So you think that a hypervelocity kinetic energy weapon consisting of 25' long tungsten steel beams (basically telephone poles) weighing around 4 tons each were dropped from space to take out the facility? Just getting that much cargo weight into low-earth orbit borders on impossible even for a rocket as macho as Falcon Heavy-9. Not to mention loading several into a space borne deployment magazine. I'll stick with DEWs which don't need to be in orbit, they can more easily be deployed by plane (SKY) or ship.
Yes. The Delta IV Heavy can launch up to 28,000kg. Falcon Heavy can launch more, but is too new for this program. The theoretical weight of these tungsten rods varies in descriptions of the concept, but a commonly cited figure is around 20 feet in length and about 1 foot in diameter, weighing approximately 9,000 to 12,000 kilograms (20,000 to 26,000 pounds). Obviously such a system could merely be the rod itself, with an RCS guidance package on the end. The theories I've seen states that these rods could be launched individually or in pairs and would orbit (and de-orbit on command) independently.
I'll stick with DEWs which don't need to be in orbit, they can more easily be deployed by plane (SKY) or ship.
You are going by the logical phallacy called "incredulity," where you are choosing the theories that feel "right" to you, rather than the theories that are within our current technological capabilities. For instance, the "airplane laser DEW" program was a total failure. The Boeing 747 is now sitting abandoned and almost totally dismantled in the "Boneyard," at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson, Arizona.
Reading comprehension isn't your best asset I see. You reply to me quoting things I never said. But to that point, tell Space Force their X37-B which launched on Sep. 7, 2017 and landed on Oct. 27, 2019, then launched again May 17, 2020 and landed Nov. 12, 2022. Sounds like a "skyship" to me. LOL!
If you would read what I wrote you would know that I said I don't know if they are space borne or not. They wouldn't need to be. Also I never said they were "green lasers". What you are calling a failure (weak) is still in use. But for that matter, we don't know what they have evolved to now. But we know they will show us this much as of 2014. When I was in we had a saying, whatever Uncle Sam lets us play with you can bet your ass he has shit 50 years ahead of it.
It's a given that you and I have no real idea of what they have. Certainly a bunch of plane "geeks" don't know. I'd wager that very few of the plane geeks know we have taken down an orbiting satellite with an F-15. Yet we shot down one of our own satellites using an F-15 during the Cold War just to show the USSR that we could take theirs down. There's an old adage attributed to Tao Te Ching that goes; "Those that know do not talk, those that talk do not know."
Now maybe some booger eaters in intel with Q clearance that have SAP privileges know. But what they know best is how to keep their mouth shut. So since there is no way we can know we should discuss these things here, especially since it can be inferred in the Q drops. Just because you don't see it like other do doesn't make it wrong and you right. That's why we discuss these things here, to hash out the possible intentions of the drops. For you to come along and put your moderator pants on and quell discussion just because you don't think it right...well lets just say I'm glad you aren't king.
I've been a moderator and also an administrator of some very large shooting and hunting sites. One of which sent me (east coast) to Las Vegas to represent them at the 1998 SHOT Show. As a moderator you should encourage discussion and debate and never interfere except in cases of trolling, illegality, hostility or when site rules are obviously being violated. As an administrator you should never get involved, all tasks pertaining to the general membership should be delegated to a moderator.
Well, I'm not really involved, since the DEW sticky was made by u/Qanaut without my knowledge. But you raise some excellent points.
You reply to me quoting things I never said
I didn't ascribe them to you, read the room—read this entire thread. This is what's being said.
BTW, X-37B went back up two weeks ago! Such an interesting mission. I wonder what it could be...
Also I never said they were "green lasers".
OK, wait, reading comprehension isn't your best asset, either. :) That is the post going around. That's the entire viral conversation going on all over X right now. That video showing green lasers.
whatever Uncle Sam lets us play with you can bet your ass he has shit 50 years ahead of it.
Fine, but we refuse to use this as an "invisible bridge" in our theories. I'm not allowing low-info retardery to go:
ERMAGERD GREEN LASERSES
Biden said "roof colour!"
????
PROOFS WE HAVE TEH SPACE WEAPONSES!
That's functionally retarded. Not allowing it. Take it to c/conspiracies.
