God cleans His house as He sees fit.

1500 years of Christians weren't really Christian, I guess. You've really got it all figured out all these years later, huh? Not that you even believe any of the same things the first Protestants did, since it changes so often.

I can certainly promise to always try to do better. I'm already so much better now than I was before I became a Protestant. Becoming Catholic only heaped on more improvements from there. God truly does wonders.

And while that's always the sense I got, you've gotten an awful lot of downvotes and my comments seems to be favored here. Not that votes matter, but it is interesting since it seems opposite what I'd usually expect regarding a discussion on Catholicism here. To be fair, I have noticed that we have a good few Catholic users in some threads. I'm pretty sure there exists a decent contingent of us that just usually don't make that explicitly clear unless someone goes after the Church. And even then, sometimes it's just easier to not cause even more division than there already is. Infighting helps no one.

Also, very insightful, that makes a lot of sense. Damned if you do and damned if you don't I suppose, kek.

Thanks again for the apology, I appreciate it and all is good. Props for the self-reflection as well. In my experience, most people would just stop responding rather than think about their side or admit to doing anything wrong. I often feel like I stand somewhat alone in being willing to do that, at least online. I really do try to be as fair as possible, though sometimes I do better than other times, of course.

And as for my 'missionaries' take, well I'd much rather it be interesting than expected/predictable ;)

Has he been like this for years?

Admittedly, I don't watch the idiot if I can avoid it, but he seemed extra atrocious last night.

If he had a cold before, he must have full-blown COVI- I mean something far worse than the cold now.

Demon hopped in just in time to be extricated by Biden's incontinence.

I'd almost feel bad for it and if it wasn't a demon kek

So God didn't keep His promise that the Gates of Hell will not prevail against His Church? And are we not all Christ's sheep, with His Church as our shepherds?

To call the Pope a heretic is the opposite of the tradition for which the Church stands, and is wholly uncatholic.

And I'd propose that the very press used to discredit Catholicism is used against the Pope. He's said his fair share of incredibly based, and incredibly anti-establishment things. It's just never reported on, since they're too busy claiming he's pro gay for saying some shit like "don't murder gay people".

If the Pope is evil, why does he compare trans to nuclear bombs? Why does he consistently say things that affirm Catholic doctrine and fly in the face of Satan's agenda? Why does he never say anything that's actually against Catholic doctrine?

Sure, it's simple to just call him a liar, but what can the tiny little Vatican do if it actually opposes the powers at work in our world? Such a hand wave completely ignores the complex politics that are at play.

Ultimately, to personally declare that the Pope is evil, is to be a protestant. It's no different. You are elevating yourself above the leaders of the Church because you view your own personal interpretation of events and your own views as being more valid than the views of those who are to shepherd us. It's the same lack of faith in God to preserve His Church, it's just veiled behind some machinations of a shadow church and a false Pope, as if that doesn't just establish that the Church has fallen to begin with.

Also, the laity is the hierarchy. The bottom of it, to be precise. The same kind of thinking that gave us Protestantism and rebellion from tradition is what gives people this idea that the masses are somehow above their teachers. It's an inversion of the system that God imposed.

We are supposed to trust and follow our teachers, since they are the ones God has entrusted to teach us and lead to us. To not trust them, is to not trust God. To pick and choose who you listen to based on whether or not they disparage the Supreme Pontiff (i.e. whether or not they agree with what you already believe), is to really just make yourself your own god, just like Protestants do.

And personally, I feel pretty well represented when the Pope says trannies are nukes and that "there is an air of faggotness in the Vatican". I don't agree on climate change, but I also don't make it a point to call him a heretic for going off the information he is given on that one. Trump's not a climate scientist, and neither is the Pope.

The alternative is mass crime and no effective way to deal with it. Just like in our cities today.

The problem is not mass imprisonment, it's mass imprisonment of innocent people. And while there's no way to fully prevent the latter if you enable the government to do the former, what's the alternative? Neuter the state and let crime run rampant? That doesn't seem to be working out well for the big cities.

I suppose one could argue that it'd work if the culture in the cities wasn't so shit these days. But until such a time as the culture improves, crime will rein if we curtail the ability of our police to do their jobs efficiently and effectively.

