Separation of church and state does not appear in the Constitution but in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury (CT) Baptist Church stating that government will not and shall not interfere in any denomination’s practices. It’s amazing how this has been misconstrued and misapplied.
They just slipped it into the textbooks and no one noticed.
I remember separation of church and state being emphasized as a core American value in history class. The textbook acknowledged it wasn't in the constitution but claimed the concept had been adhered to since the founding.
Just like that, an entire generation of kids were led to believe previous generations were hyper-concerned with keeping God out of government.
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF: Yet they shut down our churches during covid and even charged pastors with breaking their law.
"Separation is not about control of religion, it is about keeping religion OUT of Gov. and decisions of Law .The Fact that the USA was founded on GOD and STILL has In God WE Trust on our money, does not Force a person to Follow OUR GOD. The perfect example is islam, which makes their religion their law and will Never work in free world."
Bufordxl posted on my last post. Well said!
This is one of those things we have been manipulated into misunderstanding. The evils of this world are trying to remove God, period! We must learn history so we do not repeat it!
Never in their worst nightmares did the Founding Fathers ever dream that Hindus or Muslims would ever become citizens of the United States, let alone that they would ever run for or hold positions of political power.
Not sure how the founding fathers ever thought that Muslims would never be citizens of the US, seeing as how the US already had a Muslim population before the Revolutionary War.
Also odd that they specifically made freedom of religion the first amendment. Why would they bother to do that if they thought people of different religions would not be part of the US?
All the Founding Fathers weren't supportive of slavery. And some slaves had been granted freedom by their owners.
You seem to have ignored the fact that our founding fathers placed freedom of religion prominently in the First Amendment. Why would they do this if they didn't think people practicing those religions would one day be citizens?
Islam and Hinduism have long been two of the world's most popular religions. It wouldn't make sense for our founding fathers to believe that we would never have citizens that practiced these religions.
Its about keeping government out of religion dear. Think about why people left England and came here. Because government was insinuating itself into religion.
I believe it's both ways. But again religion not God. My point of this post is any time prayer or bibles in school are brought up, half the comments are "muh, church and state" sigh! Trying to use this post to hopefully educate!
The issue with prayer/Bible in schools is when public school employees, who are employed by the government, attempt to instruct students in religious issues (that are not part of school curriculum). Such as reading Bible verses over the intercom or leading students in prayer. This is because the government is not supposed to show preference for one religion over any other.
But students are allowed to read the Bible during their free time and are allowed student-led prayer, such as "See You At the Pole" and have student led religious clubs.
Christianity has long been the most prevalent religion in America, so in the past there wasn't really any major pushback when schools would violate the Establishment Clause and have school employees lead students in prayer. But religion in general has been on a steady decline in the US, and other religions are becoming more common. So Christianity no longer has the advantage it used to.
But I've always believed that religion should be left to home and church. Even ignoring the teachings of other religions, Christianity itself has such diverse dominations/beliefs that it's simply not a good idea to let school employees teach your children religion. I'm sure there are many Baptist parents who would be pissed off if a Catholic teacher told their children they should pray the rosary. Or a teacher who believes in predestination telling kids free will doesn't exist.
Agreed they should not teach it unless it's Catholic or another religion based school. However, Christian prayer and reading the bible are not allowed in some schools. But Muslims can pray...... This is an attack on Christianity IMHO
Which schools do not allow students to pray or read the Bible during their free time? Can you name them?
I follow this type of thing closely. Sometimes a teacher or other school employee misunderstands the Establishment Clause and will mistakenly stop students from reading the Bible or praying during their free time. Whenever it is brought to the attention of the school administration, the teacher will usually be informed of the law, the family involved will get an apology, and that is the end of it.
But if you know of a school that routinely denies students their First Amendment rights regarding reading the Bible or praying during their free time, please let me know. There are several groups that I know of that can help them.
Some topics are very triggering. Often times, those are the topics most worth discussing.
However, I try to remember Qs warning "Timing is EVERYTHING". From my own experience, this is true.
A sense of timing and an understanding of persuasion basics are very useful. And so is having tough enough skin to endure the inevitable triggered reactions; reactions that I now view as both necessary and positive.
