get an emergency signal.
They have zero contingency plans in case a sub disappears. No backup sub. No plans. Just praying the inevitable never happens. They don’t even have a contract plan with another company that has DSRV, to establish some sort of within 24 hour response time. Anything. Any kind of plan on what to do when a sub disappears.
Apparently they lost comms all the time. This wasn’t solved. Why? That’s lunacy as well. If you can’t rely on your comms, when bad shit does happen, people are just gonna assume the best. It’s gonna cost you an entire day of rescue time because the people up top are gonna assume it’s just bad comms. Not an emergency. There are plenty of ways to keep comms going. If the system they had didn’t work, they should have spent the money to get one that does.
They lost comms 90 minutes in as the sub reached the bottom. I’m assuming it suffered catastrophic hull failure and everyone was vaporized instantly. They will struggle to ever find this thing. It’s tiny, made of carbon that isn’t a great reflector of sound waves, and it’s almost 3 miles down in the endless chasm of deep ocean.
Now they will pass regulations for these things. Regulations the Navy already learned from the Thresher and Scorpion. That’s why you hire sub veterans. Because we already paid the price in blood. It’s always the same for humans. We never learn. We always think we are smarter than the other guy. This fancy carbon fiber shiny vehicle built by college students.
Regulations are always written in blood. It never changes.
Fantastic post! Thanks for illustrating how their hubris was their ultimate undoing.
I'm thinking they probably don't want Sub Veterans because this is some Terramar connected shit.
They would be shocked by the amateur construction and lack of safety protocols.
Bingo. I would have been a whistle blower as soon as I found out that maniac was sending people down 12k feet in that thing. That is fucking deep. At least 10 times deeper than modern military platforms tend to go.
The compression at that depth must have been crazy. As you dive in a steel sub, it shrinks considerably. You can hear it. Stretch a line taught across bulkheads and then dive and it becomes loose. You start with a foot of free space outside your rack, and later you have 6 inches.
What does that do to carbon fiber and the bonding area where the titanium is literally glued on? They don’t expand and contract at the same rate. What if the titanium shrinks less than the carbon? Or more? We are talking inches here. It compresses that much.
My guess is they had a failure of the hatch, which the manufacturer plainly stated wasn’t rated for 3k meters, or a failure at the meeting area between carbon and hatch.
That’s why the deep subs are just usually big ass spheres of one metal. James Cameron’s sub he built for the Mariana Trench is a great example.
The utter hubris of this company. I really hope it was fast. Those poor saps that got conned into going on that death machine.
I'll bet this is it right here. Good call.
Do we know of any video showing these five getting into the sub that day?
The mere people got them. Or the collosul squid did. I like your thought on terramar.
great info u/Boozy_McFuckFace thanks
Wow I can’t upvote more than once! Well detailed Anon!
Agree
Great post and great name
Yep, and my new cutdown ...
"Listen here, Boozy McFkFace...!
I'm starting to wonder if this was the point - either disappearing these 5 souls (or making people think you did)
Thank you for the details; this whole operation looks so incompetent that I'm surprised the submarine didn't have a screen door.
Yes, and It’s also more than just virtue signaling about inspirational diversity. Stockton Rush is a 61 year old white guy. He is afraid of being surpassed by his own kind who are a decade younger than he is. He jealously guards his own status by giving opportunities to the diversity whom he doesn’t really respect and whose level of competence doesn’t make him feel threatened.
The Titan should be called Shroedenger's Sub. It makes me anxious. Its all so terrible.
Not even a safety tether from the support vessel above! To me this would have been the easiest back up in case something happened. With that safety tether, an optical communication line could have been rigged.
Thanks for this information. Too bad they didn't have an experienced white guy like you on their team. Maybe they'd be alive.