For real.

I was expecting him to at least have some pep in his step at first, due to being pumped up, but he came out half-dead and ended three-quarters dead so I guess the shit never kicked in lol

There was one moment where he quite literally appeared to be posessed, stood up straight, face doing all manner of contortions, and he looked like his energy had returned, but the demon must have been unable to sustain it because he went back to normal before Trump could even finish talking.

The irony is that Trump is himself a big lib on abortions and LGBT.

He's just not an extreme left-wing radical on the issues like these people want him to be.

He's had worse blunders, sure, but he's also seemed much more alive in the last 4 years.

He seemed ready to drop dead any second through the whole debate. Absolutely no energy and barely conscious.

I can accept that.

I did go off on that little conspiracy about you being disingenuous or a Satanic Temple member lol. As well as assume that you were pushing some hard anti-Catholic line.

This one, despite the happy ending, stings a little because of just how wrong I was in some of my (mean-spirited) assumptions. Definitely a lesson for the future.

Ah, the sweet relief of reconciliation.

This is what I meant by that. Was hoping we could come to some understanding. I appreciate the apology.

And I suppose I could have been a bit nicer. Sorry if I was a bit too hard-nosed here. On the one hand, I don't want to bend over when I don't feel I'm the one who made the error, but on the other hand, I don't want to be a domineering asshole who gives no leeway and acts all self-righteous over other people making mistakes while not acknowledging his own.

Now frankly, it wasn't really a big mistake, it just made the difference in this case for how I think the comment comes across. I'm not too bent out of shape over it, if I gave off that impression. Just a minor spraying of shit, a dusting if you will... kek

And I have to say, I feel kind of bad now. I also usually try to put in that extra effort to avoid trivial arguments over how I word something, and now I'm the one starting the, one could argue, trivial argument.

And my case is somewhat the opposite, I guess. When I do see people mention Catholicism here, it's usually some kind of dig, so I am admittedly a bit on edge.

I kind of feel a bit of a fool, as well, to be honest. I'm sure it wasn't all your typo that got my defenses up, if I'm being fair.

Also, I responded to the missionary question. Really liked that question. I usually don't feel like I ever have to think twice about my positions (that's the ego), but with that one and the prior response I did. So thanks for supplying me with some intellectual stimulation :).

Yet another reason I mentioned reconciling. While I felt compelled to defend the Church due to our prior complications, I still prefer the more intellectual kinds of discussions versus the arguments.

That was to be taken as an assessment of how your comment was written, rather than intended.

I see now you didn't intend it, hence my last sentence saying "what appeared to be". Also why in my other comment I already said all this. I see now that you simply meant to list them out, and I'm quite sure that's how I would have interpreted it if you had added "scandal".

Also, the notion that there are a shit ton of Protestant religious leader pedophiles is equally false. I would also bet on that one being below the average rate as well.

By the way, you should really stop responding to the caricature of me you have in your head and actually respond to me. I meant it when I said I was fair, but you're too busy trying to contort the discussion in a way to try and prove I'm not, instead of just letting me show that I am.

Another fair point. You are getting to a deeper truth that I haven't really been thinking of here since I'm trying to play this "equality" game.

I want my religion to win because I believe it's correct. I frankly would not care if it were illegal to convert people away from my religion in my own country. Other countries can do the same for theirs. I'd prefer if they didn't, but I have no control over that, so it hardly matters.

We're not called to live a comfy life and convert people in peace, we're called to suffering. So if that means missionaries have to go to a hostile country and fight for the truth under threat of persecution, so be it. It's not some great injustice if another country does the same thing ours does (well, maybe from a spiritual perspective, but still).

As for war, a war that isn't for self-defense isn't just. And it's not self-defense to wage a holy war just to convert people.

The only thing I misread was the other guy's comment.

Maybe I read some stuff into your later comments.

I certainly read your first comment properly.

I will not be chastised for your mistake. A mistake which is not that benign, despite being one missing word. What the wording you used insinuates is far different than if you added the extra word.

And the reason I'm kind of suspect at how genuine you are, is because you have straw manned me in almost every reply. For example, I never said I'm ok with you shitting on other people's religions. I certainly wouldn't be ok with you accusing any religion of all being pedophiles. I also never suggested mine get preferential treatment.

