Pre-mil, amil, post-mil, pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, none of it matters for salvation. None of it should change your faith or how you praise Jesus.
Never said it did. But it does matter for other reasons. There's a difference between praising Jesus that he will rule on earth one day and praising Jesus because he's ruling right now.
Not to..... and judge each other
Christians are commanded to judge each other by God's standards. In fact you just judged me for judging didn't you? So are you a hypocrite or do you maybe have an inconsistent view of what scripture commands?
Live in the Spirit and you will know what “you” need to know.
Hardly. You're not commanded to live by the spirit alone. Your commanded to study and meditate on God's word as well.
Eschatology matters. It affects how you fight, build, and interact with the world.
As I said before, no one polishes brass on a sinking ship. If you think you're about to be yeeted into heaven are you going to fight, build, and take Dominion and start projects that your great-grandchildren will have to finish? Doubtful.
My church is Post Mill. We run EndAbortionNow.com and wrote the amicus brief that overturned Roe v Wade. We have bills of full abolition criminalization pending all over the nation. We have shut down multiple abortion clinics and saved countless babies and equipped churches all over the world to fight abortion In a biblical manner. We know this fight is gods. We know all we have to do is be faithful and step out in faith and do the work and God will give us the victory. Whereas other churches simply see abortion as a sign of the end times and refuse to do anything about it. Eschatology matters.
I frequently see churches with pessimistic eschatological views and positions being wildly ineffective to the world and the culture and their communities at large. I don't think this is an accident. If I was the enemy I would see this as a total victory.
Typical combative religious answer. You flaunt your knowledge and works as if you are superior. Pharisee much? Studying the word is a given, I never said live in the Spirit ignorantly. Your church isn’t the only defender of life. Please continue to qualify your earned authority on unfulfilled prophecy. Give it a rest.There are really strong arguments on more than one line of thought. None conclusive in my opinion. Yes we should stand in strong opposition to evil and bring more hearts to Jesus even more so. Let’s not bicker about what might come in the future. If your heart is right with God, come what may, you will be prepared to go about the Father’s work in whatever scenario you find yourself in.
Not against action but against action that is possibly motivated by a false belief and claiming it is God’s will. See my second response to u/Datasinc for clarification.
Combative? No. Conflicting beliefs? Yes. That's called a discussion. Religious? Yes. Christianity IS a religion.... based upon God's Word which is the standard. This is super simple stuff.
You flaunt your knowledge and works as if you are superior.
I was sharing knowledge.... IN A DISCUSSION which is EXACTLY what you are doing too. As for works.... I was demonstrating what the differing views of end times lead to. I could easily give you many other examples from other post-mill churches such as the wonderful work of Christ Church in Moscow Idaho. IDC who does the work and is faithful to God, I want children saved from death. I want churches fighting the culture and being hated for it. I want us to be salt and light. Full stop.
Pharisee much?
LOL you don't even understand what that means. If you are gonna use that in the future I suggest you familiarize yourself with it. I'll help you out.... It describes someone who is hypocritical or overly focused on religious rituals without true understanding or sincerity. Quit throwing around popular evangelical terms you don't understand.
No one was bickering. despite that, you tried to make some pretty stupid and baseless personal attacks against me. You just had your feathers ruffled because i swept the legs out from under some of your other arguments and took it personally. I was addressing your position, not you. You did not respond in kind so here we are. Pearls to swine.
I would recommend you walk away from this one. You don't seem to have the temperament for the exchange of ideas in a productive manor and at a certain point I may choose to start actually punching back which believe me, I haven't even remotely done. I thought we were having a brotherly convo.
I am familiar with Doug Wilson and Christ Church. I am especially thankful for his contributions to education. He is who introduced me to classical Christian education and Dorothy Sayers. I have sought out that type of education for my children and am very thankful. Just one example among other works from him and his church.
My pastor and church are quite active in politics and the national evangelical movement as well. He has been invited to multiple Whitehouse meetings under the Trump administration. He is well known but my post is not about him. Nor is it about his, or his church’s works. His works do illuminate the chasm between you and I. You see he teaches pre-trib/pre-mil. I say this because your comments come off as a pride badge for your post-mil church. You allude to pm churches doing work while others are just sitting around and dooming. That’s just not the case.
