Having been in the drug culture since 71...I have seen lives destroyed by drugs...and this is before fentynal hit the scene..there needs to be mandatory treatment for users death penalty for dealers. Cruise missles to cartel haciendas and alligators in the rio grande
Same boat of perspective fren, I concur. There should be a WH led operation to obliterate the cartels world wide.
But sure, legalize cannabis. Its safer than alcohol and actually can be theraputic. Perhaps even psilocybin as well, it can be very beneficial.
But, for all of the terribly hard stuff that 9 out of 10 users can't control as functional addicts we need to bring back the asylum systems. Clean up the streets of the addicts, the crazies, and the homeless. Three birds stoned at once.
As history has shown, prohibition leads to black markets. If we cant come up with a system that is both fair to a sober society and the elements that fall outside its boundary then the solution is flawed from inception and susceptible to corruption and failure. Leading us back to square one.
memes aside, I kind of strongly disagree since a lot of "drugs" are just medicines being abused; for example painkiller substances can be used to numb pain medicinally, or people abuse them "recreationally" at times. idk why you should have to "get permission" (like with a prescription) to grow, buy, or sell your own medicine. It can seem kind of authoritarian, and concerning if you want to secure access to meds.
Dude it's totally out of control now...it's like no one knew what fentynal meth results in...but thousands are too stupid to hear...we have to make purveyors of hard drugs feel a harsh penalty. I guarentee it will slow it down..then seal the border
I’ve never touched any of it. Not even tobacco. That being said, I’d rather people make up their own minds about it and not the government. The black market for these things make criminals rich and cause more danger to the general public than the substance itself. IMO
yeah, that's bad. It's also important to consider that if legal, there is a market for treating and preventing addiction (which might have more freedom to operate to help people)
I guess my question would be if there was something else that could be done to prevent violence associated with drug use... I mean, alcohol is a "hard" drug that's currently illegal and society is somewhat functional around that legality? Which is why I think perhaps there's something about creating a culture that doesn't think they need to get high and overdose on drugs, in order for us to successfully have legal drugs exist.
If you legalize all drugs then you should legalize all prescription drugs and allow purchases OTC. just put everything on the shelf and have doctors tell you what you need. i’m sure it would be a catastrophe and dangerous to many but so are black market drugs.
Actually this is kind of where I started, I was thinking I should be able to grow my own medicine (like pain medicine often comes from poppies) and kind of thinking it was weird some people need prescriptions to be able to buy the medication they need in a store and wondering why it wasn't legal
I'm not sure what I think about legalization. I know what we're currently doing isn't working. Whether legalization is worse or better is an open question. Sometimes I think having places such as historical opium dens, but with more humane facilities, might be a partial solution.
There's also (at least) three separate considerations. One is the use and the health aspects to the individual, and the costs borne by the rest of us.
An other is the actions individuals under the influence take, and the costs to the rest of us.
And lastly there are the activities related to circumventing the existing laws - basically smuggling, turf wars, trafficking violence, etc.
That said, I think this is an example of something that should be the domain of the individual states - the only thing the feds should be involved in is importation.
do you have any more posts or things to say about your philosophy of "Wholesome Endeavor"? I really like that idea
I kind of agree and it almost doesn't matter if drugs are legal or not; there are a lot of illegal drugs that people still seek out, and legal addictive drugs that people abuse. But people can also choose to avoid legal or illegal drugs if they have enough Wholesome Endeavors to focus on; if they don't have that I'm not sure our law will protect people from themselves
I’ve worked long enough in some pretty iffy areas as far as drug use is concerned. So I’ve dealt with enough users both high and coming down off their highs to say that legalization of crack, meth, Cocaine etc. Is probably a very bad idea.
There however is an argument to be made for Weed, and for some Pyschdelics under controlled situations.
I get the Libertarian sentiments. Truly I do. But anecdotally. My personal experience is that it’s going to end up being one of those idealistic things that sounds good on paper but is a disaster when actually put into practice.
I’d be curious if you could elaborate on what you mean by:
societal infrastructure for discouraging the abuse of drugs and to help people who become addicts
We’ve had PSAs, We’ve had documentaries, We’ve had DARE programs, We’ve got laws. None seem to be a sufficient enough discouragement and deterrent. How would your idea be different?
