I'm, wondering, given all the fraud relating to our tax dollars, how easy or difficult it would be to convict a citizen for tax evasion in today's environment. Especially if the defense is: I was so sickened by all the fraud and waste of my hard earned tax dollars, I did not want to any longer contribute to it.
In a jury trial, I think the odds are pretty good at least one juror would not convict on this basis. What do you think?
I think part of the op is that we need to wake up people to the tax issue. We shouldn't have an income tax and we didn't for most of the country's history. The globalists changed it in 1913 and it's only gotten worse since then. The IRS won't stand a chance if even a small % of us revolt.
No, that defense routinely fails jury trials, which only happen when a person makes enough money (high six figures) and is recalcitrant for enough years (about five) to warrant the jury trial. The ordinary person shouldn't engage knowing tax evasion in any case: he should use the administrative steps permitted to keep his record compliant with what he knows the laws to be. The IRS doesn't press to jury trial unless they believe they've correctly stacked the deck: others will be prosecuted by other means (including lying fees) or even by ignorance when the potential receipts are too small (which many small players mistake for victory but which is only the IRS biding its time on prosecution).
See my separate comment about moral steps of obedience and disobedience.
Just be careful what you say, if you're forced to correspond with the beaurocracy. Just like with an insurance company. They sit back and let you talk, incriminating yourself. Its a matter of jurisdiction, and they have none over a sovereign human man or woman. They have jurisdiction over your [ALL CAPS NAME] but nothing more. We are humans, not corporate entities. I will also not be filing this year, and I'll be talking to my HR rep here as well to get my paperwork fixed. Which will raise some eyebrows but I dont care.
They do seek to incriminate you, but the capitalized name is not the nexus of the scheme and is a distraction that allows them to scoop up people who argue it. The nexus is that income tax is in the nature of an excise, and excises do not apply to rights, which include the right to exchange labor for pay. Therefore it is necessary to reject suggestions that earnings were subject to excise if legally they were not. The details are easy to follow for those interested in asking questions.
Yes, the exchange for my labor is not income, its my property. The legal versus lawful argument is kind of where I was going. Interesting comment nonethel3ss. Thank you
Some people take that approach just fine and it can be pursued with complete morality, unless and until a redline is reached. The critical mass we need isn't for everyone. Please see my separate comment on obedience and disobedience.
I hear ya brother,just to be clear,they the IRS will spend thousand of dollars or more and man hours to go after a few dollars and will fuck you up and your life.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of the transactions are computer generated. Your employer sends a copy of your W-2 directly to the IRS electronically. You have roughly until the summer after the previous tax filing close on October 15 to file. (So, for 2025 income, with a tax return extension due date of October 15, 2026, you have roughly until July of 2027.). After that, the IRS issues a matching notice and requests a tax return. From there, you have roughly 6 more months (if you ignore the letters) before the IRS produces its own version of what your return should be, using the most disadvantaged numbers as possible, and starts garnishing your wages and putting liens on your property.
If you do not respond to the letters, it is just an automated process. The computer system is set to continuously churn out escalating notices, every 30 days. Then, it flips to sending a notice to your employer to start involuntarily taking money out of your paycheck.
Just a rough outline of what goes on.
If you are heading down that path, my suggestion is to not ignore the letters. Request extensions of time, continue to communicate. If you are communicating, it rarely gets escalated to garnishment. As well, communication then brings in a person, versus just the computer.
The IRS will still say you "owe" them. But you revolt and reclaim your power by keeping your hard earned money and telling them to f off. If even a small % of us push back the IRS is finished. Ask Grok about what a tax revolt would look like. We can absolutely do this!
Anyone can change W4 to exempt if they believe in good faith they do not owe taxes: guard your good faith.
If you file anything stating you don't owe while you don't have a guarded good-faith belief you don't owe, it's better to do nothing (you get a couple years of being "late" to file for you to sort things out before harsher treatment kicks in).
The person who doesn't file in good faith, and/or who files a multimonth extension of time to file, is doing an important service of withholding transfer of funds to the government, just as the exempt W4 filer is, and that's a big deal if lots do it.
But for the rest my general advice is DON'T REVOLT.
Don't frame that you are disobeying the tax law, frame that you are learning the tax law and insisting that it be followed scrupulously, in that it doesn't tax and cannot tax the right to exchange labor for pay. It can only tax "income" (profit) that was earned as a privilege of some gift that the government has given, not what is earned as a right. The Supremes and the Congress have ensured that the laws nominally follow that rule while also getting hundreds of millions to believe their labor should be taxable and to voluntarily file tax payments upon it.
Many classes of labor are indeed taxable because they arise from demonstrable federal privilege and the law provides for such taxation, first and foremost federal employees and federal corporations, but not limited to those. So ensure your labor is not taxable:
(1) TAKE YOUR POWER BACK BY LEARNING THE LAW AND THEN PAYING ONLY WHAT YOU OWE AND NO MORE.