“There's a difference between praising Jesus that he will rule on earth one day and praising Jesus because he's ruling right now.”
“ Whereas other churches simply see abortion as a sign of the end times and refuse to do anything about it. Eschatology matters.”
These comments reveal the nature of your opinion that only post-mil believers are active soldiers for Christ or the only Christian’s praising Him correctly.
Yes our pre-Trib/pre-mil church is heavily active in the fight against abortion as well. I find it a bit ridiculous to have to compare the two churches and their works. Works cannot save anyone. It is why Jesus fulfilled the law so that no one can boast. He takes all the credit for salvation. Our faith in Him saves us. Period! So why does your eschatological interpretations, which is what you’re arguing for, matter so much to use labels of right and wrong? No one knows for certain. All camps are arguing about their interpretation of scripture. One says this is literal and that is symbology while the other says the opposite or even the same on some points. It is not hard to use grammar, context, vocabulary, and previous use to determine what scriptures mean. Yet, here we are. Some things are not so clear without first hand anccounts or knowledge and aside from the accounts of the apostles and the knowledge directly revealed to Paul it does not exist. So, we are left with interpretations. I think Paul is pretty clear about things. One could argue he has more knowledge than the disciples as mysteries were revealed to him alone. I digress.
Regardless of interpretation we should all be busy about our Father’s work. This is the perspective I was and still am coming from. Works has no place in an eschatological discussion. Perhaps an absolute like “no place” is too extreme. Let’s say very low relevance. 1. Works are irrelevant in that we should all be doing our own specialized work as appointed from the Father no matter what our eschatological interpretations are. It’s not like only one group works and the other is sitting on their hands waiting. Or that one group’s work is more important other’s. At least it shouldn’t be. 2. Works is merely the fruit of faith. If your works are driven by anything other than your love for Christ and your submission to His will you are doing most likely doing them in vain. In the case of doing work that supports “your” interpretation of prophecy as being the why you work it falls flat.
I think we agree on more than you think but I just see some of your comments and arguments as petty in the grand scheme of things.
Sorry for the attacks earlier. I took some of your comments out of context. Numbers 6:24-26
Never said it did. But it does matter for other reasons. There's a difference between praising Jesus that he will rule on earth one day and praising Jesus because he's ruling right now.
Christians are commanded to judge each other by God's standards. In fact you just judged me for judging didn't you? So are you a hypocrite or do you maybe have an inconsistent view of what scripture commands?
Hardly. You're not commanded to live by the spirit alone. Your commanded to study and meditate on God's word as well.
Eschatology matters. It affects how you fight, build, and interact with the world.
As I said before, no one polishes brass on a sinking ship. If you think you're about to be yeeted into heaven are you going to fight, build, and take Dominion and start projects that your great-grandchildren will have to finish? Doubtful.
My church is Post Mill. We run EndAbortionNow.com and wrote the amicus brief that overturned Roe v Wade. We have bills of full abolition criminalization pending all over the nation. We have shut down multiple abortion clinics and saved countless babies and equipped churches all over the world to fight abortion In a biblical manner. We know this fight is gods. We know all we have to do is be faithful and step out in faith and do the work and God will give us the victory. Whereas other churches simply see abortion as a sign of the end times and refuse to do anything about it. Eschatology matters.
I frequently see churches with pessimistic eschatological views and positions being wildly ineffective to the world and the culture and their communities at large. I don't think this is an accident. If I was the enemy I would see this as a total victory.
Typical combative religious answer. You flaunt your knowledge and works as if you are superior. Pharisee much? Studying the word is a given, I never said live in the Spirit ignorantly. Your church isn’t the only defender of life. Please continue to qualify your earned authority on unfulfilled prophecy. Give it a rest.There are really strong arguments on more than one line of thought. None conclusive in my opinion. Yes we should stand in strong opposition to evil and bring more hearts to Jesus even more so. Let’s not bicker about what might come in the future. If your heart is right with God, come what may, you will be prepared to go about the Father’s work in whatever scenario you find yourself in.
Not against action but against action that is possibly motivated by a false belief and claiming it is God’s will. See my second response to u/Datasinc for clarification.
