I've read and researched the topic of Bible translations ad nauseum for well over a decade, and still haven't landed on a definitive answer. So, I'll humbly ask you, PoP -- what is your preferred translation, and why?
FWIW...I have been using NJKV for a couple of years, but just recently returned to the NASB translation. I occasionally cross check passages from both of those against the original KJV.
I used NIV when I was in my 20s, but I feel upon closer inspection (and again, held up against other, more "proven" translations) that context is sometimes lost OR worse, changed or glossed over.
I don't have a preferred translation, per se, but if you check my post history, I usually quote from the King James Version. I also read the Geneva, Young's Literal Translation, and, depending on verse, I will check the NIV.
With that being said, there are many translations, but there are only 2 Bibles.
For the Old Testament, your choices are the three "oldest" manuscripts which survived in the Vatican library (Codex Vaticanus), in a trash can in a Roman Catholic convent on Mt. Sinai discovered by a 'Protestant' Tischendorf who had an audience with the Pope before going to the Holy Land and visiting the convent (Codex Sinaiticus), and Codex Alexandrinus OR
the Hebrew Masoretic text.
The Masoretic text is referred to as the "Hebrew Bible" in this AP article -
Scanning software deciphers ancient biblical scroll
Scholars have believed the Hebrew Bible in its standard form first came about some 2,000 years ago, but never had physical proof, until now, according to the study. Previously the oldest known fragments of the modern biblical text dated back to the 8th century.
The text discovered in the charred Ein Gedi scroll is “100 percent identical” to the version of the Book of Leviticus that has been in use for centuries, said Dead Sea Scroll scholar Emmanuel Tov from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, who participated in the study.
“This is quite amazing for us,” he said. “In 2,000 years, this text has not changed.”
As far as the New Testament, your choices are a Classical Greek or Koine Greek version.
The Classical Greek was only used by scholars and their students. Koine Greek was what the commoners in the Roman Empire spoke.
Which version was more likely to be used by the Apostles, do you think?
I choose the Koine Greek NT and Hebrew Masoretic OT myself.
The King James sounds more powerful and poetic to me than other versions.
Example -
Ephesians 6:10-19
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
Compare that to the NIV version, which is what Q used for drop 4429 -
At the time of the signing of the Constitution the predominant language spoken in America was Scottish. When the Pilgrims came to what would become America, the only Bible used at that time was the Geneva Bible.
For the first time in over 390 years, the complete 1599 edition of the Geneva Bible is again available! The Geneva Bible is the Bible with marginal notes authored by John Calvin, John Knox, Miles Coverdale, and many other leaders of the Reformation. The Geneva Bible was the predominant English translation during the period in which the English and Scottish Reformations gained great impetus. Iain Murray, in his classic work on revival and the interpretation of prophecy, The Puritan Hope, notes, "... the two groups in England and Scotland developed along parallel lines, like two streams originating at one fountain. The fountain was not so much Geneva, as the Bible which the exiles newly translated and issued with many marginal notes... it was read in every Presbyterian and Puritan home in both realms"
The Cambridge Geneva Bible of 1591 was the edition carried by the Pilgrims when they fled to America. As such, it directly provided much of the genius and inspiration which carried those courageous and faithful souls through their trials, and provided the spiritual, intellectual and legal basis for establishment and flourishing of the colonies. Thus, it became the foundation for establishment of the American Nation. This heritage makes it a Celestial Article indeed! And a treasured possession for any free man!
The 1560 Geneva Bible was the first to have Bible chapters divided into numbered verses. The translation is the work of religious leaders exiled from England after the death of King Edward VI in 1553. Almost every chapter has marginal notes to create greater understanding of scripture. The marginal notes often reflected Calvinistic and Protestant reformation influences, not yet accepted by the Church of England. King James I in the late 16th century pronounced the Geneva Bible marginal notes as being: "partial, untrue, seditious, and savouring of dangerous and traitorous conceits." In every copy of each edition the word "breeches" rather than "aprons" was used in Genesis 3:7, which accounts for why the Geneva Bible is sometime called the "Breeches" Bible. The Church of England never authorized or sanctioned the Geneva Bible. However, it was frequently used, without authority, both to read the scripture lessons, and to preach from. It was pre-eminent as a household Bible, and continued so until the middle of the 17th century. The convenient size, cheap price, chapters divided into numbered verses and extensive marginal notes were the cause of it's popularity
The Geneva Bible is a critical, yet almost completely forgotten part of the Protestant Reformation. Driven out of England by the persecutions of Bloody Mary, several future leaders of the Reformation came to Geneva to create a pure and accurate translation of the Holy Writ. Concerned about the influence that the Catholic Church had on the existing translations of the Bible from the Latin, these men turned to the original Hebrew and Greek texts to produce the Geneva Bible. This made the Geneva Bible the first complete Bible to be translated into English from the original Hebrew and Greek texts.
