Friend this explains alot. This explains why Yeshua told the Pharisees that unles they ate his flesh and drank of his blood they would in no wise see the Kingdom of God (Yahweh). He was calling them out to their faces. He knew what they were guilty of so he called them out and put them on the spot. They felt threatened by Christ. Kind of the same way (And I am in no way shape or form comparing Christ with anybody just noticing the body language and psycology of one who is guilty) The left acts toward Orange man. I knew alot of this, but when we get into the sacrificing of children I never really wanted to pay attention. A rabbit hole I didn't want to go down per sey. So the lamb was the youth of the flock and Christ was the unspotted unblemished lamb which in Jewish tradition (when there is a temple) the passover lamb would be the one unblemmished lamb. So this is suggesting that they used a Chistian Child not to sacrifice to YHWH, but as a sacrifice to their Babylonian god Moloch. Makes me want to take a dive into the Talmud except I cannot read moddern Hebrew let alone ancient Hebrew. I can make coffee. Thats the only brew I do. No alcahol anymore. Life in recovery is Good Praise God Jesus Christ! So, I gotta figure out how the Jesuits fit into this. Rostschild was behind it all either way. He (The Family name, of Which I'm beginning to think is the AntiChrist and AI will be his image that is given the power to speak, yet who is the prophet? only time will tell all) was the reason all (Babylonian Secret Societies) formed throughout history.
Thank you for this so interesting post.
not sure, but it really seems like the image of the beast will be AI. It was given power to speak. Things are progressing quickly. I remember as a kid having to adjust the rabbit ears that had tin foil wrapped around them just to get the football game to come in better. Now with the tv's we have' I don't know how we were ever able to see the football back then, let alone the players. Technology is rapidly getting faster. The bible talks about a time when Iron and Myre clay are mixed. When Humans are mixed with metal is how i see this. So transhumanism is right around the corner and I can now see how that would be possible where 20 years ago it seemed like just imagination running wild. We will see.
I agree. Revelation says the second beast teaches man how to make the image of the antichrist for man to worship. AI be teaching man stuff already. Methinks artificial intelligence ain't artificial.
People, Mostly those that have been brainwashed into believing (due to the baptist bible seminary culture in America since 1909) in a pretribulation rapture, will argue to the death with me about. what scripture actually says about eschatological issues. The main one is the rapture, and then theres the 7 years of spooky tribulation. All I have to say is that C.I. Scofield and John Nelson Darby were heretics that got their theology from a young girl who had a dream during a fever filled dream. Look into the history of the doctorine and you'll see that I am correct. Though, the only way you can see it is if first, you are open minded laying aside everything you have ever been TAUGHT to believe and two, willing to study analytically, the scriptures and let scripture interpret scripture. There is a timeline that is layed out numerous times, even by Yeshua himself. No I am not a dispensationalist, but there is a sequence of events that must take place in the last days that is repeated over and over in the bible. I also believe that people take too litteraly certain hyperbolic literature that is meant to be deciphered spiritually and not physically. The bible is a spiritual book. God is spirit. The only way to discern The Word (Yeshua) is to know Yeshua. In other words you have to be born again. Anyway, if you ever want to chat about these things and pick my brain, I am an open book. And I try my best to always stay open minded. I also have nothing to hide. There is nothing perfect about I. I am the cheifest of sinners. I've been given a gift by God. I take this gift very serious. I also though, understand the spiritual aspect vs. the physical of scripture and I am always looking to grow. Thank you very much for posting this. As soon as it started I guessed he was hinting towards the Rothschild jesuits. I'm typing this message at 3:11 into the first video. Lets see if I'm right. BTW this is my favorite subject to discuss out of everything I ever coe upon. This is where my conspiracy theorist mind started. THE PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE. It never set right with me and I couldn't ever understand the dichotomies in scripture and why it was so contradictory. Come to find out, it wasn't the Bible that was waring, it was the men in the pulpit that were unlearned and hustling people for wealth and popularity. They themselves were not born again (which is not my place to judge the heart of another) but these were easy to point out as they are supposed to be shepherds. Anyway, enough rambling for me for now. Please come share some input with me. Bye for now. {I WAS INCORRECT. IT WAS THE JEWS AND NOT THE JESUITS. SO WHAT DO THE JESUITS HAVE TO DO AND WHERE DO THEY TIE IN?}. [THAT DARK ENERGY, I'VE ALWAYS WONDERED WHAT WAS IN THE ARC OF THE COVENANT]. HOLY SHIT........THIS WOULD EXPLAIN THE MISSING CHILDREN. BUT MCDONALDS? ME? IVE????????NO PLEASE GOD NO!!!!!