That's a good question, I don't know if I have too much to contribute that's "unique", but I did see an anti-drug pamphlet recently and... it's not how I would go about it.
One problem is these programs peddle things that are false, and once people learn the truth, they start to think maybe drugs are ok or not as bad as they thought. So it's important to maybe talk honestly and clearly about things.
I guess my philosophy is that people turn to drugs when some kind of need or desire isn't met, and they could basically just meet that need or desire in healthy ways.
I classify drugs into three basic categories of uppers (give energy), downers (give relaxation), and psychedelics (stimulate the mind). Does that cover all of them, and if not what am I missing? For something like an upper substitute, a person could exercise, or for downers a person could relax, or for psychedelics people could consume pieces of art. I think that's a simplistic way of describing it - does that seem clear? So possibly they just need some healthy substitute, and if they don't have that, they try to fill things with drugs.
So if we have a culture that already has people who have decent fulfillment, they won't turn to legal or illegal drugs. We already have things like alcohol that not everyone thinks to themselves, "wow that's legal, I need to go get drunk off it". I remember Ron Paul had asked people that if heroin was legal, would they go shoot up tomorrow or whatever? Probably a lot of people wouldn't, so if we can create this kind of culture of "alcohol's legal, but I only have a glass of wine now and then at dinner" then I think we would have less drug problems.
I suppose if such a culture existed as well, it would vote to legalize drugs anyway without concern of them being abused.
Having been in the drug culture since 71...I have seen lives destroyed by drugs...and this is before fentynal hit the scene..there needs to be mandatory treatment for users death penalty for dealers. Cruise missles to cartel haciendas and alligators in the rio grande
Same boat of perspective fren, I concur. There should be a WH led operation to obliterate the cartels world wide.
But sure, legalize cannabis. Its safer than alcohol and actually can be theraputic. Perhaps even psilocybin as well, it can be very beneficial.
But, for all of the terribly hard stuff that 9 out of 10 users can't control as functional addicts we need to bring back the asylum systems. Clean up the streets of the addicts, the crazies, and the homeless. Three birds stoned at once.
As history has shown, prohibition leads to black markets. If we cant come up with a system that is both fair to a sober society and the elements that fall outside its boundary then the solution is flawed from inception and susceptible to corruption and failure. Leading us back to square one.
Plus total boycott of chyna as they provide the ingredients
I wouldn't be opposed to sending addicts to Rythmia in costa rico for auyasca treatments
"land of the free" ... "O say can you see"
memes aside, I kind of strongly disagree since a lot of "drugs" are just medicines being abused; for example painkiller substances can be used to numb pain medicinally, or people abuse them "recreationally" at times. idk why you should have to "get permission" (like with a prescription) to grow, buy, or sell your own medicine. It can seem kind of authoritarian, and concerning if you want to secure access to meds.
Dude it's totally out of control now...it's like no one knew what fentynal meth results in...but thousands are too stupid to hear...we have to make purveyors of hard drugs feel a harsh penalty. I guarentee it will slow it down..then seal the border
I think this post belongs in the general chat for the day
You are 100% right.
It's a really good talking point.
We are not here for general political talk.
And it can be a very controversial.
I commented there as well if you want to discuss there additionally I guess
I’ve never touched any of it. Not even tobacco. That being said, I’d rather people make up their own minds about it and not the government. The black market for these things make criminals rich and cause more danger to the general public than the substance itself. IMO
Look up kensington ave in philly .bent over zombies
yeah, that's bad. It's also important to consider that if legal, there is a market for treating and preventing addiction (which might have more freedom to operate to help people)
Both of these say a loud NO!!!
Vancouver is Dying https://rumble.com/v2v2mbq--vancouver-is-dying-full-documentary-by-aaron-gunn.html
Canada is Dying https://rumble.com/v2pxap0--canada-is-dying-an-aaron-gunn-documentary-about-the-surge-in-violent-crime.html
I guess my question would be if there was something else that could be done to prevent violence associated with drug use... I mean, alcohol is a "hard" drug that's currently illegal and society is somewhat functional around that legality? Which is why I think perhaps there's something about creating a culture that doesn't think they need to get high and overdose on drugs, in order for us to successfully have legal drugs exist.
