For some strange reason this issue comes up a lot in my dealings with fellow Christians, mostly IRL, but also online. And more than is necessary has derailed a fruitful conversation and left it dead in the water, almost exclusively when the other Christian is a hardline believer in Saturday being the Sabbath, and Sunday being such a perversion that it makes them agitated to the point of disengaging.
I'm a relatively new Christian, always seeking to learn more from others regardless of their beliefs, and I find it baffling how often this topic shuts down folks who are typically among the most Bible literate I engage with. I've seen it deflect from great conversations too often. It's just weird to me.
I did some basic research on this, and AFAIK God never handed down a stone tablet establishing a calender, and the Hebrew calender (and early Roman calender) coincided with the earlier Babylonian calender, and the young Christian church began celebrating Sunday to honor the resurrection, and later the Roman Constantine calender established Sunday as the 7th day. Am I missing something? Why do some find it so overwhelmingly necessary to, seemingly obstenately, observe Saturday Sabbath, and WHY does it so often happen to cause these people to get so angry to the point of distraction? Why is following the Constantine calender a perversion, but not the arbitrary Hebrew calendar?
I realize this is just my experience, but it's an overwhelming experience and has often frustrated me. I do not mean disrespect, but I believe the day is not as important as the ceremony being celebrated with the body of Christ and I would like ammunition to evaluate situation better, and frankly argue against it. Without exception, I haven't met a person whose spiritual life has been improved by this belief; it has kept all of them away from church participation as a result. And honestly, their outward spirits reflect that.
Thanks, I'll check back after work in 12 hours, lol.
Apologies for typos and grammar. I'm bad at phones.
EDIT: I ask here respectfully as honestly, some GREAT Christian practitioners and scholars are here. It's a blessing!
I don’t think God cares what day it is, just that it is remembered and kept holy. I, myself tend to split things up. I power down on Saturday. Then on Sunday it is church and football.
Thanks for the reply, that's what I feel too. Waiting on the deep occult researchers to explain the Babylonian angle. 😅
OKAY :-) So you want me to tell you that Christmas is Babylonian fertility ritual and the tree is phallic symbol (Revelation 11 for more Christmas secrets). And you want me to tell you that Jesus means son of/hail Zeus and is also the name of a pagan fish god. When "Jesus" says "the son of man" in our translation of the "Bible" it is a pagan/Roman code for him being the sun god and that is why we are supposed to worship him on Sunday?
Don't tempt me with a good time, KEK
Pro tip: worship the real Christ who is King of Kings and Lord of Lords on both Sunday and Saturday and then everyone wins (Or you could just worship him everday...kek. What a concept right?).
P.S. Saturday=Saturn=Satan if you wanna go down that road....
Came to say this. Why should God care? Just take a day out of seven or less to be about higher consciousness.
Paul just thought it should be a day a week not one in particular.
Here is a pretty simple explanation. I suspect you are wanting to dive deeper than this though.
My opinion on the matter is, it's not worth arguing over. To some people it might be, for me it is not. As Christians, we are Brothers in Christ and that is the part that matters. I really don't care what denomination a person claims, we all follow the same God and Jesus is our Lord and Savior. That is the important part.
Sabbath, in Old Testament scripture, is traditionally on Saturday. The NT apostles and Jesus would have celebrated the Sabbath day on Saturday.
The commandment Remember the Sabbath day and to keep it holy was action decreed by law. Christians do not live under the law, we have been given grace because our Savior took our sins upon himself and sacrificed his life.
Charlie Kirk a follower of Jesus, observed Saturday, the Sabbath day. Gave instructions to his TPUSA organization, to not communicate with him. Charlie obeyed God's command, "Remember the sabbath day".
You are correct. The Sabbath has never changed. It has always been the 7th day and the only day declared by God to be Holy. Only God has the right and authority to declare something as Holy - man does not. The children of Israel were commanded to observe the Sabbath. Gentiles are not given such a commandment. They can if they want to, but they are not under any obligation to do so. It is a sign between the children of Israel and God. Practicing Jews still keep it to this day.
Old Testament reckoning of time did not have names for the days of the week. That was a later pagan development. The days of the week and the months were designated by numbers for the most part. The only day of the week that had a name was the 7th day - Sabbath.
When the Apostles gathered on the first day of the week together as believers, it was technically after sundown at the end of Sabbath - not Sunday morning. They were often already together to end the Sabbath as was their custom.
Start with Romans 14:5-11 These have always been arguments. Serving the lord in the best way you understand according to your conscience and you might find favor with God. Certainly not up to me or any other. When you start to judge others and they you based upon your service to God the point is lost. There are very important things to consider over these.