And from my perspective reading your comment how you wrote it, and then mulling it over briefly before responding, I appear to have been shat on. Though you didn't mean it, I suppose, so no harm no foul.

Do you have trouble reading, or are you skimming? I do write a lot, but nowhere in there did I say you said that.

What I did point out is that the only way to read your comment is this: you're singling out Catholic as separate from Christian, and then hyperbolically claiming the whole Catholic Church are pedophiles. That can only mean you're insinuating a higher rate among Catholics.

If you said "the entire Catholic Church scandal" or even "Church thing" it could be read as just making a list, but you left that bit off, and I can't read your mind.

I even debated your meaning, and did a double take at the wording. When I realized it flat out said "entire Catholic Church", I came to the quite rational conclusion that you were making a dig towards Catholics for having a uniquely bad pedo problem.

That was my only problem. Your comment was disproportionately pointed at Catholics, and of course I am one, so that hits a little deeper. Though, being the exceptionally fair (and egotistical) person I am, I very likely would have also said something had you said all Protestants are pedos. That is false too.

The rest of your comment I thought was perfectly fair and reasonable, I was just peeved at what appeared to be your inability to keep your bias against Catholics out of it.

Forgot to add: and no, I'm not denying that they've been less than truthful with the scandal, unfortunately. They're in a hard place, but lying about it doesn't help.

Take your straw man and shove it up your ass, dude. My patience for that shit is wearing thin, and that isn't the first time you've done it.

I'm frankly not quite sure if I believe you, but if you did indeed intend to put scandal, we disagree on pretty much nothing here and this has been mostly a misunderstanding. My only disagreement was with you claiming that the rate of pedo priests is higher than average, which is in my view the only way to properly understand what you wrote.

If you did mean to put scandal, the door is opened up to the option that you were simply listing all the places the pedo shit happens (i.e. everywhere) and didn't intend to imply any one being worse than the other.

Not a human death penalty as this crime is not lawfully codifiable. How many genocidal maniacs have operated their crime syndicates under such a banner??

Fair enough, and I'd agree. I did ask it as a question, I wasn't totally sure, however I find your answer satisfying.

Indeed, and at that stage they have stepped outside of God's grace and entered into the realm of national laws; or else tell me a crime they are guilty of which is not already codified against?

This is the problem, it's not illegal to convert someone if they are a willing participant. So what do we do? Are we supposed to just sit back and watch as the Great Deceiver works his evil in the world? Impose no structure or order? Freedom at all costs? Even at the cost of our brother's souls? Sure, we can fight them in debate, but if something as simple as making it illegal to talk about Satan saved even 10 souls, is that not worth it? Free speech is obviously important, but what's the point of it all from the Christian perspective if we as a society at large are just on a fast-track to Hell?

Further, to cause someone to fall out of God's graces is murder. And my personal view is that people are so preoccupied with the material world that they forget the spiritual reality. How is it worse to kill someone and send them to heaven as opposed to dooming someone to Hell through coordinated effort?

And what is the purpose of having a society at all if not to do what is moral and just? To order ourselves towards God? Freedom used to meaning doing what we ought to do, but now it just means doing whatever we want to do. These days, I see no reason that the latter should be accepted and why we should impose some order in society with a strong religious foundation. We've been trying liberal democracy since the Enlightenment, but all that I can see is the darkening of everything for the last 300 years. Dimmer and dimmer as the years go on.

Thank you, I'll check this out. I am fairly new to the revelation of who Mystery Babylon is and what her daughters look like, so I appreciate these debates and new info. It'll either confirm or deny things I'm trying to piece together. Godbless. I'll get back to you 👊

I appreciate this greatly. I'm always afraid I'll just get the usual response when I link to something that the site is just "some Catholic confirmation bias that tells you what to think", hence why I explained the site so much even though I just found it.

Very nice change of pace to see that someone is actually willing to give an opposing theology a fair shot.

God bless, and I await your reply :)

Based on both responses here, I'd wager the answer to my question is "no".

Don't see a way to actually make this work and not simply be a morally reprehensible disaster.