Now, the movement toward correct application of the tax law neatly aligns with both Trump's work toward defanging the IRS and moving toward tariffs, and the movement of peaceful civil disobedience. I don't counsel against PCD but I warn people it's not for everyone. If you cannot find an interpretation of law by which you are comfortable with the tax burden, but you still believe you have a moral imperative not to pay it, you must remain peaceful and civil to retain the moral high ground. You will be classed with agents provocateur who speak patriotically and then torch the rule of law. The language is not to join the disobedient just because the government is evil, instead it is to join the disobedient because one is fully prepared to defend oneself and take the risks and stand on the moral high ground and never to relinquish it by participation in more rebellion than is necessary to maintain one's good conscience. In fact we should recall that there is still risk of such pushback as J6ers received, four years hard prison for no crime. So even if your PCD redline has been crossed by another, don't cross your own conscience but only a specifically defined law that you have formally judged unjust.
(2) TAKE YOUR POWER BACK BY BEING VERY SPECIFIC ABOUT WHAT LAW YOU DISOBEY AND LIMITING YOUR DISOBEDIENCE TO PEACEFUL, CIVIL, HIGH-GROUND APPEAL TO YOUR CONSCIENCE AND YOUR PREPARATION TO SUFFER FOR IT.
Those of lesser means should never fight the tax by blustering complaints as they have no positive effect and can be taken as provocation. They should fight tax they sincerely disbelieve in by exhausting means of appeal and redirection while conscientiously learning the law (notably, extension, and periods of nonfiling for up to about 2 years while maintaining records to permit retroactive filing when one's defense is prepared). Those of greater means are free to temporarily pay the tax that others expect while preparing their research hubs to ensure their affairs are fully in order before announcing a change in practice. (Businessmen have been metaphorically crucified for declaring tax revolts while making technical errors that could be seized upon: The law is not based on one man's opinion but on what Congress and the Court say, and it can take a little consultation and comparison to be absolutely certain. Those who charge for advice are less likely to be accurate than those who speak freely and/or ask for the nominal price of their print media.)
JANUARY IS THE RIGHT TIME FOR PEOPLE TO REALIZE THE FRAUD INHERENT IN THE W-2'S THEY RECEIVE. Now learn the law and use your resources to protect yourself in this window. It's not necessary to act crazy because most everything can be handled administratively and professionally. The reasonable man of means has no need to call attention to a rash movement when the law can be learned in a relatively brief amount of time with relative certainty of its application. I don't speak much of my own preparations but I do answer all questions I can cognize.
I'm, wondering, given all the fraud relating to our tax dollars, how easy or difficult it would be to convict a citizen for tax evasion in today's environment. Especially if the defense is: I was so sickened by all the fraud and waste of my hard earned tax dollars, I did not want to any longer contribute to it.
In a jury trial, I think the odds are pretty good at least one juror would not convict on this basis. What do you think?
I think part of the op is that we need to wake up people to the tax issue. We shouldn't have an income tax and we didn't for most of the country's history. The globalists changed it in 1913 and it's only gotten worse since then. The IRS won't stand a chance if even a small % of us revolt.
No, that defense routinely fails jury trials, which only happen when a person makes enough money (high six figures) and is recalcitrant for enough years (about five) to warrant the jury trial. The ordinary person shouldn't engage knowing tax evasion in any case: he should use the administrative steps permitted to keep his record compliant with what he knows the laws to be. The IRS doesn't press to jury trial unless they believe they've correctly stacked the deck: others will be prosecuted by other means (including lying fees) or even by ignorance when the potential receipts are too small (which many small players mistake for victory but which is only the IRS biding its time on prosecution).
See my separate comment about moral steps of obedience and disobedience.
Just be careful what you say, if you're forced to correspond with the beaurocracy. Just like with an insurance company. They sit back and let you talk, incriminating yourself. Its a matter of jurisdiction, and they have none over a sovereign human man or woman. They have jurisdiction over your [ALL CAPS NAME] but nothing more. We are humans, not corporate entities. I will also not be filing this year, and I'll be talking to my HR rep here as well to get my paperwork fixed. Which will raise some eyebrows but I dont care.
They do seek to incriminate you, but the capitalized name is not the nexus of the scheme and is a distraction that allows them to scoop up people who argue it. The nexus is that income tax is in the nature of an excise, and excises do not apply to rights, which include the right to exchange labor for pay. Therefore it is necessary to reject suggestions that earnings were subject to excise if legally they were not. The details are easy to follow for those interested in asking questions.
Yes, the exchange for my labor is not income, its my property. The legal versus lawful argument is kind of where I was going. Interesting comment nonethel3ss. Thank you
thats a great sentiment fern but for this to work we need the numbers..a lot of them..or they will single out a few and fuk ya like a 2 bit whore
That's one problem i don't need,not sure you know who your dealing with,to be on the safe side i'm still filing like always until Daddy destroys it.
Some people take that approach just fine and it can be pursued with complete morality, unless and until a redline is reached. The critical mass we need isn't for everyone. Please see my separate comment on obedience and disobedience.
I hear ya brother,just to be clear,they the IRS will spend thousand of dollars or more and man hours to go after a few dollars and will fuck you up and your life.
