Welcome to General Chat - GAW Community Area
This General Chat area started off as a place for people to talk about things that are off topic, however it has quickly evolved into a community and has become an integral part of the GAW experience for many of us.
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Rules for General Chat
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Rules For the rest of the Site also accessible on the sidebar.
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So…basically it was all the old commie Bernie bro supporters that showed up for the no kings rallies around the country?🤔
Another Big Mistake in Evolution BY FRANK SHERWIN, D.SC. (HON.) * |
https://www.icr.org/article/another-big-mistake-evolution/
The strange and wonderful coelacanth1 has long been a challenge to evolutionists.
The coelacanth has long been hailed as an ancestor to amphibians and other tetrapods as their lineage goes back a supposed 300 million years. However, the exact origin of coelacanths has never been established by evolutionary scientists, the fish just seem to appear in the rocks “suddenly” like most all fossil organisms. And modern coelacanths were also found to give birth to live young (like some sharks), unlike their supposed descendants, the amphibians.2
The living version of this “fossil”3 has recently surprised evolutionists.4 A significant portion of the cranial musculature of the “ancient” coelacanths was found to be wrong. By reanalyzing “the skull musculature of coelacanths, a group of fish that has existed for 400 million years, [researchers] concluded that many structures had been incorrectly described.”5
Evolutionists writing in Science Advances stated,
Despite being one of the most iconic living vertebrates, we found a plethora of errors in the identification of cranial muscles in the African coelacanth (Latimeria chalumnae), some of which have been replicated for nearly 70 years. Given the key position of coelacanths in the vertebrate tree of life, correcting these errors has profound implications for understanding the early gnathostome evolution.6
Because of these glaring mistakes, it
means foundational assumptions about how vertebrates, including humans, evolved to eat and breathe may need to be rewritten. The discovery corrects decades of anatomical errors, reshapes the story of skull evolution, and brings unexpected insights into our own distant origins.5
Contradictions and misidentifications abound in this recent coelacanth discovery.
“There were many contradictions in the literature. When we finally got to examine the specimens, we detected more errors than we’d imagined. For example, 11 structures described as muscles were actually ligaments or other types of connective tissue. This has a drastic consequence for the functioning of the mouth and breathing, because muscles perform movement, while ligaments only transmit it,” [Datovo] explains.5
Aside from these errors, Science Daily also reported on the supposed implications for where coelacanths fit in evolution, “From images of the skull bones of other fish from completely extinct lineages, Datovo and Johnson were able to infer where the muscles found in coelacanths would fit, elucidating the evolution of these muscles in the first jawed vertebrates.”5 Not only is such an exercise subjective, but the first jawed vertebrates—evolutionarily speaking—have yet to be found.
The ancestral vertebrate (protovertebrate) has been sought for more than 100 years, and the likelihood of finding it today is not much greater than in the past. It can be assumed that the protovertebrate was small and soft-bodied, two factors that suggest the improbability of finding a fossilized form in a recognizable condition.7 (Emphasis added)
In their Science Advances article, Datovo and Johnson appeal to homology (which is a “controversial term”8) to make their case for connecting “coelacanth muscles with those of other jawed fishes.”6 But William Dembski and the late Jonathan Wells wrote in The Design of Life that
Neo-Darwinists continue to defend their conjunction of homology with common ancestry, whereas critics object that it confuses definition with explanation and leads to circular reasoning. The [late] philosopher of biology Ronald Brady, one of the more outspoken critics of neo-Darwinism in the last generation, observed, ‘By making our explanation into the condition to be explained, we express not scientific hypothesis but belief . . . Dogmatic endeavors of this kind must eventually leave the realm of science.’9
These incomplete evolutionary lineages and controversial explanations point to the bigger mistake that evolutionists believe: that the strange and unscientific vertebrate tree of life, as mentioned in the Science Daily5 and the Science Advances6 articles, is true even though it is only hypothetical.10 The nodes on the tree of life, places where there should be a common ancestor of two given species, are always empty. Indeed, Datovo and Johnson said,
It is currently impossible to indicate at which node of the sarcopterygian tree the attachment of the spiracularis [muscle] to the palatoquadrate [muscle] evolved. In any case, the presence of the spiracularis is probably primitive for gnathostomes, since acanthodians, placoderms, and some extinct agnathans apparently had functional spiracles.6 (Emphasis added)
W. Ford Doolittle is an evolutionary bioinformatics specialist, and he said that “the history of life cannot properly be represented as a tree.”11
Despite these objections to the tree of life and common ancestors, conventional scientists continue to assume evolution is fact and try to explain how it occurs and why it doesn’t happen when stasis is evident. The Science Daily article tried to explain the stasis in fossil and living coelacanths with slow changes of their genome: “One reason they have changed so little since the extinction of the dinosaurs is that they have few predators and live in a relatively protected environment. This has resulted in slow changes to their genome, as shown by a 2013 study published in the journal Nature.”5
But few predators and general environmental safety don’t adequately explain how little these fish have changed. ICR’s Brian Thomas addressed this.