Jesus said continually " WHAT SAITH THE SCRIPTURES" (what the scriptures say is the only thing that matters, when discerning the rapture or anything else) and we have the help of the Holy Spirit, our teacher. (regardless of Schofield or anyone else) I personally believe the scriptures point to pre-tribulation, more so, than mid tribulation or post tribulation. One Example: In day of judgment (Noah's day) God took Noah OVER - In the day of judgment (Sodom and Gomorrah) God took his people OUT - in the day of judgment (the great tribulation) God takes his people UP. As it is written, "Shall the God of all, destroy the righteous with the unrighteous?" (Genesis 18:25) Having said that, it is really a small thing as to (WHEN) (pre - mid - post) tribulation, compared to (regardless of) whether (pre,mid,post) or even for some, not at all "The dead in Christ (SHALL)RISE first, and we that are alive and remain, (SHALL) be caught up to meet the Lord in the air, and we (SHALL) be with him forever more" (1 Thessalonians 4:16) This will happen because it is written, and not one word of God shall fail. We are to comfort one another with these words.(1 Thessalonians 4:18) We will be with the Lord and that's what really matters, when the Rapture takes place is secondary, and fun to debate, but no matter what happens or when "We are kept by His (God's) power" (1 Peter 1:5) "Unless the Lord builds the house, he that builds builds in vain, unless the Lord keeps the city, the watchman watches in vain" (Psalm 127:1) "He ( God) is the author and the finisher of our faith" (Hebrews 12:2) "He that began a good work in us, WILL complete it" (Philippians 1:6) "For I know in whom I have believed, and I am persuaded that He is able to KEEP, that which I have committed to him, unto THAT DAY" (2 Timothy 1:12) This no one can take from (US) all those who really trust Christ to save them"🙏
"Give no offense neither to the Jews nor to the Gentiles nor to the CHURCH OF GOD" (1 Corinthians 10:32) We are all members of one body of Christ, which is the Church of God, thank you for the reminder.
Yes(my fine feathered friend) I said Noah was taken (over) (the waters) The point being the righteous were not destroyed with the ungodly. Noah (taken over). Lot (taken out) . Present day believer (taken up).🙏
Its spiritual fren. When Christ returns The dead in Christ will be risen first, Just as Christ was risen from the grave, And all who remail will be transformed in the blink of an eye. We are at that moment transformed back to the original. Just like Adam was before the curse. We are caught up in the spirit. In other words the veil will be lifted. We will be in our original spirit body not the flesh body. Where the spirit does not die. The catching up in the clouds is hyperbole. In the day and time John wrote this, it was considered "coming in the clouds" was a metephor . When a King would arive to a different kingdom along with his army the movement would cause a huge cloud of dust that was able to be seen afar off because of the size of it. When a King was coming in the cloud it was because you could see the cloud of dust that was stirred up from his army and the horses. When the bible says Christ will be coming in the cloud and we are risen to meet him in that cloud to fight the battle and destroy the enemy, this is the metephor it is speaking of. I know I make it seem simple but it is that simple. Men like Scofield and their reference bibles that tell you how to believe have caused many to take his understanding as fact. The pre trib rapture doctorine is only a couple hundred years old. Its very new. There is a timeline that is repeted over and over and over again in scripture that has been ignored for some reason and I belive it is because the eney wants it to be ignored. He wants people to be unprepared so that when the time comes to take the mark people will line up for it. They will take it becuse they believe there is no way it can be the mark because that dosnt take place until after the pre trib rapture. Satans plan is working.
I'm hoping you will not be offended, being open-minded. "We will be transformed back to the original like Adam" (you say) I'm sorry, but not so: Adam was created (in the garden) We are created (in Christ Jesus). Adam was created innocent (and he fell), We are created in righteousness (with the very righteousness of God himself) and we will not fall, for as it is written "We are kept by his power" Is it not a great mistake, to interpret scriptures, by what we think, they thought, in times past instead of what scripture actually says? History's tradition does not override scripture. You say that being caught up in the air is a metaphor? However the witness of God's word refutes that. FIRST WITNESS: 2Kings 2:11 says "Elijah went up by a whirlwind INTO HEAVEN" Elijah was taken up into heaven literally, and is not a metaphor. SECOND WITNESS and most importantly concerning this subject: (Acts 1:11) "When Jesus had spoken, while they beheld him, Jesus was taken up and a cloud received him out of their sight, and while they looked steadfastly (TOWARDS HEAVEN) as Jesus (WENT UP), behold two men standing in white apparel; which also said, you men of Galilee, why stand you ( GAZING UP INTO HEAVEN) this (SAME JESUS), which is taken up from you (INTO HEAVEN) shall also come back (IN LIKE FASHION) (as you have seen) Him go into heaven" I'm sorry my friend, but you would have to hire a lawyer to help you misunderstand that verse. That verse clearly teaches us that Jesus went up into heaven (literally, not figuratively) as they watched and Jesus disappeared into the clouds, (with them staring into the heavens), and the two angels that were there said, Christ will come back in like fashion(figuratively) (exactly like he left) in the air, not in a cloud of dust on on Earth. THIRD WITNESS: 1st Thessalonians 4:17 "We who are still alive and remain will be caught up together with them, in the clouds to meet the Lord (IN THE AIR)" not in a cloud of dust on the Earth. These are just a few things, there's just too much, to put down in a post regarding, the Rapture and tribulation, I'll leave you with a few things to consider, study revelation, and you will notice from Revelation 4:1, the church (the bride of Christ) is never mentioned again as being on the Earth. After Revelation 4:1 the Church of God is only mentioned as being in heaven. Also notice: In Revelation 19:7 the (BRIDE OF CHRIST) at the marriage of the Lamb, is granted by Christ to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white, for the linen is the righteousness of the Saints" The marriage of the Lamb takes place, in heaven and you are going to have a hard time and fitting it into taking place on the Earth. See also: Ephesians 5:27 Revelations 19:7 revelation 21:2 2nd Corinthians 11:2. I hope you find this as good food for thought. May God bless you, may God keep you, may God make his face shine upon you, in Jesus name. Amen.