I have $0.00 withheld from Social security and I’ll be doing the same with my own retirement funds.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of the transactions are computer generated. Your employer sends a copy of your W-2 directly to the IRS electronically. You have roughly until the summer after the previous tax filing close on October 15 to file. (So, for 2025 income, with a tax return extension due date of October 15, 2026, you have roughly until July of 2027.). After that, the IRS issues a matching notice and requests a tax return. From there, you have roughly 6 more months (if you ignore the letters) before the IRS produces its own version of what your return should be, using the most disadvantaged numbers as possible, and starts garnishing your wages and putting liens on your property.
If you do not respond to the letters, it is just an automated process. The computer system is set to continuously churn out escalating notices, every 30 days. Then, it flips to sending a notice to your employer to start involuntarily taking money out of your paycheck.
Just a rough outline of what goes on.
If you are heading down that path, my suggestion is to not ignore the letters. Request extensions of time, continue to communicate. If you are communicating, it rarely gets escalated to garnishment. As well, communication then brings in a person, versus just the computer.
My 2 cents … for what it’s worth!
The IRS will still say you "owe" them. But you revolt and reclaim your power by keeping your hard earned money and telling them to f off. If even a small % of us push back the IRS is finished. Ask Grok about what a tax revolt would look like. We can absolutely do this!
Thank you.
Lean back in your chair. I think taxes below $150K will be going away relatively soon.
Yes and no.
Anyone can change W4 to exempt if they believe in good faith they do not owe taxes: guard your good faith.
If you file anything stating you don't owe while you don't have a guarded good-faith belief you don't owe, it's better to do nothing (you get a couple years of being "late" to file for you to sort things out before harsher treatment kicks in).
The person who doesn't file in good faith, and/or who files a multimonth extension of time to file, is doing an important service of withholding transfer of funds to the government, just as the exempt W4 filer is, and that's a big deal if lots do it.
But for the rest my general advice is DON'T REVOLT.
Don't frame that you are disobeying the tax law, frame that you are learning the tax law and insisting that it be followed scrupulously, in that it doesn't tax and cannot tax the right to exchange labor for pay. It can only tax "income" (profit) that was earned as a privilege of some gift that the government has given, not what is earned as a right. The Supremes and the Congress have ensured that the laws nominally follow that rule while also getting hundreds of millions to believe their labor should be taxable and to voluntarily file tax payments upon it.
Many classes of labor are indeed taxable because they arise from demonstrable federal privilege and the law provides for such taxation, first and foremost federal employees and federal corporations, but not limited to those. So ensure your labor is not taxable:
(1) TAKE YOUR POWER BACK BY LEARNING THE LAW AND THEN PAYING ONLY WHAT YOU OWE AND NO MORE.
Now, the movement toward correct application of the tax law neatly aligns with both Trump's work toward defanging the IRS and moving toward tariffs, and the movement of peaceful civil disobedience. I don't counsel against PCD but I warn people it's not for everyone. If you cannot find an interpretation of law by which you are comfortable with the tax burden, but you still believe you have a moral imperative not to pay it, you must remain peaceful and civil to retain the moral high ground. You will be classed with agents provocateur who speak patriotically and then torch the rule of law. The language is not to join the disobedient just because the government is evil, instead it is to join the disobedient because one is fully prepared to defend oneself and take the risks and stand on the moral high ground and never to relinquish it by participation in more rebellion than is necessary to maintain one's good conscience. In fact we should recall that there is still risk of such pushback as J6ers received, four years hard prison for no crime. So even if your PCD redline has been crossed by another, don't cross your own conscience but only a specifically defined law that you have formally judged unjust.
(2) TAKE YOUR POWER BACK BY BEING VERY SPECIFIC ABOUT WHAT LAW YOU DISOBEY AND LIMITING YOUR DISOBEDIENCE TO PEACEFUL, CIVIL, HIGH-GROUND APPEAL TO YOUR CONSCIENCE AND YOUR PREPARATION TO SUFFER FOR IT.
Those of lesser means should never fight the tax by blustering complaints as they have no positive effect and can be taken as provocation. They should fight tax they sincerely disbelieve in by exhausting means of appeal and redirection while conscientiously learning the law (notably, extension, and periods of nonfiling for up to about 2 years while maintaining records to permit retroactive filing when one's defense is prepared). Those of greater means are free to temporarily pay the tax that others expect while preparing their research hubs to ensure their affairs are fully in order before announcing a change in practice. (Businessmen have been metaphorically crucified for declaring tax revolts while making technical errors that could be seized upon: The law is not based on one man's opinion but on what Congress and the Court say, and it can take a little consultation and comparison to be absolutely certain. Those who charge for advice are less likely to be accurate than those who speak freely and/or ask for the nominal price of their print media.)
JANUARY IS THE RIGHT TIME FOR PEOPLE TO REALIZE THE FRAUD INHERENT IN THE W-2'S THEY RECEIVE. Now learn the law and use your resources to protect yourself in this window. It's not necessary to act crazy because most everything can be handled administratively and professionally. The reasonable man of means has no need to call attention to a rash movement when the law can be learned in a relatively brief amount of time with relative certainty of its application. I don't speak much of my own preparations but I do answer all questions I can cognize.