A team led by German researchers from Ruhr-University Bochum published the first genetic population survey of these storied fishes in the journal Current Biology. They analyzed DNA sequences from 71 adult coelacanth fish.
The team analyzed the most variable region of the mitochondrial chromosome, the “d-loop.” After 400 million years, different fish populations should show significant differences, but only 8 of 726 coelacanth d-loop base pairs showed variation. Such a low number of differences is easily explained if coelacanth are only thousands of years old.4
Dr. Thomas went on to say, “To have only produced 8 out of 726 base pairs in mitochondrial DNA’s most highly variable region after 400 million supposed years would be a rate so ‘extremely slow’ that it defies credibility.”4
Yes, science is self-correcting, and humans—even evolutionists—are fallible. It was helpful for ichthyologists to discover that a substantial portion of the cranial musculature of the supposedly ancient coelacanths was wrong. But correcting these mistakes within the irrational evolutionary, deep-time paradigm will never lead zoologists to connect the dots within the gnathostomes (jawed vertebrates). The roadblocks include homology, the vertebrate tree of life, the lack of transitional forms, and the coelacanth genome. The coelacanth and other fish were created on Day 5, just thousands of years ago.
References
Sherwin, F. Fossil Fish Finally Filmed. Creation Science Update. Posted on ICR.org May 19, 2025. Clarey, T. and J. Tomkins. Coelacanths: Evolutionists Still Fishing in Shallow Water. Creation Science Update. Posted on ICR.org April 29, 2013. Thomas, B. Should We Drop the Term ‘Living Fossil’? Creation Science Update. Posted on ICR.org July 18, 2016. Thomas, B. Lobe-Finned Fish Supplies Surprises. Creation Science Update. Posted on ICR.org August 24, 2012. 400-Million-Year-Old Fish Exposes Big Mistake in How We Understood Evolution. Fundação de Amparo à Pesquisa do Estado de São Paulo. Posted on sciencedaily.com July 29, 2025. Datovo, A. and D. Johnson. 2025. Coelacanths Illuminate Deep-Time Evolution of Cranial Musculature in Jawed Vertebrates. Science Advances. 11 (18). Jollie, M. July 31, 2025. Evolution and Paleontology. Encyclopedia Britannica. Thain, M. and M. Hickman. 2004. Dictionary of Biology. London, UK: Penguin Books, 353. Wells, J. and W. Dembski. 2008. The Design of Life. Seattle, WA: Dallas Foundation for Thought and Ethics, 125. Tomkins, J. and J. Bergman. 2013. Incomplete Lineage Sorting and Other ‘Rogue’ Data Fell the Tree of Life. Journal of Creation. 27 (3): 84–92. Doolittle, W. 1999. Phylogenetic Classification and the Universal Tree. Science. 284 (5423): 2124–2129.