Romans 14:1–23
The Weak and the Strong
14 Accept the one whose faith is weak,1 without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.t 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:
“ ‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’ ”
12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.
19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.
22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemns himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
https://biblia.com/bible/niv/romans/14/1-23?ssi=0
Why not both? Days in the OT were recorded from sundown to sundown. So what we consider evening, is when a day would end, and the next would begin.
The sabbath begins sundown on Friday evening and ends sundown on Saturday evening
Party hard Friday night and sleep it off Saturday.
Kek, Jews will reeee about this one.
It was the Roman Empire that established Sunday, because of "the venerable day of the Sun" (dies Solis) dedicated to the sun god Sol Invictus.
Make sure to read these posts, they're all giving great pieces to the puzzle.
Overall the theme is absolutely correct. Arguing needlessly on minor points is a big part of the Devil's toolbox.
U/PandaMoon17 cited Titus 3:9-11, very good.
Also add 1 Timothy 6:4-5 and 2 Timothy 2:23. Annecdotally a big part of it is the 85%/15% argument. Any given protestant religion typically agrees with 85% of doctrine and typically is the most important stuff, so no big deal. The stuff disagreed upon and where people get hung up is typically 15% or less of their doctrine and or secondary issues and doesn't matter (dressing in robes, incense, wearing funny hats, singing specific songs in a certain way, the trappings of worship).
Likewise, as you've discovered, minor doctrinal issues and stuff like which day you observe kinda don't matter to most folks. Paul gave a great example of this obsession of minutiae with the eating of sacrificed food.
1 Corinthians 10:25-33 - Paul explains all food comes from God and it really isnt an issue. The issue comes from the perceptions of others, specifically in that instance, a fellow who he seems to infer is being witnessed to. The guy made a big deal about the food being offered had been sacrificed to a pagan god, so the dude had some opinions about what that did to the food. Paul doesn't want to give the wrong impression to the guy, so suggested to abstain from eating the sacrificed food.
Pauls main point from dealing with others is you want to edify and enrich their life, rather than complicate or, God forbid, cause issues with bringing them closer to salvation.
The term "when in Rome, do as the Romans do" you wouldnt participate in activities you are convicted against (orgies and vomitoriums come to mind).
Hmm... ok good example, when i was a teen i went with my dad to a pentacostal church (protistant but with catholic trappings), and they were blessing the communion and stated the cup now held the literal blood, and the bread became the literal flesh of Christ (Transubstantiation). Paraphrasing, they said all who belived were to come up and receive the communion. My dad went up but i refused, i didnt believe it literally changed, so i thought i was doing right by these weirdos.
He chastized me when driving home. I knew what was right and what God intended. It was not deception to participate, but honored their love and faith in Christ as brothers and sisters.
When we get to Heaven, we can talk about all the little silly things we thought were important.
Look at any calendar anywhere in Christendom and the days are listed in order from Sunday to Saturday-S, M, T, W, T, F, S. Most people have been led astray. Christmas trees, Easter eggs, and interest payments aren't very Christian either, come to think of it.
The Jewish Sabbath is Friday sundown to Saturday sundown.
In the Bible "Sabbath" always means the same 7th day of the continuous week, except when it's a metonym for the whole week (or when it means an ungodly corruption added to the weekly Sabbath in Is. 1:13). It's now called Friday sundown to Saturday sundown.
In the Bible the 1st day of the week has a limited separate recognition, namely twice a year it is a Mosaic festival (Firstfruits and Pentecost), it becomes a Jewish Saturday-night gathering (havdalah, Acts 20:7 ff.), it is symbolized by many covenant references to the 8th day (e.g. Tabernacles), and it is Resurrection Day and Pentecost Day for Christians as Mosaically prophesied. (Many 7th-day resters forget all this.)
The 1st day gradually, and without much documentation, moved from Saturday dusk to Sunday dawn because it was the same 1st day (both points representing the resurrection day), but Sunday dawn was easier for Gentiles who didn't have a Saturday rhythm naturally ended by a havdalah service.
Rumors that Hebrew or Roman calendars "coincide" with Babylonian are highly exaggerated. All calendars have points of agreement and disagreement, so I'd hold comment on that for specifics. Evidence is that the 7th-day weekly cycle continues uninterrupted since Creation, that Jesus honored it without making any correction to it, and that it remains unchanged today; though the Hebrew calendar has a bit of pagan naming (e.g. Tammuz), that is totally unrelated to this point.
What Constantine established was to rest on "Sunday", but treating Sunday as the 7th day happened later because the earliest Christians rightly recognized it as the 1st and 8th day. Since this rest (now called a limitation to works of piety, mercy, or necessity) is completely different from Jewish rest (a suspension of 39 categories of work related to temple-building), it's actually possible to honor both interpretations of Sabbath without contradiction.