The creation of the Geneva Bible was a substantial undertaking. Its authors spent over two years, working diligently day and night by candlelight, to finish the translation and the commentaries. The entire project was funded by the exiled English congregation in Geneva, making the translation a work supported by the people and not by an authoritarian church or monarch.
All the marginal commentaries were finished by 1599, making the 1599 edition of the Geneva Bible the most complete study aide for Biblical scholars and students. This edition does not contain the Apocrypha. The Apocrypha’s notes are minimal or absent in other editions. Additional highlights of this edition include maps of the Exodus route and Joshua’s distribution of land, a name and subject index, and Psalms sung by the English congregation in Geneva.
The greatest distinction of the Geneva Bible, however, is the extensive collection of marginal notes that it contains. Prominent Reformation leaders such as John Calvin, John Knox, Miles Coverdale, William Whittingham, Theodore Beza, and Anthony Gilby wrote the majority of these notes in order to explain and interpret the scriptures. The notes comprise nearly 300,000 words, or nearly one-third the length of the Bible itself, and they are justifiably considered the most complete source of Protestant religious thought available.
Owing to the marginal notes and the superior quality of the translation, the Geneva Bible became the most widely read and influential English Bible of the 16th and 17th centuries. It was continually printed from 1560 to 1644 in over 200 different editions. It was the Bible of choice for many of the greatest writers, thinkers, and historical figures of the Reformation era. William Shakespeare’s plays and the writings of John Milton and John Bunyan were clearly influenced by the Geneva Bible. Oliver Cromwell issued a pamphlet containing excerpts from the Geneva Bible to his troops during the English Civil War. When the Pilgrims set sail on the Mayflower they took with them exclusively the Geneva Bible.
The marginal notes of the Geneva Bible enraged the Catholic Church, since the notes deemed the act of confession to men – the Catholic Bishops – as unjustified by Holy Script. Man should confess to God only; man’s private life was man’s private life. The notes also infuriated King James, since they allowed disobedience to tyrannical kings. King James went so far as to make ownership of the Geneva Bible a felony. He then proceeded to make his own version of the Bible, but without the marginal notes that had so disturbed him. Consequently, during King James’s reign, and into the reign of Charles I, the Geneva Bible was gradually replaced by the King James Bible.
Blurb from Wikipedia. I would encourage you to provide a better summary since you seem to understand the context of this book beyond the title.
King James wrote a dissertation titled Daemonologie that was first sold in 1597, several years prior to the first publication of the King James Authorized Version of the Bible. Within three short books James wrote a philosophical dissertation in the form of a Socratic dialogue for the purpose of making arguments and comparisons between magic, sorcery and witchcraft, but wrote also his classification of demons.
In writing the book, King James was heavily influenced by his personal involvement in the North Berwick witch trials from 1590. Following the execution of an alleged sorcerer in the year 1591, the news of the trials was narrated in a news pamphlet titled Newes from Scotland and was included as the final chapter of the text. The book endorses the practice of witch hunting in a Christian society. James begins the book:
Keep in mind that King James was of the Stuart clan, and his grandfather had Lady Janet Douglas burnt at the stake because he accused her of witchcraft. It was a great way to get rid of your rivals!
Remember that these catholics at one point attempted to ban the throwing of dice because they claimed it was summoning evil spirits....
Look at the history of King James, he was far from perfect. The only reason he had the Bible translated into English was to separate the people from Roman Catholicism!
Demonology is the study of demons by Christian scholars. We have biblical scholars today that study this topic.
King James commissioned the best scholars of thd day to translate the Masoretic Hebrew Old Testament and Koine Greek New Testament into English.
One of the strongest motives was getting rid of the footnotes found in the Geneva Bible, no doubt.
So is it fair to say that the translation itself is solid but the removal of the footnotes is a potential loss?
Yes.
I've read and researched the topic of Bible translations ad nauseum for well over a decade, and still haven't landed on a definitive answer. So, I'll humbly ask you, PoP -- what is your preferred translation, and why?
FWIW...I have been using NJKV for a couple of years, but just recently returned to the NASB translation. I occasionally cross check passages from both of those against the original KJV.
I used NIV when I was in my 20s, but I feel upon closer inspection (and again, held up against other, more "proven" translations) that context is sometimes lost OR worse, changed or glossed over.
I don't have a preferred translation, per se, but if you check my post history, I usually quote from the King James Version. I also read the Geneva, Young's Literal Translation, and, depending on verse, I will check the NIV.
With that being said, there are many translations, but there are only 2 Bibles.