...it wasn't the Bible that was waring, it was the men in the pulpit that were unlearned and hustling people for wealth and popularity.
Which bible (translation) ?
"For we wrestle not against flesh and [t]blood, but against [u]principalities, against powers, and against the worldly governors, the princes of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness, which are in the high places." --Ephesians 6 : 12 --1599 Geneva
I am the cheifest of sinners.
We all fight the same battles eternally , one decision at a time.
"Neither shall men say, Lo here, or lo there: for behold, the kingdom of God is within you." ---Luke 17 : 21 -- 1599 Geneva
Any and all translations.The point I was making is that the Scofield study bible has created this false doctorine of a pre tribulation rapture and Preachers preach it, but when you read it in the bible it seems contadictory. Because it is if you are creating a doctorine that just isn't there. And yes, I am a sinner saved by Grace. Tho the kingdom of Heaven is within, in that quiet secret place, there is still only one way to salvation and it is not of works. It is a beleif and the spirit has a way of humbling a man. When I quote the Apostle Paul by saying, "I am the Chiefest of Sinners," I am humbling myself. I want no credit or attention. I wish for edification. The focal point shall always be on my creator Jesus Christ the Son of the LIving God. He said, "I and my Father are the same, If you know my Father than you would know me." (paraphrasing) There is much more to this world than what our finite human minds can see or even know. Ahhh the mystery that one day will be made known! Thank you for your questions fren.
100% whenever there seems to be a contradiction in the scriptures, I have asked God to show me by His Holy Spirit, what I am not understanding or have misunderstood, "For how can two walk together except they be agreed" (Amos 3:3) If God's word contradicts itself how can God's word be walking together? (BE ONE) and if there is even (one) contradiction, how would God's people be able to trust any of the rest? Every time I have asked God to show me by his Holy Spirit what I'm not understanding, without fail,God has showed me, what I have not understood or have misunderstood, fulfilling the promise God gave to (us) in (James 1:5) "If (any) of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives liberally, without fault finding, and it (SHALL) be given him) 🙏
Fully agree with this one too. I am always impressed when I read a comment like this because I think "I bet this guy and I would be friends if we knew one another." Thank you.
John literally shows us the pre-trib rapture happening to him (as part of the church) in Revelation. How is it a contradiction?
I’m curious how a belief in pre-trib rapture is a bad thing? It does not affect one’s salvation in any way. If anything it spurs the believer to action keeping busy about The Father’s work because it can happen at any time. There are no eschatological pre-qualifiers for the rapture.
Unlike the 2nd advent that has specific events that have to take place before He comes back.
I’m curious how a belief in pre-trib rapture is a bad thing?
If the “rapture”, or rather, going to meet Yeshua in the clouds, is post- or mid- tribulation, anyone waiting on a pre-trib rapture to let us skip the hard parts is going to be woefully underprepared.
Does pre-trib mean we should be getting ready spiritually? Sure. So does the fact that we could die at any time. Only the other two offer a suggestion of being prepared otherwise. The meek inheriting the earth also seems to imply that we are still here afterward.
Basically, there’s neither functional nor spiritual value in believing in a pre-trib rapture other than comfort. If it happens, great! I can’t say it’s certainly false. If it doesn’t happen, however….
I’ve been thinking about your reply and I don’t it’s rooted the right premise. Christians who are watching and waiting on the Lord’s appearance shouldn’t be thought of as sitting on their hands unprepared for what might come. I feel it’s the opposite. If your focus is on Jesus and his teachings then you should be wise as a viper. Always hoping for the best but maintaining your armor of God to be prepared for the worst.
It would go against Jesus’ teachings to not be prepared for tribulation, even Jacob’s trouble, the great tribulation. A Christian’s core goal is to endure and occupy with love until His arrival. It’s hard for me to fathom a true believer being caught off guard. For if it were possible, even the elect would be deceived.
I don’t think your argument stands. There is no harm whatsoever believing in pre-trib for the faithful. On the contrary it is hope and anticipation that heals and sustains us.
I agree with all the things you have pointed out that we should do.
If those things are held, and fastly, then there is no benefit to believing in any of the three (pre/mid/post), and any such efforts would be best suited as exploring hypotheticals, while attending more focus on those things you have pointed out:
Hope for the best
Prepare for the worst, both physically and spiritually
Be prepared for tribulation
Have practiced endurance
Always be on guard
Do not sit on your hands unprepared
If those things are kept, then any firm position on rapture becomes irrelevant. If we are caught up, we are caught up, and if not, we are prepared as best as we can be.
Where my concern comes in is with those who are weaker in faith, for whom, really either position as dogma could become a stumbling block. The weak in faith may put his hopes into being caught up to avoid tribulation, though the servant is not greater than the master, but also the weak in faith may become discouraged by being aggressively initiated through offering of tribulation as reward for faithfulness.