Declaration of Independence is the primary document from which all legal interpretations are derived. It provides two fundamental basis for the States, amongst other things:
Establishment of an independant republic under Natural laws - Laws of God as interpreted under English common law.
Requirement of Governments, whose powers are explicitly limited via the Consitution.
Trying to remove God from State is not only foolish, but meaningless since all laws are derived from God's natural laws.
Separation was meant to be the government cannot chose what religion is taught or given any favor to any religion by law. It is a peoples choice, NOT the governments. When the government takes control of religion you get something like Roman Catholicism which was MANDATED the religion of Rome and all others were stamped out. Some people in Israel want to make the Jewish religion the ONLY religion in Israel and stamp out all others. The government should not mandate or get involved in peoples choice.
My understanding is that the Catholics are the ones that influenced this amendment. It was their "foot in the door" because this protestant nation was not all happy about them being here.
I do not need ( or allow) a law or a gov. to tell me what religion i can, or can not follow. I will enforce that with the 2nd Amendment to the Bill of Rights. It is amazing that, that is Exactly what the 2nd Amendment was written for.
Ancient Christian writings that are still influential among members of the Orthodox Christian Church say Christ did NOT come to create a new religion. Instead, Christ came to end the need for religions ie the need for priestly intermediaries between people and God.
According to these Orthodox writers, Christ made it possible to have a uniquely personal relationship with Him which eliminated the need for those priestly intermediaries.
Christ == a relationship =/= a religion
From my experience, some people who claim to be Christians act more like piety policing pharisees who were so scandalized by Christs unrepentant sacrilege that they had Christ crucified for blasphemy.
Separation of church and state does not appear in the Constitution but in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury (CT) Baptist Church stating that government will not and shall not interfere in any denomination’s practices. It’s amazing how this has been misconstrued and misapplied.
Was done on Purpose!
They just slipped it into the textbooks and no one noticed.
I remember separation of church and state being emphasized as a core American value in history class. The textbook acknowledged it wasn't in the constitution but claimed the concept had been adhered to since the founding.
Just like that, an entire generation of kids were led to believe previous generations were hyper-concerned with keeping God out of government.
Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF: Yet they shut down our churches during covid and even charged pastors with breaking their law.
"Separation is not about control of religion, it is about keeping religion OUT of Gov. and decisions of Law .The Fact that the USA was founded on GOD and STILL has In God WE Trust on our money, does not Force a person to Follow OUR GOD. The perfect example is islam, which makes their religion their law and will Never work in free world."
Bufordxl posted on my last post. Well said!
This is one of those things we have been manipulated into misunderstanding. The evils of this world are trying to remove God, period! We must learn history so we do not repeat it!
Never in their worst nightmares did the Founding Fathers ever dream that Hindus or Muslims would ever become citizens of the United States, let alone that they would ever run for or hold positions of political power.
“Our Posterity “, remember?
Not sure how the founding fathers ever thought that Muslims would never be citizens of the US, seeing as how the US already had a Muslim population before the Revolutionary War.
https://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/0205/tolerance.html#:~:text=The%20Founders%20of%20this%20nation,law%2Dabiding%2C%20productive%20citizens.
Also odd that they specifically made freedom of religion the first amendment. Why would they bother to do that if they thought people of different religions would not be part of the US?
A few hundred slaves and “workmen “. Not citizens, and certainly not elected officials.
All the Founding Fathers weren't supportive of slavery. And some slaves had been granted freedom by their owners.
You seem to have ignored the fact that our founding fathers placed freedom of religion prominently in the First Amendment. Why would they do this if they didn't think people practicing those religions would one day be citizens?
Islam and Hinduism have long been two of the world's most popular religions. It wouldn't make sense for our founding fathers to believe that we would never have citizens that practiced these religions.
Doesn't this still apply? These regions are not to be allowed in our laws. However they're allowed to have their own God in their heart. Right?
Its about keeping government out of religion dear. Think about why people left England and came here. Because government was insinuating itself into religion.
I believe it's both ways. But again religion not God. My point of this post is any time prayer or bibles in school are brought up, half the comments are "muh, church and state" sigh! Trying to use this post to hopefully educate!