Constantine is indeed also associated with licentious overreach (u/Sonrise2025 notes, but this wasn't his only motivation), and Hillel is indeed also associated with legalistic overreach. Avoid both extremes.
So to answer your question, many conservatives and literalists recognized that the Ten Words don't literally mean anything but the traditional 7th day and regard the church's downplay of that point to be an unnecessary allegoric spiritualization (against what u/Fubardian said). The right response to this dilemma is literally Romans 14 as u/treepainter and u/LoneWulf rightly say: One esteems day above day, another esteems every day alike, let each be fully convinced (neither judging the other). u/Rooks explicates this concept in good detail.
Resters on either day who judge resters of a different day fail Romans 14. Anger to the point of distraction, 1st day against humble 7th-day resters (like Charlie Kirk as u/Sonrise2025 rightly notes), or 7th day against humble 1st-day resters, becomes a sin. Zeal for one's position is fine but, if it cuts against "unity in essentials, liberty in nonessentials, charity in all", then it's divisive. Testing another's ceremonial practices is a nonessential when the practice is much less likely a sin than the testing itself.
Many congregations, 7th-day Baptists (largely faded), 7th-day Adventists (tens of millions), Hebrew Roots (millions), and Messianic Jews (maybe a million), etc., find 7th-day rest refreshing, beneficial, and synchronous, even as it's a challenge to develop a position given the majority church view and such congregations face infiltration from legalists. I'm a Hebrew Roots guy, sold out to Jesus, and it still took me 30 years to be able to say these things. Aside from the benefit of greatly increased appreciation for Hebrew Scripture, a great benefit is the power to share the good news of Messiah with Jewish people uncompromisingly by approaching their own culture as prophesied in Romans 11.
So permit me to apologize on behalf of divisive people, either those legalists who never meant well, or those Jesus people who haven't had the benefit of being given a harmonious solution along lines like the above. It's my job to absorb the backlash against these 7th-day resters and build bridges of understanding so that the truth will prevail and the liars will be rooted out. I trust this is understandable. God bless you too!
To u/PandaMoon17, (1) after throwing out the "spirit of Christmas" almost 30 years ago I was suddenly shocked to discover recently that Haggai and Simeon may have pinpointed the date of Jesus's conception ("nativity") as December 25, 5 BC, and the earliest Christian tradition about this date may derive directly from this point. (Links to full series.) (2) Trees mean many things, but God's first meaning for a girded tree is the Tree of Knowledge. No single forced association can undo another: to the pure all is pure. (3) Jesus (Ie-sous) and Zeus (Ze-us) have no root in common but the male suffix -us, so the English pun has zero historical value. The fish god's name was so off-point I've forgotten it, and AI doesn't know it either; closest find is Babylonian Oannes (imaginatively tied to John). (4) "Son of Man" is code for the Enochian divine figure (Peter and Jude read Enoch); similarity with pagan or Roman tradition is illusory. (5) For Sunday rest or assembly, see above; for Sunday worship, Christians worship Jesus every day. (6) Yes, Saturday, Saturn, and Satan are closely related (your closest hit), which is why I usually use "Sat", "Mar", and other abbreviations, but again to the pure all is pure.
To u/BooniesRedneck, good start. The trick is that Old Testament covenant people didn't live under the law either, they lived by faith (Hebrews 11, from Abel's animal sacrifice onward). The law was not for legalism but to reflect how the faithful, believing person responds to God's grace, all along.
The Sabbath is Saturday. The three Mary's found the empty tomb before light on Sunday, the first day of the week.
BTW, there was no "Good Friday." The Crucifixion must have occurred on Wednesday. Jesus said that there was only one real proof that He is the Messiah. That proof was that He would be in the grave for three days and three nights, the same as Jonah was in the whale three days and three nights. From Friday afternoon to Sunday morning is not three days and three nights.
The problem with "biblical" arguments is that you can almost always find a scripture that agrees with your point of view and one that agrees with the other persons point of view.
Ironically there is even a scripture verse that brings this issue up and advises against it
Titus 3:9-11
9But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. 10As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, 11knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.
Although, I do think that in our modern day the main reason for arguing about the bible is to make people realize that it is mostly pointless to argue about the bible and that It will inevitably become a troll fest. You see the same kind of thing with Q drop arguments. For a simple example: people will argue saying one Q drop says this or that and then the other person will counter by saying "Well Q did says disinformation is necessary." and on and on.....At the end of the day when we talk like this it just wastes everyone time and energy and the only thing we learn is that we can't really be totally sure about anything when we filter our thinking through one book or another.