Catholics use ONE VERSE, taken out of context, to justify the ENTIRE CATHOLIC CHURCH! The verse is Matthew 16:18
"And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it". Peter was expressing his faith in Jesus as the Christ. It was Peter's faith that Jesus was referring to when saying "on this rock". Numerous verses refer to faith as being the basis of salvation, not works. The Catholic church stresses works and adherence to rituals; rituals instituted by the Catholic church. The Old Testament is a long account of how rituals ("The Law") were a stumbling block to salvation of the Jews. Jesus came to fulfil the Law for all humans, resulting in no ritual, no work, NOTHING but the blood of Jesus, as the payment for our sins. So many Catholics experience the true freedom of Christ when they walk away from the Catholic church, and embrace the church of Jesus. I'm not saying that there are not saved Christians in the Catholic church, but it is clear the Catholic church is an example of how Satan can corrupt. Satan knows that he can't win, but tries numerous ways to hinder Christianity. What better way to hinder than to promote various aberrations of Christianity in the world; Catholicism, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, to name three. And the Protestant churches are not free of this, with many denominations caving to the ways of the world, accepting such abominations as "Gay marriage" among other things.
so how do you think the Catholic church misinterpreted 'on this rock?'
Occam's razor suggests Peter was in fact the rock, since Peter means rock.
I don't believe Catholics practice idolatry or ritual magic. Its all based on faith in God.
Of course that's not a defense of the official catholic church in recent years, which has become as infiltrated as any other public organization. all denominations of Christianity have been targeted for infiltration. ...and have always talked shit about each other anyways. i'm not sold yet.
Because "on this rock" is referring to the faith of Peter. Jesus called Peter ("rock"), because of his faith. The Christian church (fellowship of all Christians) is based on Jesus, not Peter or any other man. How does it magnify Christ to have the Catholic church include so many rituals and works? Does praying to Mary in Heaven glorify God? The Catholic church only allowed people to actually read the Bible very recently. It is so utterly clear, if you read through the Bible, that the Catholic church is so wrong on so many things. U.S. Treasury agents don't learn what counterfeit currency looks like. They only study real U.S. currency so that it is ingrained in their minds so indelibly that they IMMEDIATELY recognize when they are handling counterfeit bills. If you become familiar with the Bible enough, you IMMEDIATELY recognize false teaching, whether by the Catholic church, or any Protestant denomination or church. If you are a Christian, I encourage you to read through the entire Bible, and then see if what I am saying is not true. If you are not a Christian, the Bible may not make too much sense, so reading through the New Testament is a good start, but until you accept Jesus as your Savior, even reading the New Testament may not make sense. With Christianity, first you believe, then you see.
I can see where you're coming from, I just don't think the Catholic position is any less valid than your own. Does praying to the mother of God glorify God? Why shouldn't it?
to me it seems like the depth of symbolism in the Catholic church is indicative of the depth of symbolism in the Bible. Simple and complex are not mutually exclusive terms.
and hey, i've even resisted mentioning the whole 'faith without works' thing. in which i usually favour faith as well, but certainly not at the prohibition of 'works'.
Whenever i hear stuff against the Catholic church, its either from reeeing atheists, or the kind of people who think having a painting or poster on your wall or a wooden bracelet is idolatry. all of whom are entitled to their opinions...
but the only ones I find credible are those who point out that the pope is a pedophile and the church has been infiltrated. because that's not ridiculous.
the rest is just more of the same theological debate that's been going on since forever. honestly, I think that debate should be discouraged on GAW. this is not the place to gatekeep Christianity and push your own brand.
Jesus also told Simon Peter to "Get behind me, Satan," in that very same chapter of Matthew, when Peter suggested they shouldn't allow Jesus' sacrifice to manifest.
Christ restored our ability to have a right relationship with God. Our failings in that were the only reason the Israelites set up a monarchy in the first place. To believe that God needs an earthly monarchy in order to organize His Kingdom would be to say that God is incapable of reaching us personally.
The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
Yeshua (AKA Jesus), the master of parables, is comparing the pebble Cephas to Himself. the chief corner stone.
Matthew 21:42
Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
The rock is Jesus, not Peter. Paul agrees -
Ephesians 2:20
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
And so does Peter!
1 Peter 2:1-10
2 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
All you've said here is that Christ is the cornerstone, which nobody disagreed with in the first place. Peter's name is not an accident. and personally i'm not seeing anything that incriminates Catholics.
where's the distortion?