Idk how accurate this article is , it says 9 hrs ago Trump called Rand a nasty lifdle guy for not voting with Republicans I can’t fact check right now, at a restaurant
LINK
It should be easy enough to correlate the babies that died of SIDS with their vaccination status. Any generalities fall short since we should have that data to use. Or, is vaccination status hidden in medical records?
they invented “SIDS” in 1969 to coverup vaccine deaths
and the same people who invented SIDS to coverup vaccine deaths in 1969
now claim they are still unable to find any links between vaccines and SIDS in 2025
🤔🤔🤔
once the light bulb comes on,
that “ah-ha moment when you finally realize…
why “doctors baffled” is such a good meme…
I remember years ago hearing about the correlation of SIDS with formula feeding. IIRC the theory was that the formula keeps the baby full longer, they sleep deeper and uninterrupted, and it can lead to SIDS. Oftentimes poorer people have to formula feed, too.
once you finally realize they invented SIDS to coverup vaccine deaths…
then you finally understand that EVERY sids death is caused by vaccines
SIDS is the un-official-official way of saying “death by vaccine”…
without actually mentioning the vaccine
SIDS is a conclusion the medical examiners come to by systematically excluding ALL other known causes of death during autopsy, labs, etc
ALL EXCEPT VACCINES
It is theoretically possible for the medical examinerto do certain checks to see if a vaccine contributed to the death,
However, the medical examiners routinely do not do these checks to see if a vaccine contributed to the death,
Supposedly because it would be sooooOOOOOOooooooo implausible for a vaccine to cause any death…
So, the medical examiners
THEY DO NOT LOOK.
ON PURPOSE.
THIS IS WILLFUL IGNORANCE.
This is derelection of duty
so because they don’t look, then they can’t see…
so instead of LOOKING TO SEE,
the medical examiner will make the wild assumption that its far too implausible for vaccines to cause any death,
even though the CDC webpage that lists all of the vaccines, lists DEATH as a risk for each and every vaccine on the list…
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/basics/possible-side-effects.html
The medical examiner feign ignorance,
Rather than to attribute a death to a vaccine
“Doctors give baby 6 vaccines, baby dies mere hours later, doctors absolutely baffled”
I appreciate your passion around this topic, Fren. I am inclined to agree it’s primarily vax, just sharing another mechanism or contributor I had heard over the years. All of the “modern” things we do in the name of progress have unintended, and increasingly we are becoming aware, deadly consequences. I nearly scared myself to death when I was pregnant with my first, learning about all the ways things can go sideways because of doctors, up to and including delivery. We are our own biggest advocates, and to me doctors are for life and death emergency. Beyond that they meddle and invent new issues and look and refer until some problem is found. Partially not their fault because of how they are trained (lack of meaningful education on many key areas), but with a blind eye to “the science” that is utterly unforgivable. Patients change diet or fast or X and see radical reversals of disease and doctors aren’t investigating or validating or championing. Some don’t even care to know the likely cause. They have lost their way and are slave to a paycheck to pay off a loan from being indoctrinated in a Rockefeller medical school. Rant over.
I hope you have a blessed day, Fren.
You need to provide sources for your assertions
u/VaccinesCauseSids
Have you seen the timelines of SIDS corresponding to dates of vaccination? It may not be the only factor, but that correlation is very damming.
Slowing Plates Support High Flood Boundary BY TIM CLAREY, PH.D. | MONDAY, OCTOBER 13, 2025
https://www.icr.org/article/slowing-plates-support-high-flood-boundary/
Flood geologists have predicted that plate motion slowed at the end of the Flood year, and now conventional scientists are finding it to be true. A recent study by Colleen Dalton and her colleagues from Brown University in Providence, RI, found that ocean crust production slowed by 35% from 15–6 million years ago, or late in the Tertiary.1 Although we dispute these great ages, the data still indicate a slowdown in plate movement occurred exactly when predicted, coinciding with the end of the Flood.2 And this slowdown was global, with 15 of 18 ocean ridges slowing at this same time.1
The best mechanism for the Flood is catastrophic plate tectonics, proposed by Dr. John Baumgardner and others in 1994.2 Specifically, he suggested that runaway subduction was the driving force for the rapid plate motion before its slowdown. And in an earlier study, Dalton and her team concluded that slab pull was “responsible for 60-70% of the force on subducted slabs.”3 As the slabs of the seafloor sank into the mantle, new seafloor was created at the adjacent ocean ridges.