As a moderator you should encourage discussion and debate and never interfere except in cases of trolling, illegality, hostility or when site rules are obviously being violated
I can agree with this. However, moderators have two jobs that are counter-opposed to one another. Yes, absolutely, we are responsible for the long-term health of the discussion on this board. That is an excellent point. But we are also fucked if we allow unwanted species to multiply freely. Since you were into hunting, you of course know that you put down only the bait that attracts your target. Therefore, here on GAW, we are targeting high-effort, high-info posters who post real, provable, and research-backed comments and posts. But we are ALSO charged with sniping the low-effort, low-info faggots. The best way to encourage more of those faggots settling comfortably into your community is to not let them get comfortable. DO NOT FEED. Skim this thread. Other than the mods, which 'species' would you say this DEW content attracts? Other than my posts, what is the most high-effort, high-info post in here?
Dumb, poorly-researched topics attract the wrong crowd. The mods will thin this herd until they no longer infest our research.
Go ahead. Pick the "DEW tards" in this thread and view their post histories.
These Q allusions are not even references. They could mean almost anything. Nothing but confirmation bias to link them to space weapons.
The mountainside collapsed. Due to geologic weakening from repeated underground nuclear detonations, the last one having been 10x greater in yield than anything tested before. I mean, who could'a thunk it?
Still no evidence for "Rods from God." It is a system concept that doesn't make sense, which is why it was only a slide in a briefing package.
The system makes tons of sense. It is within our launch capabilities and tech capabilities, unlike the DEWs, which are proving pretty hard.
The US Navy killed its rail gun. Meahwile, the "airplane laser DEW" program was a total failure. The Boeing 747 is now sitting abandoned and almost totally dismantled in the "Boneyard," at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson, Arizona. It'll never fly again.
But no, we need magical "space lasers" because Biden "admitted it," LOL. I can't even with this place sometimes.
The Delta IV Heavy can launch up to 28,000kg. Falcon Heavy can launch more, but is too new for this program. The theoretical weight of these tungsten rods varies in descriptions of the concept, but a commonly cited figure is around 20 feet in length and about 1 foot in diameter, weighing approximately 9,000 to 12,000 kilograms (20,000 to 26,000 pounds). Obviously such a system could merely be the rod itself, with an RCS guidance package on the end. The theories I've seen states that these rods could be launched individually or in pairs and would orbit (and de-orbit on command) independently.
My apologies. I can't seem to track back to your reference, but I think you are alluding to "Rods from God." I don't know what technology you think it is "within." They are supposed to be huge and heavy. As orbital junk they would be the equivalent of a navigation hazard. As a weapon system, they would have the highest probability of not being in the correct place at the desired time (classic problem of on-call orbital weapons). As a re-entry system, they would need very reliable propulsion that is space-storable over long time intervals. (Or you de-orbit them on a regular basis to flush out the likely failures.) They don't have a sensor that can see through a hypersonic shock wave. I'm not even certain that a long pole would remain aerodynamically stable on re-entry.
The railgun concept had inherent problems. One was the "reverse rocket" effect, where the projectile would gain weight from scuffing the rails at high speed, leading to an ultimate speed limit. Another was the fact that the launch acceleration was in the thousands of g's, and once out the muzzle, the aerodynamic deceleration was hundreds of g's. Bad environment. The muzzle blast must have been tremendous. The barrel wore out. Just more of a headache than a solution.
The Airborne Laser was a complete success, shooting down a boosting ballistic missile on 11 February 2010. (I was on the program.) Obama scrapped it shortly afterward, with the same wisdom he displayed in terminating F-22 production. No matter. The Air Force is fickle when it comes to laser technology, always lusting for the next one.
Back to Rods, you don't launch things into orbit on demand. It has to be scheduled and is a long process. We have no command and control system for them, or battle management system. We have no idea what the delivery accuracy would be, or what the delivery effects would be. (Talk of the tungsten vaporizing is pretty unsubstantiated. The practical applications we know about, in anti-tank shells, is that they simply penetrate like hell.) What do you shoot them at? They would be extravagant overkill against a tank (which could move maybe 10 feet to get out of the way). We have other weapons already. I calculate back in the 90s that a reasonable-sized re-entry vehicle could be used to sink a naval cruiser...if we could guide it. Moving targets are tough.
