It's just another forever war, it's always this or that at the start. Nek minit, it's 10 years and $100 billion. Someone has to stop it all, it seemed like it was going to be GEOTUS, but it seems not. So Israel doesn't like Iran this year, they didn't like Assad earlier on, we know they don't like Turkey - are they next on the kosher menu? After that, how about Pakistan? Will they need to be de-nuked next year? Where does it end?
I don't think that of Trump at all, it's a very MSM thing to resort to standard binary thinking.
However, a leader cannot be so definitive as Trump is trying to be on this complex matter, about geopolitical outcomes. We are in a multipolar world. Just because GEOTUS says something it doesn't mean it will be so, he said he would end the Ukraine conflict as soon as he took Office. He did not manage that. Did that mean he was some blowhard neocon? No, of course not.
He is just a man. A great man, indubitably, but he is still just a man.
And this movement is so strong because it refutes blindly following the orders of those who set themselves up as better than us. This movement is strong through critical thinking and refusing to comply when things don't make sense.
Starting a new conflict in a far away land, when that land has powerful allies, and the only obvious reason for it is to appease Zionist genocidal lunatics doesn't make any sense.
If you can make it make sense to me (without sounding as bought as Ted Cruz sounded when Tucker interviewed him) then I am completely open to reversing my position.
I wanted to start off with my appreciation for you wanting to engage in an open dialogue, even with differing viewpoints. It's refreshing to see willingness to discuss, which isn't always common here amongst the members here with the similar sentiments as yours.
The notion of a multipolar world overlooks the unipolar reality shaped by the past century. However, fostering a multipolar world should be and is the goal, and the Abraham Accords set an aspirational framework for achieving it. The unipolar world is the anomaly as Rubio put it and the goal is for the US to no longer be the world’s police force and in doing so there needs to be self-policed regional powers, that is antithetical to the globalist elite.
I am a Zionist by the truest sense of the definition. It simply means that the belief that Jews have the right to live and govern in their ancestral homeland. Like the French can have France, Japanese have Japan, etc... Anyone that believes that is a Zionist, that includes Arab Israelis and quite frankly anyone that believes in a 2 state solution, and there are even Zionist verses in the Quran. It does not mean blind support for Israeli leadership or Mossad. Even I have extreme reservations in ever moving there considering their Covid response and I have very open questions that have yet to be answered on their slow response on Oct 7, 2023.
That said, I cannot make it make sense to you as I completely disagree with that framework that Israel are a bunch of genocidal maniacs. They go to great lengths to minimize civilian casualties that are faced with an impossible task of having to rescue their people that have been kidnapped into the most dense civilian areas in the world in an underground network the size of the London Underground. You believe it’s the IDF responsible for Palestinian deaths, where I blame the Islamo-Fascists and Hamas that put their own people in harms way and those casualties are unavoidable no matter the lengths. All civilian lives needs to be protected - a Palestinian child is equal to an Israeli child. To call it genocide, which requires intent to eradicate a race is just not there and only used as a rhetorical device that does not meet reality.
Could you have a similar sentiment to me if (God forbid) the Mexican Cartel flew over into San Diego, raped, tortured, and kidnapped American civilians and started hiding under hospitals and schools in Mexico?
I agree with you on this movement has being strong in the face of strongest propaganda during the pandemic and I’m grateful for this community during those times and Biden years in general. But I am not seeing the same critical thinking amongst you lot on this issue; some of you have this bug planted inside that cannot be solved in this forum that only a precipice/singularity event can.
Now to the issue at hand with Iran. I think it’s simple - America First means the IRGC can’t have nuclear weapons. Doing so would completely destabilize the Middle East and the globe as a whole. Israel is little satan to the IRGC, and do you know who big Satan is? It would be completely naive to lull yourself into a sense of security, while their regime has increased it’s uranium enrichment capacity from 20% to 60% during the Biden regime, while calling for your downfall on a daily basis. That said, this doesn’t mean a forever war or boots-on-the-ground to achieve that goal - as a small clandestine force, or sharing bunker buster technology to reach centrifuges 200m below ground could be enough. The circumstances/and motivations are different then Iraq (2003) or Afghanistan (2009) but I can also understand the hesitations due to previous neocon administrations considering what their motivations were. I don't expect to change your mind. I ask not that you believe me but only that you consider, or perhaps understand this voice for a later time.
Ok firstly. You write beautifully well. And sorry to take so long to reply.
With such a well-written, logically stepped out think piece - it would have been disrespectful to do so in a rush.
Ahead of tackling our (now - I think minor) differences of opinion, I want to really emphasise how full of respect and grateful I am for how you presented your case.
In my daily doings in life, I simply cannot be bothered any more disagreeing with normies on any narrative inanity, because they cannot engage on substance - every question I ask is answered with the pre-packaged regime scapegoating ("anti-vaxxer", "conspiracy theorist", "misogynist", "anti-Semite").
You did not do that, you did not even come within the same zip code of doing that. You engaged on ideas. While I disagree with you (albeit to a much lesser degree than I did before reading your rebuttal), the fact that there are people in this world like you who still behave in an enlightened way - well it gives me hope for humanity. So thank you.