It’s a genuinely terrifying environment for a human to be. Aside from the bottom of a volcano, it’s hard to imagine a more dangerous place to be. The bubble of air you live in is an aberration of nature. The entire weight of the ocean is trying every single second to correct you out of existence. You don’t get small problems. Even modern 2 billion dollar nuclear submarines are a balancing act of danger. It’s a never ending fight to be trained enough to not die if something happens. And hope you don’t have an equipment failure that can’t be corrected.
Never should have turned it into a tourist trip. Especially 2 miles plus deep. It’s dangerous enough doing it over coral reefs in the Bahamas for tourists. Humans don’t need to be down there, robots can do it. It’s pure ego. And a sense of invulnerability by rich people who have gotten away with other risky behavior.
I wouldn’t have gone down in that death trap for any amount of money. Hell no. Surrounded by a bunch of naive college kids. Like it was a sky diving trip or something. I hope it was fast. Not a good way to depart this earth.
Quality post! This reminds me of how Reddit USED to be.
Excellent write up.
Your analysis is spot on every point Boozy! Impossible to understand this level of incompetence.
As usual, your stuff rocks and totally belies the username :p
Thank you for your expert analysis of this tragedy looking for a place to happen. If they would have taken the time to consult people such as yourself, this would have never happened. Short cutting hard won knowledge is seldom successful as the lessons learned from such a arrogant endeavor have been learned already by others. This is sadly an example of gross egotistical stupidity that has now resulted in unnecessary loss of life.
I worked in R&D electrical engineering years ago and learned quickly that what appears workable theoretically often does not meet expectations in the actual application. Engineers and some project mangers, often have type A egos bigger than the state of Texas. Those anons that are either engineers, or work with engineers, know exactly what I mean. Their egos and overestimation of their own abilities can most certainly lead to tragedies like this sub.
Before moving forward with any project, I utilized the expertise and input of various people at all stages of production and operation - including repair. Their insight was critical. I never wanted anyone hurt, or worse yet killed, from anything I put my hand to. With the help of God, he taught me how to keep my ego in check and take the time and effort to humbly consult with those that knew more concerning their particular wheelhouse - heaven forbid I should tell a veteran how to do their job or to underestimate the importance of their experience. No one was ever hurt or killed on any project I ever worked with due to lack of working out the bugs prior to launch - thank God. Neither was any project I worked on called back to be reengineered because of lack of sufficient problem solving prior to production.
Thank you for your service.
Ive been in commercial roofing for over 30 years. the biggest thing that popped out to me was when I saw that titanium ring being bonded to the hull.
first thought?
2 different material types, which expand and contract at different rates.
something we have to pay attention to in commercial roofing, especially when we design systems to withstand 100 degrees outside and rainstorm comes through and drops temp by 30 degrees quickly.
we call it thermal shock.
thus you are relying on that adhesive.
crazy
thanks for the post, OP. even better than the video, imo
The 1986 Challenger explosion was due to the unexpectedly cold weather causing the fuel tank o-rings to contract differently than the material they were fitted onto, causing fuel fumes to leak out near the o-rings. The leaking fumes formed a downward stream that got too close to the booster fire at the bottom of the rocket. The fumes ignited and burned back up to the o-rings and into the fuel tanks and then KaBoom.
Wow, forgot about that, but you are 100% correct.
That thermal issue is something us stupid roofers think a lot about, but NASA missed it in that case.
Ive thought about that O ring issue in past and to be honest?
Material science engineers are friggin amazingly smart, but to be in the field and see shiat fail is a whole different ballgame.
Thankfully, i have never installed a roof that failed and killed people, but it does occur.
For those that do not know?
Your shingle roof is never a danger. It is what we call a water shedder.
A flat roof?
Whole different animal. It is what we refer to as a water diverter.
And you better damn well make sure it is properly diverted.
I did some work with a roofing company as a young buck so I appreciate where you’re coming from. Installation on a pitch over 4/12 is tricky but the finished product sheds really well. Under 2/12 and the snow loading becomes a more serious issue.
Holy shit this was an amazing and succinct, yet somehow exhilarating, read. Thank you!
Not all humans are that stupid....