I do not mean to offend anyone and I'm really wanting to see if others here are in a similar headspace regarding religion... atheism being one - that's it.
I have been here for quite a while - both this amazing site as well as the headspace I want to describe. I firmly believe (due to facts and not faith) Q was most likely a military operation or part of it and still is and the posts are used by those in the know for communications (continued proofs sans-new-drops). I completely respect anyone's choice to believe in a god(s) but find the same spiritual enlightenment from the natural world without this. I have been through Christian churches, and I was quite involved in a Christadelphian Ecclesia in my early 20's for a couple years - it resonated with me because of not believing in the trinity and just that Jesus was a man - a very good man, indeed to Christadelphians as they believe he was the son of god. I don't find myself conflicted in the slightest regarding Q and truly enjoy the site and everything in it. I have never and would never discuss this in anyone else's post regarding anything religious and have never mentioned this once here before now.
If anyone would like to see what I am even talking about or do not actually know what atheism is I would recommend starting with a book... The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. I'm not saying I agree with all of Dawkins, but its a good place to start if interested.
I can go on about most of the founding fathers and their adherence to separation of church and state and the changing views of Thomas Jefferson really make think he was either close to being atheist or just was in hiding... sure, its ridiculed today but back then it was even questioned if an atheist could be called a citizen. Everyone knows about Einstein, Carl Segan, Stephen Hawkins and a countless list of other intellectuals that "believe there are believers" but do not themselves, like myself, believe in a personal god. There is a direct quote from Einstein on the matter: "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."
I spent years going to bible study through late teens and early 20's, I then read the bible like a book... and then I read it like a book after being introduced to the Christadelphian church - with the added benefit of translating many words directly from Hebrew and Greek. It reads very different when you replace a supernatural Satan with what the original word translates to... "adversary" in EVERY INSTANCE in the old testament. But this still included too much dogma for me to get past I think and it took years to even consider atheism.
I used to say I had the "Rudy" answer - in the movie Rudy that is... Rev. John Cavanaugh gave the statement "There is a god, and he isn't me" - but that was just a cop-out for me to not have to dive into the matter.
I didn't actually come to the conclusion of actual Atheism until the last few years even. I find no conflict in enjoying religious artworks, idols, and sayings of any kind. I enjoy both "In God We Trust" on our currency just as I enjoy the Buddha statuette in my office. However I am also in awe often of just what can be destroyed in the name of gods.
Is anyone else in this same place?
We can reason all we want in our own simple minds. The complexity of Gods creation and the fleeting life that he created for us with free will, gives us the choice of faith in Him or rejection due to our own foolish thoughts and actions.
I choose the all knowing Father in heaven! Choose wisely my friends.
If you want to find God for real... You need to become still.
You will not find God anywhere, but within yourself - in SILENCE.
You will not find God through thinking, through reading, through believing, through any other means, than becoming silent, with no thought, and going within yourself.
This has been pointed to countless times, but few will ever have the patience, discipline and personal courage to actually do it.
The ONLY place, completely untainted, unadulterated, unmolested, is within you. Everything else in the world has been tainted. ONLY the SILENCE within you is pure - You must crucify your thoughts so that the Christ can be born within you.
Verily I say to you fren, if you're standing on the last foothold before falling into the lava - existential desperation - Learn to become quiet. Then you will truly receive God's light directly - no middle man, no religion, no beliefs required.
If you do this, and it may only be for 10 seconds, you WILL see through the eyes of Christ and have love and compassion for ALL - ALL problems, hate, bullshit is completely BURNED UP and all the drama of life becomes completely irrelevant, petty and small because you are standing in the light of God.
Learn to be still. Focus your consciousness in your 3rd eye/pineal and for the first time in your life discover your own conscious presence and God directly. This is the difference between believing and knowing.
Thank you - appreciate the response
You're welcome.
FYI - I was "standing on the last square" about 10 years ago. Just completely fed up with the bullshit of this world - every last bit of it.
And having grown up Roman Catholic and in turn, spiritually starving, I set out to leave no stone unturned in the quest for the ultimate truth.
I walked through bad intellectual neighborhoods, countless religious ideologies and finally realized that everything was one big endless cul-de-sac of mental masturbation, designed to keep you from discovering who you really are.
There are plenty of references hidden in the Bible for instance, that aren't readily apparent, regarding the ultimate truth. Most get lost by taking what is written literally... and that usually has the opposite effect of creating division than unity.
Only when i considered the scenario of turning around and instead of trying to rationalize left brain knowledge, did I "cast my net to the right side"/brain and let go of anything I was taught or picked up from anyone else since I've been here.