It seems to me that the best course is to teach the truth, which is that we don’t know precisely how it will play out, then focus on being ready for all situations, and through which actions such should be done, of which I believe your list is a good one.
I may be wrong, but this is effectively a tactical discussion toward what actions might promote the best outcome, and not so much one of being right or wrong on dogma. My dogmatic stance is “I dunno! One of them, surely.”
I would like to add that the timeline on which these things would likely happen is not around Christmas, Easter, or some random time where “season” is meant in a generic “chaos/uncertainty abounds” sense, but likely would be a season of one of the biblical feasts (of Exodus/Deut - “for all your generations”), which do have a history of being tied to prophetic events unfolding.
Not a bad thing. I want to make sure everyone in this thread understands I mean absolutly no division. Sometimes this subject can cause people to get argumentitive and I do not wish that in any way whatsoever. The Gosple of Grace is the only thing I will argue to my death. Thats what matters most. Jesus was the Creator God in human flesh whos blood was shed as the final sacrifice for all who would believe and 3 days after his body was layed to rest in the tomb, he was seen by hundreds of people walking and talking just like you and I. He was raised from the Dead. Now as far as eschotology goes, I can prove in scripture how the Calling up (rapture) happens after tribulation just befor God pours out his wrath upon the earth. That ONE day where the dead in Christ are risen, The Day of the Lord takes place, The Day Christ returns and Gathers his Elect (The Church {Spiritual Israel} not the Jews) To meet him in the Clouds (not the clouds in the sky but the cloud of dust as an army rushing across the sandy desert to battle) to destroy the enemy and pour out the wrath of God upon all that Rejected him. There is timeline that is repeted multiple times in scripture that tells us exatly the season. No man will know the day or the hour, not even Christ himself, but the Father in Heaven, But he did promise us that we would know the season that we would be prepared as it approaches and that specific events must take place before that day comes. Christ himself gave the timeline. And that timeline was prophesied thousands of years before Christ walked on earth in the Flesh. You can believe however you want, but I dont want people to get caught unawares because they believe they will escape tribulation therefore not being preparted to edure that tribulation until the end.
Word. I don’t intend any division either (though perhaps am unintentionally so on occasion), just chewing on tactics - as even the apostles did in Acts (15:2 - there was no small disputation with them).
They crucified Christ for it And Crucified Peter upsidedown for it and Paul was absolooply tormented and well we all know what happened to John. They hated their speech and no matter how nice they were about it, when you tell someone it is a sin to be a fag then they gonna get offended cause you know they like diddling. IYKYK
sorry fren but I have to disagree with you. There is nothing in scripture that tells us we will escape Tribulation. Now the wrath of God, thats a different story. We will escape that. But the tribulation that Satan pours out on the Church, we in no way will escape that. He that endures to the end shall be saved.
You are correct because tribulations occur daily. That’s why I distinguished it by saying Great Tribulation as mentioned in Jeremiah 30:7. Believe what you want. It’s not a matter of salvation, so I’m not try to push some false doctrine. Some of us have eyes to see and ears to hear deeper revelations. The Bible has many layers of wisdom and revelation.
Reread Revelation and key into John’s experience. What is spoken of as what was, what is, and what shall be. Pay close attention to where he is and what he is doing when each category of those things are revealed to him. It’s pretty clear if you ask me that he experienced the pretribulation rapture. Not all agree and that’s cool. A lot of the purpose for Jesus’ 1st advent was missed by followers and Pharisee alike even though all of them knew the Old Testament better than any of us. It was central to their lives. These people had all the verses prophesying His coming yet they did not comprehend, fully, until Paul revealed the mysteries and understanding revealed to him by Christ.
There are many other books and verses that describe a similar pretrib experience for all believers but not all believers are in tune with them.
Not hear to argue with anyone just share my understanding. Look through my comments. I recently laid out all my biblical references and notes on the subject. It took two posts and I still left some out. The user I was responding to said they didn’t have time to read through all my suppositions. There you have it. That is the level of attention most people give to understanding things yet they still want to come off as some kind of authority. I imagine their Bible studies are similar.
It’s all how deep you’re willing to go because the wisdom of Yahweh is unknowable. We can only hope to scratch the surface. Numbers 6:24-26
Pretrib is a relativly new doctorine and it did not come around until the Scofield reference bible came out. Joh Darby was a big pusher of the pretrib rapture but what happened was a 15 year old girl had a bad fever and hallucinated and what she saw in her dream was taken as fact. Pre trib is not in the Bible. You have no idea how many times I have read the Revelation of Christ written by the Apostle John while exiled on the Isle of Patmos. Read Christs words in Matthew 24 and please don't say that he was speaking to the Jews.