The issue with prayer/Bible in schools is when public school employees, who are employed by the government, attempt to instruct students in religious issues (that are not part of school curriculum). Such as reading Bible verses over the intercom or leading students in prayer. This is because the government is not supposed to show preference for one religion over any other.
But students are allowed to read the Bible during their free time and are allowed student-led prayer, such as "See You At the Pole" and have student led religious clubs.
Christianity has long been the most prevalent religion in America, so in the past there wasn't really any major pushback when schools would violate the Establishment Clause and have school employees lead students in prayer. But religion in general has been on a steady decline in the US, and other religions are becoming more common. So Christianity no longer has the advantage it used to.
But I've always believed that religion should be left to home and church. Even ignoring the teachings of other religions, Christianity itself has such diverse dominations/beliefs that it's simply not a good idea to let school employees teach your children religion. I'm sure there are many Baptist parents who would be pissed off if a Catholic teacher told their children they should pray the rosary. Or a teacher who believes in predestination telling kids free will doesn't exist.
Agreed they should not teach it unless it's Catholic or another religion based school. However, Christian prayer and reading the bible are not allowed in some schools. But Muslims can pray...... This is an attack on Christianity IMHO
Which schools do not allow students to pray or read the Bible during their free time? Can you name them?
I follow this type of thing closely. Sometimes a teacher or other school employee misunderstands the Establishment Clause and will mistakenly stop students from reading the Bible or praying during their free time. Whenever it is brought to the attention of the school administration, the teacher will usually be informed of the law, the family involved will get an apology, and that is the end of it.
But if you know of a school that routinely denies students their First Amendment rights regarding reading the Bible or praying during their free time, please let me know. There are several groups that I know of that can help them.
Some topics are very triggering. Often times, those are the topics most worth discussing.
However, I try to remember Qs warning "Timing is EVERYTHING". From my own experience, this is true.
A sense of timing and an understanding of persuasion basics are very useful. And so is having tough enough skin to endure the inevitable triggered reactions; reactions that I now view as both necessary and positive.
My question is, this is so obvious, why has the twisted push to eliminate GOD from schools NOT been sent to the SCOTUS?
Correct.
Declaration of Independence is the primary document from which all legal interpretations are derived. It provides two fundamental basis for the States, amongst other things:
Establishment of an independant republic under Natural laws - Laws of God as interpreted under English common law.
Requirement of Governments, whose powers are explicitly limited via the Consitution.
Trying to remove God from State is not only foolish, but meaningless since all laws are derived from God's natural laws.
Well said
Is GOD a synonym for religion and if so, which religious sect is GOD and who decides?
Pharisees and sadducees?
God and religion are different. The post is about removing God from State.
Separation was meant to be the government cannot chose what religion is taught or given any favor to any religion by law. It is a peoples choice, NOT the governments. When the government takes control of religion you get something like Roman Catholicism which was MANDATED the religion of Rome and all others were stamped out. Some people in Israel want to make the Jewish religion the ONLY religion in Israel and stamp out all others. The government should not mandate or get involved in peoples choice.
My understanding is that the Catholics are the ones that influenced this amendment. It was their "foot in the door" because this protestant nation was not all happy about them being here.
I wouldn't doubt it!
Two thumbs up on this article. I knew it would come out of the woodwork one day. Thanks for finding it.
I do not need ( or allow) a law or a gov. to tell me what religion i can, or can not follow. I will enforce that with the 2nd Amendment to the Bill of Rights. It is amazing that, that is Exactly what the 2nd Amendment was written for.
Yes!!
Ancient Christian writings that are still influential among members of the Orthodox Christian Church say Christ did NOT come to create a new religion. Instead, Christ came to end the need for religions ie the need for priestly intermediaries between people and God.
According to these Orthodox writers, Christ made it possible to have a uniquely personal relationship with Him which eliminated the need for those priestly intermediaries.
Christ == a relationship =/= a religion
From my experience, some people who claim to be Christians act more like piety policing pharisees who were so scandalized by Christs unrepentant sacrilege that they had Christ crucified for blasphemy.
Well said