Going within goes by many names, meditation probably being the most popular.
Absolutely love this reply man - and that is kind of where I'm at... spiritually starving. I'm not 100% on board with Dawkins, but most of what he says helped me solidify some things in recent years - however, my father, before he passed, had dwelled on the question "why are we here" and believed he knew the answer "to learn to love" - but I found that takes the same faith-based look at something I'm having a tough time with.
Posting this was also wanting to see if there are others here completely fine with all of the dogma and enjoy much of what it gives people but don't buy into it themselves. However, your response is resonating with me considerably regarding discovering who you really are. Clearly in the second half of my life and this is now something on my mind.
Thank you, fren
God is LIGHT.
YOU at your very core are LIGHT.
Your PURPOSE for being here in the flesh, is to spread the LIGHT into this dark sector of the universe.
When your body can no longer contain the LIGHT, the LIGHT returns to God until you move on to light up another "bulb" somewhere else. And on and on it goes.
That is ultimately your job. Forget all the other horseshit like this is a school or you've got karma to work out. It's bullshit. You are already "THAT" - You have NOTHING to learn, become or fix. You are LIFE ITSELF.
You may enjoy listening to William Donahue to get some pointings for yourself and new perspectives regarding certain things pursuant to where you are and where you want to go...This is not for everyone. But since you've reached the point on the "circle" where you're venturing into atheism, I am pointing you to William. I remember passing through this phase/zone/neighborhood on my way back to the Christ, except when I came back I left the religion part outside and only kept the Christ Consciousness part. (What the Christ was actually trying to tell all of us before religion hijacked it)
There's value there if you're sincere and mature enough...Bill explains biblical passages using science and physics. His program on God, The Christ & Quantum Entanglement is very interesting! It explains scientifically how the only way to "The Father" is through "Christ". This was important for me because I never liked the whole, "Psst...Hey I know a guy...a hole in the sky and that's the only way you're not going to Hell" nonsense...What an absolutely horrible thing to get people to believe in/be afraid of. Total shit...completely in opposition to the actual Christ.
You (and others) may find a softer, but more focused on, conscious presence pointing by listening to a Satsang (Mooji or Papaji are best) Despite misunderstandings/ignorance, it is devoid of religion and there is no deity, new age bs or anything like that. Satsang is literally about the silence within you, conscious presence and nothing else. Again, religion free...If you really listen, you'll "get it".
I'm simply sharing what I've found helpful on MY path. Your mileage will vary...It took me listening to several different things for years for it to fully sink in...and for me to have my first "breakthrough" and true communion with God. I'll NEVER forget the peace, bliss and compassion I experienced the first time. All else pales in comparison...and in that moment I KNEW I was eternal and could never really die.
And just for clarity, I'm not talking about "trippy shit" where your 3rd eye pulses out in purple trails, or other visual things typical with meditation...Visions are NOT the goal...but there's nothing wrong with that as simply a byproduct of the mind that can be enjoyed - but it's NOT the goal. Big difference. (I'm mentioning this because it'll come up sooner or later...don't be swayed by anything that "moves". God is the ONLY one who never moves)
Peace be with you. Seeking God within yourself costs you nothing & gives you everything.
Hugely appreciate this response. I am indeed going to check out Bill - although being roman catholic I'm not sure how far I'll get. And although I have made my mind up pretty solidly about the existence of a personal god that does not say I only adhere to science and that everything will have an answer in the end. I have heard similar takes on being a light that moves between bulbs and honestly I don't think a concept like that is in conflict with atheism.
I haven't heard of Satsang though and will indeed check it out as well. It is from years of "listening" and different forms of meditation even that I have come to the conclusions I have. And the concept of things that "move" is indeed what initially got me looking at atheism.
I used to say "any religion is good if it fulfills someone's needs and at the same time helps one have a good moral compass". I have found recently that although many feel the same way they almost never include atheism in this. I honestly do not think less of anyone who has religious beliefs different than mine but I know that is not at all the norm for atheists.
The power of the mind I firmly believe in and indeed I practice one form of meditation often... it has to do with "supercharging" ones mind for a bit. I can only explain it in terms I learned it from and what I use even to this day - I picture two beans (seriously... follow this) right inside my head behind my temples. I picture these while relaxing my mind (or the picturing is what relaxes my mind) and I point each index finger at my temples... then swirl my fingers as if that action is tipping the bean forward. The way it was described is encouraging your brain to use from frontal lobe more than the rest. As a developer this has been something I do often. And I fully believe there is a scientific reason for this and that is the power of the mind and the affect it can have in a tangible way... but only for me and in my head... which conflicts a little bit with Dawkins take on Atheism for example.