Catholics use ONE VERSE, taken out of context, to justify the ENTIRE CATHOLIC CHURCH! The verse is Matthew 16:18 "And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it". Peter was expressing his faith in Jesus as the Christ. It was Peter's faith that Jesus was referring to when saying "on this rock". Numerous verses refer to faith as being the basis of salvation, not works. The Catholic church stresses works and adherence to rituals; rituals instituted by the Catholic church. The Old Testament is a long account of how rituals ("The Law") were a stumbling block to salvation of the Jews. Jesus came to fulfil the Law for all humans, resulting in no ritual, no work, NOTHING but the blood of Jesus, as the payment for our sins. So many Catholics experience the true freedom of Christ when they walk away from the Catholic church, and embrace the church of Jesus. I'm not saying that there are not saved Christians in the Catholic church, but it is clear the Catholic church is an example of how Satan can corrupt. Satan knows that he can't win, but tries numerous ways to hinder Christianity. What better way to hinder than to promote various aberrations of Christianity in the world; Catholicism, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, to name three. And the Protestant churches are not free of this, with many denominations caving to the ways of the world, accepting such abominations as "Gay marriage" among other things.
so how do you think the Catholic church misinterpreted 'on this rock?'
Occam's razor suggests Peter was in fact the rock, since Peter means rock.
I don't believe Catholics practice idolatry or ritual magic. Its all based on faith in God.
Of course that's not a defense of the official catholic church in recent years, which has become as infiltrated as any other public organization. all denominations of Christianity have been targeted for infiltration. ...and have always talked shit about each other anyways. i'm not sold yet.
Because "on this rock" is referring to the faith of Peter. Jesus called Peter ("rock"), because of his faith. The Christian church (fellowship of all Christians) is based on Jesus, not Peter or any other man. How does it magnify Christ to have the Catholic church include so many rituals and works? Does praying to Mary in Heaven glorify God? The Catholic church only allowed people to actually read the Bible very recently. It is so utterly clear, if you read through the Bible, that the Catholic church is so wrong on so many things. U.S. Treasury agents don't learn what counterfeit currency looks like. They only study real U.S. currency so that it is ingrained in their minds so indelibly that they IMMEDIATELY recognize when they are handling counterfeit bills. If you become familiar with the Bible enough, you IMMEDIATELY recognize false teaching, whether by the Catholic church, or any Protestant denomination or church. If you are a Christian, I encourage you to read through the entire Bible, and then see if what I am saying is not true. If you are not a Christian, the Bible may not make too much sense, so reading through the New Testament is a good start, but until you accept Jesus as your Savior, even reading the New Testament may not make sense. With Christianity, first you believe, then you see.
"The Catholic church only allowed people to actually read the Bible very recently."
That is just a straight up lie.
The first book EVER printed was a Latin Bible.
I can see where you're coming from, I just don't think the Catholic position is any less valid than your own. Does praying to the mother of God glorify God? Why shouldn't it?
to me it seems like the depth of symbolism in the Catholic church is indicative of the depth of symbolism in the Bible. Simple and complex are not mutually exclusive terms.
and hey, i've even resisted mentioning the whole 'faith without works' thing. in which i usually favour faith as well, but certainly not at the prohibition of 'works'.
Whenever i hear stuff against the Catholic church, its either from reeeing atheists, or the kind of people who think having a painting or poster on your wall or a wooden bracelet is idolatry. all of whom are entitled to their opinions...
but the only ones I find credible are those who point out that the pope is a pedophile and the church has been infiltrated. because that's not ridiculous.
the rest is just more of the same theological debate that's been going on since forever. honestly, I think that debate should be discouraged on GAW. this is not the place to gatekeep Christianity and push your own brand.
Jesus also told Simon Peter to "Get behind me, Satan," in that very same chapter of Matthew, when Peter suggested they shouldn't allow Jesus' sacrifice to manifest.
Christ restored our ability to have a right relationship with God. Our failings in that were the only reason the Israelites set up a monarchy in the first place. To believe that God needs an earthly monarchy in order to organize His Kingdom would be to say that God is incapable of reaching us personally.
Peter, or Cephas here, means pebble.
Psalm 118:22
The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
Yeshua (AKA Jesus), the master of parables, is comparing the pebble Cephas to Himself. the chief corner stone.
Matthew 21:42
Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
The rock is Jesus, not Peter. Paul agrees -
Ephesians 2:20
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
And so does Peter!
1 Peter 2:1-10
2 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
All you've said here is that Christ is the cornerstone, which nobody disagreed with in the first place. Peter's name is not an accident. and personally i'm not seeing anything that incriminates Catholics.