Baumgardner points out that the cold pre-Flood seafloor was completely and rapidly consumed during the yearlong event and was rapidly replaced with today’s hotter, young igneous ocean seafloor. He explains,
In regard to the fate of the pre-Flood seafloor, there is strong observational support in global seismic tomography models for cold, dense material near the base of the lower mantle in a belt surrounding the present Pacific Ocean.4
He suggests that during the Flood cold plates were rapidly pulled down into the mantle, causing a thermal frictional envelope to develop around them by reducing viscosity (fluid-like thickness) in the mantle and “resulting in a sinking rate . . . higher than would occur otherwise.”4 Baumgardner found that once the older, colder, originally created oceanic crust and lithosphere began to subduct, it would speed up and drop into the less-dense hot mantle like a fishing weight in water. He referred to this as runaway subduction.4 He suggested that the rates of movement were meters per second, not centimeters per year as conventional scientists like to suggest.
It was the higher density of the heavy, cold, original ocean seafloor that allowed the runaway subduction process to begin and continue. The high density material served essentially as the fuel. Baumgardner described it as “gravitational energy driving the motion” of the plates.5 The runaway process continued until the original, created oceanic lithosphere was totally consumed. In other words, the Flood continued until the newer, more buoyant seafloor could no longer subduct because it was too buoyant. This, brought plate motion and the production of new seafloor at ocean ridges to a virtual standstill. And without new seafloor pushing the water upward, the flooding of the continents ceased, ending the Flood. Because of this, today’s plate motions shift only a few centimeters per year.
And this is exactly what Dalton and her team found. They found global evidence that the plates did, in fact, slow their motion all at the same time. Furthermore, they found that this slowdown happened abruptly, writing, “Here, we document spreading-rate reductions that are nearly global and relatively fast, in many cases >20% over 5 Myr [million years] or less.”3
Obviously, we disagree with the deep-time paradigm used in these studies. But ICR’s current model of a progressive Flood is strongly supported by this new evidence. As previously mentioned, Dalton’s team found that seafloor production slowed significantly in the late Tertiary, and we had previously suggested that the Flood didn’t end in the geologic record until late in the Tertiary (or Tejas Megasequence), just before the Ice Age.6
Additionally, this new discovery supports our interpretation of a high Cenozoic end of the Flood, which we call the N-Q (Neogene-Quaternary), because it was at this level in the rock record when new ocean seafloor nearly ceased forming across the globe. Without the formation of new seafloor, the flooding of the land would have ceased, ending the Flood.6 Simply put, when subduction slowed globally, the production of new seafloor at the ridges also slowed. It’s no surprise this occurred abruptly and globally since they are linked, cause and effect.3 And this is exactly what our model suggested.6
The upper subdivisions of the geologic column with the N-Q and the K-Pg boundaries identified Image credit: Susan Windsor ICR’s Flood model suggests that the floodwaters peaked near the end of the Cretaceous (top of the Zuni Megasequence) and began to recede during the Tertiary (or Tejas Megasequence). The cooling of newly created seafloor later in the Flood year caused the ocean floor to sink and the floodwaters to be drawn back into the ocean basins. Catastrophic plate motion continued throughout the Tertiary, until all of the original seafloor was completely consumed, causing the plates to abruptly slow to today’s rates. These two recent studies appear to document the very moment when the plates slowed.1,3
Dalton and her team of researchers unknowingly found evidence to support the catastrophic plate tectonics model.1,3 Sometimes data simply speak for itself. Scientific evidence continues to stack up in support of biblical truth. The rocks don’t lie!