Firstly, let's hammer some commonality to the mast. Philosophically, in the way you describe Zionism - I have spent my whole life as a Zionist. I had enthusiastically supported how Israel defended that right to exist in the first five decades or so.
However, since my curiousity about how the world has taken such a dark terminal twist over the past quarter of a century, has led me to question everything. One of my questions is about whether Zionism has taken a dark and terminal twist of late too. I now doubt Zionism is solely about a right to exist.
I think our difference of opinion has roots in the credibility of the data points you premised your argument on. 7 October seems foundational, underpinning your logical conclusions. If the narrative as presented for the events of October 7 is accepted as gospel, then no reasonable mind could disagree with the scorched earth jihad by the Netanyahu regime.
However, being a part of this forum and the great awakening has taught us all that when a perfectly packaged, black and white narrative media bomb goes off on all channels - that it is likely a psyop. Designed to manufacture consent for some unholy, anti-human event. And when that carefully curated narrative is launched, our responsibility is to question, question, question, always question!
And there are so many unanswered questions about October 7, that I believe your premise that 10/7 is reason enough for what has transpired since - well I'm not on board with that.
Turning to the Iranian regime. I am right with you. It is a cancer in the world. But, I am struggling to see any government regime in any country at this point in time as anything other than cancerous. The jury is out still on whether the light of Trump's second term will endure, and Putin's benevolent dictatorship may not last long after his passing.
So sure Iran is a destabilising influence, in the region, but on the face of it so does the current Netanyahu regime. And while Iran has a net negative effect in the region, given the supreme control AIPAC exerts on the USA - I am starting to suspect the Netanyahu regime has a global destabilising influence.
As for your assertion that "MAGA means Iran can't have nuclear weapons" I think that's a long bow. By the same logic, then Israel, Pakistan, North Korea, India, France, UK, Russia and the USA can't have nuclear weapons.
I think the whole action is based on the fake narrative that "they're insane"
However, in conclusion, I will say that I am currently happier than I was with the status re Iran:Israel. I don't think anything is resolved. But as there has been no escalation so far, it is a good thing. I will be slightly more trusting of Trump's solutions going forward.
Thank you again for your thoughtful and well-written analysis. I am so grateful for this forum and for the great people like you who frequent it.
It's just another forever war, it's always this or that at the start. Nek minit, it's 10 years and $100 billion. Someone has to stop it all, it seemed like it was going to be GEOTUS, but it seems not. So Israel doesn't like Iran this year, they didn't like Assad earlier on, we know they don't like Turkey - are they next on the kosher menu? After that, how about Pakistan? Will they need to be de-nuked next year? Where does it end?
So was Trump lying that he said the war won't last long? Do you think Trump to be some Neocon like Bush or Obama?
Its important that you take a man at his actions these days, and not his words.
So far we are at what… a week or two?
Has he had protracted military engagements with anyone yet?
It seems like the m/o has pretty reliably been: Trump shows up, beats the shit out of his enemies, does what’s needed, and leaves.
I don't think that of Trump at all, it's a very MSM thing to resort to standard binary thinking.
However, a leader cannot be so definitive as Trump is trying to be on this complex matter, about geopolitical outcomes. We are in a multipolar world. Just because GEOTUS says something it doesn't mean it will be so, he said he would end the Ukraine conflict as soon as he took Office. He did not manage that. Did that mean he was some blowhard neocon? No, of course not.
He is just a man. A great man, indubitably, but he is still just a man.
And this movement is so strong because it refutes blindly following the orders of those who set themselves up as better than us. This movement is strong through critical thinking and refusing to comply when things don't make sense.
Starting a new conflict in a far away land, when that land has powerful allies, and the only obvious reason for it is to appease Zionist genocidal lunatics doesn't make any sense.
If you can make it make sense to me (without sounding as bought as Ted Cruz sounded when Tucker interviewed him) then I am completely open to reversing my position.
I wanted to start off with my appreciation for you wanting to engage in an open dialogue, even with differing viewpoints. It's refreshing to see willingness to discuss, which isn't always common here amongst the members here with the similar sentiments as yours.
The notion of a multipolar world overlooks the unipolar reality shaped by the past century. However, fostering a multipolar world should be and is the goal, and the Abraham Accords set an aspirational framework for achieving it. The unipolar world is the anomaly as Rubio put it and the goal is for the US to no longer be the world’s police force and in doing so there needs to be self-policed regional powers, that is antithetical to the globalist elite.
I am a Zionist by the truest sense of the definition. It simply means that the belief that Jews have the right to live and govern in their ancestral homeland. Like the French can have France, Japanese have Japan, etc... Anyone that believes that is a Zionist, that includes Arab Israelis and quite frankly anyone that believes in a 2 state solution, and there are even Zionist verses in the Quran. It does not mean blind support for Israeli leadership or Mossad. Even I have extreme reservations in ever moving there considering their Covid response and I have very open questions that have yet to be answered on their slow response on Oct 7, 2023.