So you're positing a space-based system able to collapse a MOUNTAIN and kill 200 scientists?? That's seriously what you're going with...?
I think that incident by the way was indeed the "Rods from God" system, tho.
So you think that a hypervelocity kinetic energy weapon consisting of 25' long tungsten steel beams (basically telephone poles) weighing around 4 tons each were dropped from space to take out the facility? Just getting that much cargo weight into low-earth orbit borders on impossible even for a rocket as macho as Falcon Heavy-9. Not to mention loading several into a space borne deployment magazine. I'll stick with DEWs which don't need to be in orbit, they can more easily be deployed by plane (SKY) or ship.
Yes. The Delta IV Heavy can launch up to 28,000kg. Falcon Heavy can launch more, but is too new for this program. The theoretical weight of these tungsten rods varies in descriptions of the concept, but a commonly cited figure is around 20 feet in length and about 1 foot in diameter, weighing approximately 9,000 to 12,000 kilograms (20,000 to 26,000 pounds). Obviously such a system could merely be the rod itself, with an RCS guidance package on the end. The theories I've seen states that these rods could be launched individually or in pairs and would orbit (and de-orbit on command) independently.
You are going by the logical phallacy called "incredulity," where you are choosing the theories that feel "right" to you, rather than the theories that are within our current technological capabilities. For instance, the "airplane laser DEW" program was a total failure. The Boeing 747 is now sitting abandoned and almost totally dismantled in the "Boneyard," at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson, Arizona.
But no, we need magical "skyships," LOL.
Reading comprehension isn't your best asset I see. You reply to me quoting things I never said. But to that point, tell Space Force their X37-B which launched on Sep. 7, 2017 and landed on Oct. 27, 2019, then launched again May 17, 2020 and landed Nov. 12, 2022. Sounds like a "skyship" to me. LOL!
If you would read what I wrote you would know that I said I don't know if they are space borne or not. They wouldn't need to be. Also I never said they were "green lasers". What you are calling a failure (weak) is still in use. But for that matter, we don't know what they have evolved to now. But we know they will show us this much as of 2014. When I was in we had a saying, whatever Uncle Sam lets us play with you can bet your ass he has shit 50 years ahead of it.
It's a given that you and I have no real idea of what they have. Certainly a bunch of plane "geeks" don't know. I'd wager that very few of the plane geeks know we have taken down an orbiting satellite with an F-15. Yet we shot down one of our own satellites using an F-15 during the Cold War just to show the USSR that we could take theirs down. There's an old adage attributed to Tao Te Ching that goes; "Those that know do not talk, those that talk do not know."
Now maybe some booger eaters in intel with Q clearance that have SAP privileges know. But what they know best is how to keep their mouth shut. So since there is no way we can know we should discuss these things here, especially since it can be inferred in the Q drops. Just because you don't see it like other do doesn't make it wrong and you right. That's why we discuss these things here, to hash out the possible intentions of the drops. For you to come along and put your moderator pants on and quell discussion just because you don't think it right...well lets just say I'm glad you aren't king.
I've been a moderator and also an administrator of some very large shooting and hunting sites. One of which sent me (east coast) to Las Vegas to represent them at the 1998 SHOT Show. As a moderator you should encourage discussion and debate and never interfere except in cases of trolling, illegality, hostility or when site rules are obviously being violated. As an administrator you should never get involved, all tasks pertaining to the general membership should be delegated to a moderator.
Well, I'm not really involved, since the DEW sticky was made by u/Qanaut without my knowledge. But you raise some excellent points.
I didn't ascribe them to you, read the room—read this entire thread. This is what's being said.
BTW, X-37B went back up two weeks ago! Such an interesting mission. I wonder what it could be...
OK, wait, reading comprehension isn't your best asset, either. :) That is the post going around. That's the entire viral conversation going on all over X right now. That video showing green lasers.
Fine, but we refuse to use this as an "invisible bridge" in our theories. I'm not allowing low-info retardery to go:
ERMAGERD GREEN LASERSES
Biden said "roof colour!"
????
PROOFS WE HAVE TEH SPACE WEAPONSES!
That's functionally retarded. Not allowing it. Take it to c/conspiracies.