Friend this explains alot. This explains why Yeshua told the Pharisees that unles they ate his flesh and drank of his blood they would in no wise see the Kingdom of God (Yahweh). He was calling them out to their faces. He knew what they were guilty of so he called them out and put them on the spot. They felt threatened by Christ. Kind of the same way (And I am in no way shape or form comparing Christ with anybody just noticing the body language and psycology of one who is guilty) The left acts toward Orange man. I knew alot of this, but when we get into the sacrificing of children I never really wanted to pay attention. A rabbit hole I didn't want to go down per sey. So the lamb was the youth of the flock and Christ was the unspotted unblemished lamb which in Jewish tradition (when there is a temple) the passover lamb would be the one unblemmished lamb. So this is suggesting that they used a Chistian Child not to sacrifice to YHWH, but as a sacrifice to their Babylonian god Moloch. Makes me want to take a dive into the Talmud except I cannot read moddern Hebrew let alone ancient Hebrew. I can make coffee. Thats the only brew I do. No alcahol anymore. Life in recovery is Good Praise God Jesus Christ! So, I gotta figure out how the Jesuits fit into this. Rostschild was behind it all either way. He (The Family name, of Which I'm beginning to think is the AntiChrist and AI will be his image that is given the power to speak, yet who is the prophet? only time will tell all) was the reason all (Babylonian Secret Societies) formed throughout history. Thank you for this so interesting post.
Very well said. Your analysis makes perfect sense to me and I fully agree. Thanks.
I wonder if the prophet is AI
not sure, but it really seems like the image of the beast will be AI. It was given power to speak. Things are progressing quickly. I remember as a kid having to adjust the rabbit ears that had tin foil wrapped around them just to get the football game to come in better. Now with the tv's we have' I don't know how we were ever able to see the football back then, let alone the players. Technology is rapidly getting faster. The bible talks about a time when Iron and Myre clay are mixed. When Humans are mixed with metal is how i see this. So transhumanism is right around the corner and I can now see how that would be possible where 20 years ago it seemed like just imagination running wild. We will see.
I agree. Revelation says the second beast teaches man how to make the image of the antichrist for man to worship. AI be teaching man stuff already. Methinks artificial intelligence ain't artificial.
I'm trying to listen, homey need to up his microphone volume tho. Kek.
Agreed.
People, Mostly those that have been brainwashed into believing (due to the baptist bible seminary culture in America since 1909) in a pretribulation rapture, will argue to the death with me about. what scripture actually says about eschatological issues. The main one is the rapture, and then theres the 7 years of spooky tribulation. All I have to say is that C.I. Scofield and John Nelson Darby were heretics that got their theology from a young girl who had a dream during a fever filled dream. Look into the history of the doctorine and you'll see that I am correct. Though, the only way you can see it is if first, you are open minded laying aside everything you have ever been TAUGHT to believe and two, willing to study analytically, the scriptures and let scripture interpret scripture. There is a timeline that is layed out numerous times, even by Yeshua himself. No I am not a dispensationalist, but there is a sequence of events that must take place in the last days that is repeated over and over in the bible. I also believe that people take too litteraly certain hyperbolic literature that is meant to be deciphered spiritually and not physically. The bible is a spiritual book. God is spirit. The only way to discern The Word (Yeshua) is to know Yeshua. In other words you have to be born again. Anyway, if you ever want to chat about these things and pick my brain, I am an open book. And I try my best to always stay open minded. I also have nothing to hide. There is nothing perfect about I. I am the cheifest of sinners. I've been given a gift by God. I take this gift very serious. I also though, understand the spiritual aspect vs. the physical of scripture and I am always looking to grow. Thank you very much for posting this. As soon as it started I guessed he was hinting towards the Rothschild jesuits. I'm typing this message at 3:11 into the first video. Lets see if I'm right. BTW this is my favorite subject to discuss out of everything I ever coe upon. This is where my conspiracy theorist mind started. THE PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE. It never set right with me and I couldn't ever understand the dichotomies in scripture and why it was so contradictory. Come to find out, it wasn't the Bible that was waring, it was the men in the pulpit that were unlearned and hustling people for wealth and popularity. They themselves were not born again (which is not my place to judge the heart of another) but these were easy to point out as they are supposed to be shepherds. Anyway, enough rambling for me for now. Please come share some input with me. Bye for now. {I WAS INCORRECT. IT WAS THE JEWS AND NOT THE JESUITS. SO WHAT DO THE JESUITS HAVE TO DO AND WHERE DO THEY TIE IN?}. [THAT DARK ENERGY, I'VE ALWAYS WONDERED WHAT WAS IN THE ARC OF THE COVENANT]. HOLY SHIT........THIS WOULD EXPLAIN THE MISSING CHILDREN. BUT MCDONALDS? ME? IVE????????NO PLEASE GOD NO!!!!!