Yes clarifications were much better. I decided to butt out, but not quick enough!
Combative? No. Conflicting beliefs? Yes. That's called a discussion. Religious? Yes. Christianity IS a religion.... based upon God's Word which is the standard. This is super simple stuff.
I was sharing knowledge.... IN A DISCUSSION which is EXACTLY what you are doing too. As for works.... I was demonstrating what the differing views of end times lead to. I could easily give you many other examples from other post-mill churches such as the wonderful work of Christ Church in Moscow Idaho. IDC who does the work and is faithful to God, I want children saved from death. I want churches fighting the culture and being hated for it. I want us to be salt and light. Full stop.
LOL you don't even understand what that means. If you are gonna use that in the future I suggest you familiarize yourself with it. I'll help you out.... It describes someone who is hypocritical or overly focused on religious rituals without true understanding or sincerity. Quit throwing around popular evangelical terms you don't understand.
No one was bickering. despite that, you tried to make some pretty stupid and baseless personal attacks against me. You just had your feathers ruffled because i swept the legs out from under some of your other arguments and took it personally. I was addressing your position, not you. You did not respond in kind so here we are. Pearls to swine.
I would recommend you walk away from this one. You don't seem to have the temperament for the exchange of ideas in a productive manor and at a certain point I may choose to start actually punching back which believe me, I haven't even remotely done. I thought we were having a brotherly convo.
Have a blessed day.
I am familiar with Doug Wilson and Christ Church. I am especially thankful for his contributions to education. He is who introduced me to classical Christian education and Dorothy Sayers. I have sought out that type of education for my children and am very thankful. Just one example among other works from him and his church.
My pastor and church are quite active in politics and the national evangelical movement as well. He has been invited to multiple Whitehouse meetings under the Trump administration. He is well known but my post is not about him. Nor is it about his, or his church’s works. His works do illuminate the chasm between you and I. You see he teaches pre-trib/pre-mil. I say this because your comments come off as a pride badge for your post-mil church. You allude to pm churches doing work while others are just sitting around and dooming. That’s just not the case.
“There's a difference between praising Jesus that he will rule on earth one day and praising Jesus because he's ruling right now.”
“ Whereas other churches simply see abortion as a sign of the end times and refuse to do anything about it. Eschatology matters.”
These comments reveal the nature of your opinion that only post-mil believers are active soldiers for Christ or the only Christian’s praising Him correctly.
Yes our pre-Trib/pre-mil church is heavily active in the fight against abortion as well. I find it a bit ridiculous to have to compare the two churches and their works. Works cannot save anyone. It is why Jesus fulfilled the law so that no one can boast. He takes all the credit for salvation. Our faith in Him saves us. Period! So why does your eschatological interpretations, which is what you’re arguing for, matter so much to use labels of right and wrong? No one knows for certain. All camps are arguing about their interpretation of scripture. One says this is literal and that is symbology while the other says the opposite or even the same on some points. It is not hard to use grammar, context, vocabulary, and previous use to determine what scriptures mean. Yet, here we are. Some things are not so clear without first hand anccounts or knowledge and aside from the accounts of the apostles and the knowledge directly revealed to Paul it does not exist. So, we are left with interpretations. I think Paul is pretty clear about things. One could argue he has more knowledge than the disciples as mysteries were revealed to him alone. I digress.
Regardless of interpretation we should all be busy about our Father’s work. This is the perspective I was and still am coming from. Works has no place in an eschatological discussion. Perhaps an absolute like “no place” is too extreme. Let’s say very low relevance. 1. Works are irrelevant in that we should all be doing our own specialized work as appointed from the Father no matter what our eschatological interpretations are. It’s not like only one group works and the other is sitting on their hands waiting. Or that one group’s work is more important other’s. At least it shouldn’t be. 2. Works is merely the fruit of faith. If your works are driven by anything other than your love for Christ and your submission to His will you are doing most likely doing them in vain. In the case of doing work that supports “your” interpretation of prophecy as being the why you work it falls flat.
I think we agree on more than you think but I just see some of your comments and arguments as petty in the grand scheme of things.
Sorry for the attacks earlier. I took some of your comments out of context. Numbers 6:24-26