I can agree with this. However, moderators have two jobs that are counter-opposed to one another. Yes, absolutely, we are responsible for the long-term health of the discussion on this board. That is an excellent point. But we are also fucked if we allow unwanted species to multiply freely. Since you were into hunting, you of course know that you put down only the bait that attracts your target. Therefore, here on GAW, we are targeting high-effort, high-info posters who post real, provable, and research-backed comments and posts. But we are ALSO charged with sniping the low-effort, low-info faggots. The best way to encourage more of those faggots settling comfortably into your community is to not let them get comfortable. DO NOT FEED. Skim this thread. Other than the mods, which 'species' would you say this DEW content attracts? Other than my posts, what is the most high-effort, high-info post in here?
Dumb, poorly-researched topics attract the wrong crowd. The mods will thin this herd until they no longer infest our research.
Go ahead. Pick the "DEW tards" in this thread and view their post histories.
Congrats, you are now a mod :)
Well said fren.
These Q allusions are not even references. They could mean almost anything. Nothing but confirmation bias to link them to space weapons.
The mountainside collapsed. Due to geologic weakening from repeated underground nuclear detonations, the last one having been 10x greater in yield than anything tested before. I mean, who could'a thunk it?
Still no evidence for "Rods from God." It is a system concept that doesn't make sense, which is why it was only a slide in a briefing package.
The system makes tons of sense. It is within our launch capabilities and tech capabilities, unlike the DEWs, which are proving pretty hard.
The US Navy killed its rail gun. Meahwile, the "airplane laser DEW" program was a total failure. The Boeing 747 is now sitting abandoned and almost totally dismantled in the "Boneyard," at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson, Arizona. It'll never fly again.
But no, we need magical "space lasers" because Biden "admitted it," LOL. I can't even with this place sometimes.
The Delta IV Heavy can launch up to 28,000kg. Falcon Heavy can launch more, but is too new for this program. The theoretical weight of these tungsten rods varies in descriptions of the concept, but a commonly cited figure is around 20 feet in length and about 1 foot in diameter, weighing approximately 9,000 to 12,000 kilograms (20,000 to 26,000 pounds). Obviously such a system could merely be the rod itself, with an RCS guidance package on the end. The theories I've seen states that these rods could be launched individually or in pairs and would orbit (and de-orbit on command) independently.
My apologies. I can't seem to track back to your reference, but I think you are alluding to "Rods from God." I don't know what technology you think it is "within." They are supposed to be huge and heavy. As orbital junk they would be the equivalent of a navigation hazard. As a weapon system, they would have the highest probability of not being in the correct place at the desired time (classic problem of on-call orbital weapons). As a re-entry system, they would need very reliable propulsion that is space-storable over long time intervals. (Or you de-orbit them on a regular basis to flush out the likely failures.) They don't have a sensor that can see through a hypersonic shock wave. I'm not even certain that a long pole would remain aerodynamically stable on re-entry.
The railgun concept had inherent problems. One was the "reverse rocket" effect, where the projectile would gain weight from scuffing the rails at high speed, leading to an ultimate speed limit. Another was the fact that the launch acceleration was in the thousands of g's, and once out the muzzle, the aerodynamic deceleration was hundreds of g's. Bad environment. The muzzle blast must have been tremendous. The barrel wore out. Just more of a headache than a solution.
The Airborne Laser was a complete success, shooting down a boosting ballistic missile on 11 February 2010. (I was on the program.) Obama scrapped it shortly afterward, with the same wisdom he displayed in terminating F-22 production. No matter. The Air Force is fickle when it comes to laser technology, always lusting for the next one.
Back to Rods, you don't launch things into orbit on demand. It has to be scheduled and is a long process. We have no command and control system for them, or battle management system. We have no idea what the delivery accuracy would be, or what the delivery effects would be. (Talk of the tungsten vaporizing is pretty unsubstantiated. The practical applications we know about, in anti-tank shells, is that they simply penetrate like hell.) What do you shoot them at? They would be extravagant overkill against a tank (which could move maybe 10 feet to get out of the way). We have other weapons already. I calculate back in the 90s that a reasonable-sized re-entry vehicle could be used to sink a naval cruiser...if we could guide it. Moving targets are tough.
What? You think Rods from God are real? I find that strangely reassuring.
I think there is evidence for them having been used twice