Jesus said continually " WHAT SAITH THE SCRIPTURES" (what the scriptures say is the only thing that matters, when discerning the rapture or anything else) and we have the help of the Holy Spirit, our teacher. (regardless of Schofield or anyone else) I personally believe the scriptures point to pre-tribulation, more so, than mid tribulation or post tribulation. One Example: In day of judgment (Noah's day) God took Noah OVER - In the day of judgment (Sodom and Gomorrah) God took his people OUT - in the day of judgment (the great tribulation) God takes his people UP. As it is written, "Shall the God of all, destroy the righteous with the unrighteous?" (Genesis 18:25) Having said that, it is really a small thing as to (WHEN) (pre - mid - post) tribulation, compared to (regardless of) whether (pre,mid,post) or even for some, not at all "The dead in Christ (SHALL)RISE first, and we that are alive and remain, (SHALL) be caught up to meet the Lord in the air, and we (SHALL) be with him forever more" (1 Thessalonians 4:16) This will happen because it is written, and not one word of God shall fail. We are to comfort one another with these words.(1 Thessalonians 4:18) We will be with the Lord and that's what really matters, when the Rapture takes place is secondary, and fun to debate, but no matter what happens or when "We are kept by His (God's) power" (1 Peter 1:5) "Unless the Lord builds the house, he that builds builds in vain, unless the Lord keeps the city, the watchman watches in vain" (Psalm 127:1) "He ( God) is the author and the finisher of our faith" (Hebrews 12:2) "He that began a good work in us, WILL complete it" (Philippians 1:6) "For I know in whom I have believed, and I am persuaded that He is able to KEEP, that which I have committed to him, unto THAT DAY" (2 Timothy 1:12) This no one can take from (US) all those who really trust Christ to save them"🙏
Amen says the church.
"Give no offense neither to the Jews nor to the Gentiles nor to the CHURCH OF GOD" (1 Corinthians 10:32) We are all members of one body of Christ, which is the Church of God, thank you for the reminder.
NOAH WAS LEFT BEHIND NOT TAKEN. EVERYONE ON THE PLANET WAS TAKEN BY THE FLOOD BUT NOAH AND HIS WIFE, CHILDREN, AND THEIR WIVES WERE LEFT BEHIND.
Yes(my fine feathered friend) I said Noah was taken (over) (the waters) The point being the righteous were not destroyed with the ungodly. Noah (taken over). Lot (taken out) . Present day believer (taken up).🙏
Its spiritual fren. When Christ returns The dead in Christ will be risen first, Just as Christ was risen from the grave, And all who remail will be transformed in the blink of an eye. We are at that moment transformed back to the original. Just like Adam was before the curse. We are caught up in the spirit. In other words the veil will be lifted. We will be in our original spirit body not the flesh body. Where the spirit does not die. The catching up in the clouds is hyperbole. In the day and time John wrote this, it was considered "coming in the clouds" was a metephor . When a King would arive to a different kingdom along with his army the movement would cause a huge cloud of dust that was able to be seen afar off because of the size of it. When a King was coming in the cloud it was because you could see the cloud of dust that was stirred up from his army and the horses. When the bible says Christ will be coming in the cloud and we are risen to meet him in that cloud to fight the battle and destroy the enemy, this is the metephor it is speaking of. I know I make it seem simple but it is that simple. Men like Scofield and their reference bibles that tell you how to believe have caused many to take his understanding as fact. The pre trib rapture doctorine is only a couple hundred years old. Its very new. There is a timeline that is repeted over and over and over again in scripture that has been ignored for some reason and I belive it is because the eney wants it to be ignored. He wants people to be unprepared so that when the time comes to take the mark people will line up for it. They will take it becuse they believe there is no way it can be the mark because that dosnt take place until after the pre trib rapture. Satans plan is working.
I'm hoping you will not be offended, being open-minded. "We will be transformed back to the original like Adam" (you say) I'm sorry, but not so: Adam was created (in the garden) We are created (in Christ Jesus). Adam was created innocent (and he fell), We are created in righteousness (with the very righteousness of God himself) and we will not fall, for as it is written "We are kept by his power" Is it not a great mistake, to interpret scriptures, by what we think, they thought, in times past instead of what scripture actually says? History's tradition does not override scripture. You say that being caught up in the air is a metaphor? However the witness of God's word refutes that. FIRST WITNESS: 2Kings 2:11 says "Elijah went up by a whirlwind INTO HEAVEN" Elijah was taken up into heaven literally, and is not a metaphor. SECOND WITNESS and most importantly concerning this subject: (Acts 1:11) "When Jesus had spoken, while they beheld him, Jesus was taken up and a cloud received him out of their sight, and while they looked steadfastly (TOWARDS HEAVEN) as Jesus (WENT UP), behold two men standing in white apparel; which also said, you men of Galilee, why stand you ( GAZING UP INTO HEAVEN) this (SAME JESUS), which is taken up from you (INTO HEAVEN) shall also come back (IN LIKE FASHION) (as you have seen) Him go into heaven" I'm sorry my friend, but you would have to hire a lawyer to help you misunderstand that verse. That verse clearly teaches us that Jesus went up into heaven (literally, not figuratively) as they watched and Jesus disappeared into the clouds, (with them staring into the heavens), and the two angels that were there said, Christ will come back in like fashion(figuratively) (exactly like he left) in the air, not in a cloud of dust on on Earth. THIRD WITNESS: 1st Thessalonians 4:17 "We who are still alive and remain will be caught up together with them, in the clouds to meet the Lord (IN THE AIR)" not in a cloud of dust on the Earth. These are just a few things, there's just too much, to put down in a post regarding, the Rapture and tribulation, I'll leave you with a few things to consider, study revelation, and you will notice from Revelation 4:1, the church (the bride of Christ) is never mentioned again as being on the Earth. After Revelation 4:1 the Church of God is only mentioned as being in heaven. Also notice: In Revelation 19:7 the (BRIDE OF CHRIST) at the marriage of the Lamb, is granted by Christ to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white, for the linen is the righteousness of the Saints" The marriage of the Lamb takes place, in heaven and you are going to have a hard time and fitting it into taking place on the Earth. See also: Ephesians 5:27 Revelations 19:7 revelation 21:2 2nd Corinthians 11:2. I hope you find this as good food for thought. May God bless you, may God keep you, may God make his face shine upon you, in Jesus name. Amen.