References
Dalton, C. A. et al. 2025. Consequences of a Global Slowdown in Seafloor Spreading for Sea Level and Mantle Heat Loss. Geochemistry, Geophysics, Geosystems. 26 (2). Austin, S. A. et al. 1994. Catastrophic Plate Tectonics: A Global Flood Model of Earth History. Proceedings of the International Conference on Creationism. 3, article 56: 609–622. Dalton, C. A., D. S. Wilson, and T. D. Herbert. 2022. Evidence for a Global Slowdown in Seafloor Spreading since 15 Ma. Geophysical Research Letters. 49 (6). Baumgardner, J. 1994. Runaway Subduction as the Driving Mechanism for the Genesis Flood. Proceedings of the International Conference on Creationism. 3, article 14: 63–75. Baumgardner, J. 2018. Numerical Modeling of the Large-Scale Erosion, Sediment Transport, and Deposition Processes of the Genesis Flood. Answers Research Journal 11: 149–170. Clarey, T. 2020. Carved in Stone: Geological Evidence of the Worldwide Flood. Dallas, TX: The Institute for Creation Research. *Dr. Clarey is the director of research at the Institute for Creation Research and earned his doctorate in geology from Western Michigan University.
That was....educational.
I stopped reading after 15–6 million years ago If you believe the Bible is true and are Christian I don’t understand how any believer can believe the earth is millions of years old. That’s another lie created by scientists and non believers. Just as far fetched as humans evolved from monkeys. I’m not starting an argument. We all have to the right to believe how we choose.
I don't even believe the Earth is real real.. I think it's a realm.. and according to many NDE testimonies, life on the other side is actually more real than this one. Boy, I must be at conspiracy level 10. lol
Ha ha, I hear you. I can’t let myself go there. It’s taken me a long time to get back to my normal self after everything I’ve learned here in the past five years. I’m finally getting back to my old self. That’s one of many reasons I’m not here as much. Got to much to fix on myself and when I go down rabbit holes I get so distracted. By the way I totally believe time travel is real. Just not like Hollywood’s version. I really think that and aliens have something to do with demonic portals. I don’t research it because it’s just another rabbit hole.
Well said. I'm the same way.. just knowing they exist and the infinite possibilities is sufficient for me. This way we're prepared if we see weird things in the sky or from other realms, won't be scared or surprised and just say our prayers like it's another Tuesday at the office. Kek..
I do love pondering upon them though. Have you ever read Sophie's World?
It's young adult book on philosophies, but it makes sense that the more we think about these things the more the illusions start to peel off in our own lives. You should check it out.
I haven’t read that, yet😊 I’ve probably watched every time travel & apocalypse show that’s been made. I’m obsessed with Outlander, trying to get through those huge books. Claire reminds me of a modern day Scarlett O’Hara & the actress looks like her. Good thing I’ve got a great man. If not I’d be trying to fall through rocks for a 1700s highlighter in a kilt😆
Lol I enjoyed Outlander the TV show but boy, is the writer obsessed with g*ng rape? and making medieval men all act like animals? That's the one issue I had. Looks like writer is a liberal.. I think I watched till season 6 and lost track :D
You are probably right, anyone that makes it has had to pass the liberal test. I FF through that part and skipped it in the book. I found it because it’s historical drama. I spend more time watching or reading about the past than the present. I can’t tell you why, I’ve always been abscessed with history. I mainly watch historical docs & biblical/christian stuff on YouTube. Season 6? Heck you only have two seasons to go. The last season, 8, comes out next year.
"15–6 million years ago, or late in the Tertiary.1 Although we dispute these great ages, the data still indicate a slowdown in plate movement occurred exactly when predicted, coinciding with the end of the Flood."
He quotes secular scientists but disputes their assumptions of ages. ICR is a young Earth org.
Ok, you got me I’ll read it.
1 Corinthians 3&4 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and the God of all comfort; Who comforeth us in our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.
Psalm 90:16&17
Let your work be shown to your servants, and your glorious power to their children. 17 Let the favor of the Lord our God be upon us, and establish the work of our hands upon us; yes, establish the work of our hands!