That said, I cannot make it make sense to you as I completely disagree with that framework that Israel are a bunch of genocidal maniacs. They go to great lengths to minimize civilian casualties that are faced with an impossible task of having to rescue their people that have been kidnapped into the most dense civilian areas in the world in an underground network the size of the London Underground. You believe it’s the IDF responsible for Palestinian deaths, where I blame the Islamo-Fascists and Hamas that put their own people in harms way and those casualties are unavoidable no matter the lengths. All civilian lives needs to be protected - a Palestinian child is equal to an Israeli child. To call it genocide, which requires intent to eradicate a race is just not there and only used as a rhetorical device that does not meet reality.
Could you have a similar sentiment to me if (God forbid) the Mexican Cartel flew over into San Diego, raped, tortured, and kidnapped American civilians and started hiding under hospitals and schools in Mexico?
I agree with you on this movement has being strong in the face of strongest propaganda during the pandemic and I’m grateful for this community during those times and Biden years in general. But I am not seeing the same critical thinking amongst you lot on this issue; some of you have this bug planted inside that cannot be solved in this forum that only a precipice/singularity event can.
Now to the issue at hand with Iran. I think it’s simple - America First means the IRGC can’t have nuclear weapons. Doing so would completely destabilize the Middle East and the globe as a whole. Israel is little satan to the IRGC, and do you know who big Satan is? It would be completely naive to lull yourself into a sense of security, while their regime has increased it’s uranium enrichment capacity from 20% to 60% during the Biden regime, while calling for your downfall on a daily basis. That said, this doesn’t mean a forever war or boots-on-the-ground to achieve that goal - as a small clandestine force, or sharing bunker buster technology to reach centrifuges 200m below ground could be enough. The circumstances/and motivations are different then Iraq (2003) or Afghanistan (2009) but I can also understand the hesitations due to previous neocon administrations considering what their motivations were. I don't expect to change your mind. I ask not that you believe me but only that you consider, or perhaps understand this voice for a later time.
Ok firstly. You write beautifully well. And sorry to take so long to reply.
With such a well-written, logically stepped out think piece - it would have been disrespectful to do so in a rush.
Ahead of tackling our (now - I think minor) differences of opinion, I want to really emphasise how full of respect and grateful I am for how you presented your case.
In my daily doings in life, I simply cannot be bothered any more disagreeing with normies on any narrative inanity, because they cannot engage on substance - every question I ask is answered with the pre-packaged regime scapegoating ("anti-vaxxer", "conspiracy theorist", "misogynist", "anti-Semite").
You did not do that, you did not even come within the same zip code of doing that. You engaged on ideas. While I disagree with you (albeit to a much lesser degree than I did before reading your rebuttal), the fact that there are people in this world like you who still behave in an enlightened way - well it gives me hope for humanity. So thank you.
Firstly, let's hammer some commonality to the mast. Philosophically, in the way you describe Zionism - I have spent my whole life as a Zionist. I had enthusiastically supported how Israel defended that right to exist in the first five decades or so.
However, since my curiousity about how the world has taken such a dark terminal twist over the past quarter of a century, has led me to question everything. One of my questions is about whether Zionism has taken a dark and terminal twist of late too. I now doubt Zionism is solely about a right to exist.
I think our difference of opinion has roots in the credibility of the data points you premised your argument on. 7 October seems foundational, underpinning your logical conclusions. If the narrative as presented for the events of October 7 is accepted as gospel, then no reasonable mind could disagree with the scorched earth jihad by the Netanyahu regime.
However, being a part of this forum and the great awakening has taught us all that when a perfectly packaged, black and white narrative media bomb goes off on all channels - that it is likely a psyop. Designed to manufacture consent for some unholy, anti-human event. And when that carefully curated narrative is launched, our responsibility is to question, question, question, always question!
And there are so many unanswered questions about October 7, that I believe your premise that 10/7 is reason enough for what has transpired since - well I'm not on board with that.
Turning to the Iranian regime. I am right with you. It is a cancer in the world. But, I am struggling to see any government regime in any country at this point in time as anything other than cancerous. The jury is out still on whether the light of Trump's second term will endure, and Putin's benevolent dictatorship may not last long after his passing.
So sure Iran is a destabilising influence, in the region, but on the face of it so does the current Netanyahu regime. And while Iran has a net negative effect in the region, given the supreme control AIPAC exerts on the USA - I am starting to suspect the Netanyahu regime has a global destabilising influence.
As for your assertion that "MAGA means Iran can't have nuclear weapons" I think that's a long bow. By the same logic, then Israel, Pakistan, North Korea, India, France, UK, Russia and the USA can't have nuclear weapons.
I think the whole action is based on the fake narrative that "they're insane"
https://substack.com/@caitlinjohnstone/note/c-129751203
However, in conclusion, I will say that I am currently happier than I was with the status re Iran:Israel. I don't think anything is resolved. But as there has been no escalation so far, it is a good thing. I will be slightly more trusting of Trump's solutions going forward.
Thank you again for your thoughtful and well-written analysis. I am so grateful for this forum and for the great people like you who frequent it.