But there needs to be some give, and to be clear, this isn't some idealized dIvErSe community where religion A and religion One are living together in equal numbers. Most country have a majority religion, and it usually isn't close. Ours certainly does. Diversity doesn't work when it's diversity of "basic world-views" and should be avoided. Though I still concede that execution was likely a tad bit of an extreme suggestion.

And my take on this is that the Bible is completely correct on a deep philosophical level when it states that there's nothing new under the sun. Holy wars won't go away, and I don't necessarily see why they should. War is bad and should be avoided, but if Religion A wants to invade and convert the lands and people of Religion One, self-defense should be permitted.

The real solution is to not mass import people of different religions, and to not have so much societal decay that everyone becomes an Atheist. Then you don't lead to the inevitable holy war.

May have misread him, and may have been thinking about some of what we later discussed that he likely didn't read.

He only replied to my admittedly lazy whataboutist comment. I still stand by it, of course, but I could have been clearer and gone into more detail with that one.

I was thinking he was saying he was a former Catholic who left because of the pedo priests, but I suppose I simply made that up.

Certainly, the sin of scandal is significant.

But it's by some numbers not above average. It's likely not as clear-cut as either of us want it to be.

And you're also right that the evil one seeks to infiltrate anything he can. But I'd argue that the common factor in all institutions is their eventual fall as of result of him... all institutions, that is, except the Catholic Church. The Gates of Hell have not prevailed yet, and I'd wager based on precedents that they won't be any time soon... or ever.

You know exactly what you said that is not true:

"Because I'm pretty sure there's been a pedophile a time or two amongst members of pretty much every denomination of Christianity. And then you have the entire Catholic Church, of course."

You make a special point to shit on Catholics separate from Protestants in most of your replies.

And while you obviously were exaggerating, everybody here knows you meant to insinuate that the Catholic Church has much higher rates. That it is an issue unique to the Roman Catholic Church.

In reality, you have nothing and your claim is false. In addition, you can't or won't defend any of your other statements, all of which I have responded to in full. I've thrown in plenty of opening to reconcile and come to some middle ground, but if you don't want to bite, then you can take your feelings and keep on asking them what to respond with next.

Many liberals claim that Joe has a fully functioning brain, but the reality of that situation is quite clear. Seriously, what is this "these Christians over here say this" bullshit you're trying to play lol

And no, people should at least dislike (I don't like the word hate, it's too strong) the Satanic Temple for one or both of the following reasons:

1. They worship Satan in a roundabout way as a result of worshiping the self. And frankly, they invite demons into their midst every time they blink, and most are probably demonically oppressed if not possessed.

2. They're a bunch of Atheist losers who think they're better than people who believe in God. They don't care about hypocrisy, that's just what they hide behind to stop everyone from hating them as a result of them being total assholes to people who they view as inferior to themselves. They have zero interest in common ground and only seek to incite people to be worse versions of themselves. If that's not true Satanism, I don't know what is.

And again, this bears repeating: one can not worship Satan as a troll. One can not indulge in demonic imagery and be demon free. One can not call themselves "the Satanic Temple" and not be evil. It's a precondition for even thinking to do such a thing.

Then again, we're all evil as we all sin. Christians are the only ones who recognize that, and that one transcends Catholic vs Protestant. Though I'd not-so-humbly point out that I am personally much less evil than your average Satanic Temple memer.

Ignorance is not an excuse for evil, and it is nothing short of evil to use evil incarnate as your figurehead, whether or not you think Mr. Evil Incarnate is real or not.

Also, you've made my point in every comment thus far, I think. You hate the Catholic Church uniquely, and it has nothing to do with "muh pedo priests". You take every opportunity to uniquely disparage it.

You frankly are starting to make me think you are a member of the Satanic Temple with how hard you're simping for them while doing the exact same shit you're asserting that they would do.

Finally, "muh Christian hypocrisy" is, similar to 'muh pedo priests', total bullshit. Though, it's not like an atheist would ever know because they're too busy listening to themselves talk to ever consider what a Christian has to say or how a Christian would justify their positions. This is the Satanic Temple in a nutshell; they troll the straw man in their head, not actual Christians.

A holy war of grand proportions!

Though, hopefully tensions die down and it just turns in to a bog-standard dispute among quibbling frens :)