Thanks for the reply, fren - again I got more out of this post than I ever thought I would.
You're welcome. Here's hoping you "find center"...
What I point to is beyond the mind... beyond alpha or theta or any of that. That sort of exercise can be very helpful for certain things.
Complete stillness... not even a thought about being still. Complete nothingness... and all is revealed. No teacher. No student. No mantra. No technique. Nothing.
Cheers 🍻
I look at nature in it's entirety and marvel at its complexity and how everything works in symbiosis when man doesn't interfere. How the seasons change, the effect on plants and fish by the phases of the moon, how marvelous our bodies work... All of that. That didn't just happen.
More and more, these days, archaeological sites are being uncovered proving many parts of the Bible, including Jesus's existence. If you study religions in parallel almost all of them contain the story of the great flood, and other similarities in Bible characters. Jesus is recognised in Islam, but he is seen as a prophet, not the son of God.
Life is a precious journey and out of hundreds of sperm cells, you won the race to be here. It is not the destination of life that matters, it is what you do along the way that is so important.
And then I ask myself, what is my purpose here? What about the Life hereafter? For me, when your eyes are finally opened, and you have prayed to God several times in your life and he has heard and answered you, you will no longer be an atheist.
Don't get distracted by others or listen to the noise, no matter who they are. Look inward at yourself. There are many out there who are used by dark forces to lure you away from staying true to the course.
I grew up in a suffocating Christian Brethren home. Think Quakers. I rebelled, big time, and I'm still a rebel in that church's eyes. A lost soul. But, I know that my faith in what I believe, is all that matters. Religion should be a personal relationship with God, not a social construct dictated by man. That's when the rot sets in.
Why are we here is the one point that hints at something other than atheism for me - not agnosticism though, although I can embrace an agnostic stance in some things… this is one. I appreciate this response - I was in a weird mood when I sent this - thank you.
Reason tempers passion. Reason tempers the animal within us. Reason allows us to connect consciously to something bigger than ourselves.
This bring me to one simple observation:
We are capable of communicating through time, from past to present, by symbols, be they images or letters. We can read (literally: harvest) about the thoughts and experiences of past generations and people concerning their spirituality, and struggles within this material dimension.
Our lives are not about subordination to the solutions or convictions of the past, but to become man in our time, to live our own authority. Whatever we artificially breed, once left free without interference, returns back to its natural state.
Whether we personally postulate a God, god, gods, a supreme being or whatever, facts remain the same: our natural rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness do not come from government, government is here to protect our natural rights. Our natural rights existed before government. And we call these natural rights, because we ARE nature. We, each individual, is the embodiment of those rights.
Violation of these rights is a moral transgression.
This was well understood, once. The stories we read exemplify this notions. Think the Story of Gideon. No, not the 300 men he used, but the fact he refused to become king over other men, despite the strong pressure he was put under.
Interestingly, we can find these kind of stories in all kinds of cultures, as these reflect an eternal fact. Governments in essence are anti-life, and, by its very nature, cannot be seen as living, but dead.
Ideals carry the same ailment. The only ideal not sullied by corruption is freedom, as it is intricately tied to life.
The scriptures, pictures, art work from the past show us a world where people have struggled with this. When we look into nature, the message becomes clear.
Would you like some proof?
Where does that leave us? If we postulate that 3D is all there is, the source becomes obscure, yet, the inflection point, the starting point is always the same: We are nature. If we were to postulate other dimensions, like the 4th dimension: time, which in the words: eternal or form eternity to eternity, which from Hebrew means: from misty horizon to misty horizon, turn into the same overarching value: nature. It exists as a whole, within itself. Quite scriptural, yes? But it does not change the salient point: we are nature.
Add any number of dimensions: it does not change the salient point: we are nature.
And whether we call it: temple of god, or not, it changes not the salient point.
The issue of interest has always been: artifice, fraud, whatever name you want to give it. The moment we objectify another person, such a person becomes dead in our eyes. In our minds we have already committed a moral transgression.
To top it off:
Always love a well placed George Carlin quote :) - appreciate the reply - probably the one that has me thinking the most and I have read it no less than 4 times now as it has worded some things in ways I think I've tried to get to but couldn't find how to express. So much of where I am at is not from reading others - it has been from within and the concept of nature is, of course, a core foundation of atheism.
"We came from nature, we exist in nature, we are nature." this I don't believe should be thought of as anti-religion or anti-god - but it is this concept that to me skips the need for a personal god as one way to put it.
Regardless - thanks