For the Old Testament, your choices are the three "oldest" manuscripts which survived in the Vatican library (Codex Vaticanus), in a trash can in a Roman Catholic convent on Mt. Sinai discovered by a 'Protestant' Tischendorf who had an audience with the Pope before going to the Holy Land and visiting the convent (Codex Sinaiticus), and Codex Alexandrinus OR
the Hebrew Masoretic text.
The Masoretic text is referred to as the "Hebrew Bible" in this AP article -
Scanning software deciphers ancient biblical scroll
https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-jerusalem-science-technology-60785bb2031a478cb71ce9278782c320
As far as the New Testament, your choices are a Classical Greek or Koine Greek version.
The Classical Greek was only used by scholars and their students. Koine Greek was what the commoners in the Roman Empire spoke.
Which version was more likely to be used by the Apostles, do you think?
I choose the Koine Greek NT and Hebrew Masoretic OT myself.
The King James sounds more powerful and poetic to me than other versions.
Example -
Ephesians 6:10-19
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
Compare that to the NIV version, which is what Q used for drop 4429 -
u/#q4429
Tell more about the footnotes.
At the time of the signing of the Constitution the predominant language spoken in America was Scottish. When the Pilgrims came to what would become America, the only Bible used at that time was the Geneva Bible.
For the first time in over 390 years, the complete 1599 edition of the Geneva Bible is again available! The Geneva Bible is the Bible with marginal notes authored by John Calvin, John Knox, Miles Coverdale, and many other leaders of the Reformation. The Geneva Bible was the predominant English translation during the period in which the English and Scottish Reformations gained great impetus. Iain Murray, in his classic work on revival and the interpretation of prophecy, The Puritan Hope, notes, "... the two groups in England and Scotland developed along parallel lines, like two streams originating at one fountain. The fountain was not so much Geneva, as the Bible which the exiles newly translated and issued with many marginal notes... it was read in every Presbyterian and Puritan home in both realms"
The Cambridge Geneva Bible of 1591 was the edition carried by the Pilgrims when they fled to America. As such, it directly provided much of the genius and inspiration which carried those courageous and faithful souls through their trials, and provided the spiritual, intellectual and legal basis for establishment and flourishing of the colonies. Thus, it became the foundation for establishment of the American Nation. This heritage makes it a Celestial Article indeed! And a treasured possession for any free man!
The 1560 Geneva Bible was the first to have Bible chapters divided into numbered verses. The translation is the work of religious leaders exiled from England after the death of King Edward VI in 1553. Almost every chapter has marginal notes to create greater understanding of scripture. The marginal notes often reflected Calvinistic and Protestant reformation influences, not yet accepted by the Church of England. King James I in the late 16th century pronounced the Geneva Bible marginal notes as being: "partial, untrue, seditious, and savouring of dangerous and traitorous conceits." In every copy of each edition the word "breeches" rather than "aprons" was used in Genesis 3:7, which accounts for why the Geneva Bible is sometime called the "Breeches" Bible. The Church of England never authorized or sanctioned the Geneva Bible. However, it was frequently used, without authority, both to read the scripture lessons, and to preach from. It was pre-eminent as a household Bible, and continued so until the middle of the 17th century. The convenient size, cheap price, chapters divided into numbered verses and extensive marginal notes were the cause of it's popularity
The Geneva Bible is a critical, yet almost completely forgotten part of the Protestant Reformation. Driven out of England by the persecutions of Bloody Mary, several future leaders of the Reformation came to Geneva to create a pure and accurate translation of the Holy Writ. Concerned about the influence that the Catholic Church had on the existing translations of the Bible from the Latin, these men turned to the original Hebrew and Greek texts to produce the Geneva Bible. This made the Geneva Bible the first complete Bible to be translated into English from the original Hebrew and Greek texts.
https://www.reformedreader.org/gbn/en.htm
Thanks Fren!
Found this article explaining the Geneva Bible and King James' role in changing it. https://www.reformedreader.org/gbn/en.htm
Blurb from Wikipedia. I would encourage you to provide a better summary since you seem to understand the context of this book beyond the title.
Keep in mind that King James was of the Stuart clan, and his grandfather had Lady Janet Douglas burnt at the stake because he accused her of witchcraft. It was a great way to get rid of your rivals!
Remember that these catholics at one point attempted to ban the throwing of dice because they claimed it was summoning evil spirits....
If anyone wants a copy of the Geneva Bible, it’s in the archive.
https://archive.org/details/The1599GenevaBible/page/n9/mode/1up
Look at the history of King James, he was far from perfect. The only reason he had the Bible translated into English was to separate the people from Roman Catholicism!
Yep.
Devil spirits