If you legalize all drugs then you should legalize all prescription drugs and allow purchases OTC. just put everything on the shelf and have doctors tell you what you need. i’m sure it would be a catastrophe and dangerous to many but so are black market drugs.
Actually this is kind of where I started, I was thinking I should be able to grow my own medicine (like pain medicine often comes from poppies) and kind of thinking it was weird some people need prescriptions to be able to buy the medication they need in a store and wondering why it wasn't legal
It's legal to grow opium poppies in usa...it's the processing that's illegal
I appreciate the clarification, so it's: illegal with extra steps
If they catch you
No
I'm not sure what I think about legalization. I know what we're currently doing isn't working. Whether legalization is worse or better is an open question. Sometimes I think having places such as historical opium dens, but with more humane facilities, might be a partial solution.
There's also (at least) three separate considerations. One is the use and the health aspects to the individual, and the costs borne by the rest of us.
An other is the actions individuals under the influence take, and the costs to the rest of us.
And lastly there are the activities related to circumventing the existing laws - basically smuggling, turf wars, trafficking violence, etc.
That said, I think this is an example of something that should be the domain of the individual states - the only thing the feds should be involved in is importation.
Until society, culture, populations, practice, promote, perpetuate what I call "Wholesome Endeavor" many will turn to drugs to fill the void.
By wholesome endeavor I mean actively inspiring, creating, building, repairing, exploring, learning, teaching, uplifting, comforting, healing, loving, assisting, praying,
This is where we find deep satisfaction. This is where we find GOD.
Those who discovered their unique constellation of talents and went to work using them in service to the world already know this.
The lost will make waste with drugs and video games as World Economic Forum "prophet" Yuval Harari has prescribed.
I will add- mothering, fathering, and nurturing to my list of "Wholesome Endeavors'
do you have any more posts or things to say about your philosophy of "Wholesome Endeavor"? I really like that idea
I kind of agree and it almost doesn't matter if drugs are legal or not; there are a lot of illegal drugs that people still seek out, and legal addictive drugs that people abuse. But people can also choose to avoid legal or illegal drugs if they have enough Wholesome Endeavors to focus on; if they don't have that I'm not sure our law will protect people from themselves
I’ve worked long enough in some pretty iffy areas as far as drug use is concerned. So I’ve dealt with enough users both high and coming down off their highs to say that legalization of crack, meth, Cocaine etc. Is probably a very bad idea.
There however is an argument to be made for Weed, and for some Pyschdelics under controlled situations.
I get the Libertarian sentiments. Truly I do. But anecdotally. My personal experience is that it’s going to end up being one of those idealistic things that sounds good on paper but is a disaster when actually put into practice.
I’d be curious if you could elaborate on what you mean by:
We’ve had PSAs, We’ve had documentaries, We’ve had DARE programs, We’ve got laws. None seem to be a sufficient enough discouragement and deterrent. How would your idea be different?
That's a good question, I don't know if I have too much to contribute that's "unique", but I did see an anti-drug pamphlet recently and... it's not how I would go about it.
One problem is these programs peddle things that are false, and once people learn the truth, they start to think maybe drugs are ok or not as bad as they thought. So it's important to maybe talk honestly and clearly about things.
I guess my philosophy is that people turn to drugs when some kind of need or desire isn't met, and they could basically just meet that need or desire in healthy ways.
I classify drugs into three basic categories of uppers (give energy), downers (give relaxation), and psychedelics (stimulate the mind). Does that cover all of them, and if not what am I missing? For something like an upper substitute, a person could exercise, or for downers a person could relax, or for psychedelics people could consume pieces of art. I think that's a simplistic way of describing it - does that seem clear? So possibly they just need some healthy substitute, and if they don't have that, they try to fill things with drugs.
So if we have a culture that already has people who have decent fulfillment, they won't turn to legal or illegal drugs. We already have things like alcohol that not everyone thinks to themselves, "wow that's legal, I need to go get drunk off it". I remember Ron Paul had asked people that if heroin was legal, would they go shoot up tomorrow or whatever? Probably a lot of people wouldn't, so if we can create this kind of culture of "alcohol's legal, but I only have a glass of wine now and then at dinner" then I think we would have less drug problems.
I suppose if such a culture existed as well, it would vote to legalize drugs anyway without concern of them being abused.