Thank you, I will be studying. God Bless you.
Which bible (translation) ?
"For we wrestle not against flesh and [t]blood, but against [u]principalities, against powers, and against the worldly governors, the princes of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness, which are in the high places." --Ephesians 6 : 12 --1599 Geneva
We all fight the same battles eternally , one decision at a time.
"Neither shall men say, Lo here, or lo there: for behold, the kingdom of God is within you." ---Luke 17 : 21 -- 1599 Geneva
Any and all translations.The point I was making is that the Scofield study bible has created this false doctorine of a pre tribulation rapture and Preachers preach it, but when you read it in the bible it seems contadictory. Because it is if you are creating a doctorine that just isn't there. And yes, I am a sinner saved by Grace. Tho the kingdom of Heaven is within, in that quiet secret place, there is still only one way to salvation and it is not of works. It is a beleif and the spirit has a way of humbling a man. When I quote the Apostle Paul by saying, "I am the Chiefest of Sinners," I am humbling myself. I want no credit or attention. I wish for edification. The focal point shall always be on my creator Jesus Christ the Son of the LIving God. He said, "I and my Father are the same, If you know my Father than you would know me." (paraphrasing) There is much more to this world than what our finite human minds can see or even know. Ahhh the mystery that one day will be made known! Thank you for your questions fren.
"I AM THAT I AM."
100% whenever there seems to be a contradiction in the scriptures, I have asked God to show me by His Holy Spirit, what I am not understanding or have misunderstood, "For how can two walk together except they be agreed" (Amos 3:3) If God's word contradicts itself how can God's word be walking together? (BE ONE) and if there is even (one) contradiction, how would God's people be able to trust any of the rest? Every time I have asked God to show me by his Holy Spirit what I'm not understanding, without fail,God has showed me, what I have not understood or have misunderstood, fulfilling the promise God gave to (us) in (James 1:5) "If (any) of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives liberally, without fault finding, and it (SHALL) be given him) 🙏
Correct. There are no contradictions. The Bible always answers itself. You must rightly divide the word of truth.
2 Timothy 2:15 - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
I never said it was. I said it was in the past.
Fully agree with this one too. I am always impressed when I read a comment like this because I think "I bet this guy and I would be friends if we knew one another." Thank you.
John literally shows us the pre-trib rapture happening to him (as part of the church) in Revelation. How is it a contradiction?
I’m curious how a belief in pre-trib rapture is a bad thing? It does not affect one’s salvation in any way. If anything it spurs the believer to action keeping busy about The Father’s work because it can happen at any time. There are no eschatological pre-qualifiers for the rapture.
Unlike the 2nd advent that has specific events that have to take place before He comes back.
If the “rapture”, or rather, going to meet Yeshua in the clouds, is post- or mid- tribulation, anyone waiting on a pre-trib rapture to let us skip the hard parts is going to be woefully underprepared.
Does pre-trib mean we should be getting ready spiritually? Sure. So does the fact that we could die at any time. Only the other two offer a suggestion of being prepared otherwise. The meek inheriting the earth also seems to imply that we are still here afterward.
Basically, there’s neither functional nor spiritual value in believing in a pre-trib rapture other than comfort. If it happens, great! I can’t say it’s certainly false. If it doesn’t happen, however….
I’ve been thinking about your reply and I don’t it’s rooted the right premise. Christians who are watching and waiting on the Lord’s appearance shouldn’t be thought of as sitting on their hands unprepared for what might come. I feel it’s the opposite. If your focus is on Jesus and his teachings then you should be wise as a viper. Always hoping for the best but maintaining your armor of God to be prepared for the worst.
It would go against Jesus’ teachings to not be prepared for tribulation, even Jacob’s trouble, the great tribulation. A Christian’s core goal is to endure and occupy with love until His arrival. It’s hard for me to fathom a true believer being caught off guard. For if it were possible, even the elect would be deceived.
I don’t think your argument stands. There is no harm whatsoever believing in pre-trib for the faithful. On the contrary it is hope and anticipation that heals and sustains us.
Edit: spelling.
I agree with all the things you have pointed out that we should do.
If those things are held, and fastly, then there is no benefit to believing in any of the three (pre/mid/post), and any such efforts would be best suited as exploring hypotheticals, while attending more focus on those things you have pointed out:
If those things are kept, then any firm position on rapture becomes irrelevant. If we are caught up, we are caught up, and if not, we are prepared as best as we can be.
Where my concern comes in is with those who are weaker in faith, for whom, really either position as dogma could become a stumbling block. The weak in faith may put his hopes into being caught up to avoid tribulation, though the servant is not greater than the master, but also the weak in faith may become discouraged by being aggressively initiated through offering of tribulation as reward for faithfulness.
