I know a lot of people here want to dump NATO, but I want Trump to maximize the leverage from it. If you want to do the numbers correctly, you have to look at what we spent/spend versus what we would have spent. The bulk of our spending still would have existed either way. In the early years, it was a little cheaper for us because the other countries contributed money to the effort that we didn’t have. Lately, we continue to have forward basing. If we didn’t have that, we would need a lot more very expensive bombers and tankers. So NATO has been a net savings for the US. My argument is that they could be a significantly larger savings for the US and they could handle some of the smaller challenges so we don’t have to.
Remember when Europe wanted to be a superpower that rivaled the US. 🤣🤣🤣
That may be, but the bulk of our defense spending gets used on supplies and materiel going to NATO to help fund and equip the other NATO members. They get to pay a fraction of what DOD/DOW pays for the same items.
61% of taxpayer burden is no laughing matter. How many Senators, Reps, Presidents, bureaucrats, and corporatists here in the U.S. benefited from that? That 61% could've gone to other programs and things that would've truly benefited the American People instead of Europeans that look down on us with disdain and contempt.
$22 Trillion USD could've done a helluva lot more good for the world if spent properly than to see it wasted on the weak, cowardly, and corrupt. That's what this is all about, isn't it? Changing the world for the better?
If the Soviet Union and China were not trying to turn the world into their communist bitches, we could have saved a whole bunch of money. So it is really a false choice. One of the things that pisses me off is that we should be getting a lot more for our money. Way too much overhead and way too many failures to deliver what was promised.
I agree. We need those forward operating assets. However, hostile countries, like Spain for example, we should get the hell out. Agree to have assets in European countries that are willing to partner with us like we do with other countries outside of Europe. But, I think we can do something that doesn't involve existing NATO framework. Less chance of getting dragged into something someone else starts because of Article 5 - which has been played with by some after the Ukraine scam started.
I agree that bi-lateral is the way to go and I think Trump might have that in view. Multi-lateral collectives may sound good at first, but in the long run they are just too messy for the US. Too easy to be blackmailed by the bottom feeders if they decide to band together.
Take back any bonds that they may hold. After we shut down the NATO bases, take any European assets that we can get our hands on. I would like to see the Mona Lisa on display in the US.
IN MY VIEW, NATO is already dead. BUT I have a gut feel that American forces in Europe might have to help return so many illegal immigrants to where they came from. A GREAT departing gesture. "We have cleaned up your MESS and we are over and out."
I know a lot of people here want to dump NATO, but I want Trump to maximize the leverage from it. If you want to do the numbers correctly, you have to look at what we spent/spend versus what we would have spent. The bulk of our spending still would have existed either way. In the early years, it was a little cheaper for us because the other countries contributed money to the effort that we didn’t have. Lately, we continue to have forward basing. If we didn’t have that, we would need a lot more very expensive bombers and tankers. So NATO has been a net savings for the US. My argument is that they could be a significantly larger savings for the US and they could handle some of the smaller challenges so we don’t have to.
Remember when Europe wanted to be a superpower that rivaled the US. 🤣🤣🤣
That may be, but the bulk of our defense spending gets used on supplies and materiel going to NATO to help fund and equip the other NATO members. They get to pay a fraction of what DOD/DOW pays for the same items.
61% of taxpayer burden is no laughing matter. How many Senators, Reps, Presidents, bureaucrats, and corporatists here in the U.S. benefited from that? That 61% could've gone to other programs and things that would've truly benefited the American People instead of Europeans that look down on us with disdain and contempt.
$22 Trillion USD could've done a helluva lot more good for the world if spent properly than to see it wasted on the weak, cowardly, and corrupt. That's what this is all about, isn't it? Changing the world for the better?
If the Soviet Union and China were not trying to turn the world into their communist bitches, we could have saved a whole bunch of money. So it is really a false choice. One of the things that pisses me off is that we should be getting a lot more for our money. Way too much overhead and way too many failures to deliver what was promised.
I agree. We need those forward operating assets. However, hostile countries, like Spain for example, we should get the hell out. Agree to have assets in European countries that are willing to partner with us like we do with other countries outside of Europe. But, I think we can do something that doesn't involve existing NATO framework. Less chance of getting dragged into something someone else starts because of Article 5 - which has been played with by some after the Ukraine scam started.
Personally, I only like bi-lateral agreements instead of multi-lateral organizations where you can get out voted.
I agree that bi-lateral is the way to go and I think Trump might have that in view. Multi-lateral collectives may sound good at first, but in the long run they are just too messy for the US. Too easy to be blackmailed by the bottom feeders if they decide to band together.
Let's figure out a way to claw back those funds. Tariff increase, anybody?
Or nationalize everything Europeans own in the USA.
Take back any bonds that they may hold. After we shut down the NATO bases, take any European assets that we can get our hands on. I would like to see the Mona Lisa on display in the US.
IN MY VIEW, NATO is already dead. BUT I have a gut feel that American forces in Europe might have to help return so many illegal immigrants to where they came from. A GREAT departing gesture. "We have cleaned up your MESS and we are over and out."
But NATO denies USA of airspace travel and that doesn't cost anything.