It seems to me that the best course is to teach the truth, which is that we don’t know precisely how it will play out, then focus on being ready for all situations, and through which actions such should be done, of which I believe your list is a good one.
I may be wrong, but this is effectively a tactical discussion toward what actions might promote the best outcome, and not so much one of being right or wrong on dogma. My dogmatic stance is “I dunno! One of them, surely.”
I would like to add that the timeline on which these things would likely happen is not around Christmas, Easter, or some random time where “season” is meant in a generic “chaos/uncertainty abounds” sense, but likely would be a season of one of the biblical feasts (of Exodus/Deut - “for all your generations”), which do have a history of being tied to prophetic events unfolding.
Excellent Comment Fren!
Not a bad thing. I want to make sure everyone in this thread understands I mean absolutly no division. Sometimes this subject can cause people to get argumentitive and I do not wish that in any way whatsoever. The Gosple of Grace is the only thing I will argue to my death. Thats what matters most. Jesus was the Creator God in human flesh whos blood was shed as the final sacrifice for all who would believe and 3 days after his body was layed to rest in the tomb, he was seen by hundreds of people walking and talking just like you and I. He was raised from the Dead. Now as far as eschotology goes, I can prove in scripture how the Calling up (rapture) happens after tribulation just befor God pours out his wrath upon the earth. That ONE day where the dead in Christ are risen, The Day of the Lord takes place, The Day Christ returns and Gathers his Elect (The Church {Spiritual Israel} not the Jews) To meet him in the Clouds (not the clouds in the sky but the cloud of dust as an army rushing across the sandy desert to battle) to destroy the enemy and pour out the wrath of God upon all that Rejected him. There is timeline that is repeted multiple times in scripture that tells us exatly the season. No man will know the day or the hour, not even Christ himself, but the Father in Heaven, But he did promise us that we would know the season that we would be prepared as it approaches and that specific events must take place before that day comes. Christ himself gave the timeline. And that timeline was prophesied thousands of years before Christ walked on earth in the Flesh. You can believe however you want, but I dont want people to get caught unawares because they believe they will escape tribulation therefore not being preparted to edure that tribulation until the end.
Word. I don’t intend any division either (though perhaps am unintentionally so on occasion), just chewing on tactics - as even the apostles did in Acts (15:2 - there was no small disputation with them).
They crucified Christ for it And Crucified Peter upsidedown for it and Paul was absolooply tormented and well we all know what happened to John. They hated their speech and no matter how nice they were about it, when you tell someone it is a sin to be a fag then they gonna get offended cause you know they like diddling. IYKYK
sorry fren but I have to disagree with you. There is nothing in scripture that tells us we will escape Tribulation. Now the wrath of God, thats a different story. We will escape that. But the tribulation that Satan pours out on the Church, we in no way will escape that. He that endures to the end shall be saved.
You are correct because tribulations occur daily. That’s why I distinguished it by saying Great Tribulation as mentioned in Jeremiah 30:7. Believe what you want. It’s not a matter of salvation, so I’m not try to push some false doctrine. Some of us have eyes to see and ears to hear deeper revelations. The Bible has many layers of wisdom and revelation.
Reread Revelation and key into John’s experience. What is spoken of as what was, what is, and what shall be. Pay close attention to where he is and what he is doing when each category of those things are revealed to him. It’s pretty clear if you ask me that he experienced the pretribulation rapture. Not all agree and that’s cool. A lot of the purpose for Jesus’ 1st advent was missed by followers and Pharisee alike even though all of them knew the Old Testament better than any of us. It was central to their lives. These people had all the verses prophesying His coming yet they did not comprehend, fully, until Paul revealed the mysteries and understanding revealed to him by Christ.
There are many other books and verses that describe a similar pretrib experience for all believers but not all believers are in tune with them.
Not hear to argue with anyone just share my understanding. Look through my comments. I recently laid out all my biblical references and notes on the subject. It took two posts and I still left some out. The user I was responding to said they didn’t have time to read through all my suppositions. There you have it. That is the level of attention most people give to understanding things yet they still want to come off as some kind of authority. I imagine their Bible studies are similar.
It’s all how deep you’re willing to go because the wisdom of Yahweh is unknowable. We can only hope to scratch the surface. Numbers 6:24-26
Pretrib is a relativly new doctorine and it did not come around until the Scofield reference bible came out. Joh Darby was a big pusher of the pretrib rapture but what happened was a 15 year old girl had a bad fever and hallucinated and what she saw in her dream was taken as fact. Pre trib is not in the Bible. You have no idea how many times I have read the Revelation of Christ written by the Apostle John while exiled on the Isle of Patmos. Read Christs words in Matthew 24 and please don't say that he was speaking to the Jews.
Is this why DJT said, “we will save Israel for last!”
If I may simply point out that the image in this video is Baphomet, not Moloch, and the rest of the video is just as accurate on a lot of points.
Yes, there is a mafia among a certain people.
That “Rabbi Finkelstein” audio clip is almost certainly fake.
There may in fact be groups that do some of those accusations, but it is not universal.
Go look deeper into the English expulsion. It’s very interesting.
The goal shouldn’t be just laying down accusations, but trying to figure out what the truth is.
Jonathan Greenblatt does bear an uncanny resemblance to Nosferatu.